Was the PJ's biggest mistake not testing the twins straight away?

[Brietta]

How would you know if the mccanns had administered any drugs to their children ?

As to 'mistakes', that is an opinion, as is your opinion of Amaral.

By the same tone, I view the mccanns as being highly arrogant. Again, my view.

I am aware that the drugs lovingly caressed by the Levy camera lens were Mr Healey's and had not even been present in Portugal at the time of Madeleine's disappearance.

Madeleine and the twins had no access to their father's anti-histamine medication.

The Calpol brought to Portugal is not a knock-out drug it is a mild analgesic.

What substances do you suggest may have been used to drug Madeleine and the twins?

"Mistake ~ twins ~ testing ~ PJ" ... all make their appearance in the thread title.  That the failure to test the twins was a mistake is verified by none other than the co-ordinator of the case himself ... so if you wish to denigrate a statement from that source ... it is entirely a matter for you.

[G-Unit]

Brietta says;

Madeleine and the twins had no access to their father's anti-histamine medication.

How does she know it was their father's medicine? I have wondered who had hay fever.

[mercury]

I am aware that the drugs lovingly caressed by the Levy camera lens were Mr Healey's and had not even been present in Portugal at the time of Madeleine's disappearance.

Madeleine and the twins had no access to their father's anti-histamine medication.

The Calpol brought to Portugal is not a knock-out drug it is a mild analgesic.

What substances do you suggest may have been used to drug Madeleine and the twins?

"Mistake ~ twins ~ testing ~ PJ" ... all make their appearance in the thread title.  That the failure to test the twins was a mistake is verified by none other than the co-ordinator of the case himself ... so if you wish to denigrate a statement from that source ... it is entirely a matter for you.

How can you be aware of something that never happened?

 &%+((£

If you think the journalist Levy was filming the police investigation, then present your evidence.

[Brietta]

How can you be aware of something that never happened?

 &%+((£

If you think the journalist Levy was filming the police investigation, then present your evidence.

If Levy was not filming the police investigation ... why did he apparently 'own' the copyright to the videos?

**Snip
Thanks to Duarte Levy for providing these extended video versions of Eddie and Keela in action.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id167.html

[mercury]

If Levy was not filming the police investigation ... why did he apparently 'own' the copyright to the videos?

**Snip
Thanks to Duarte Levy for providing these extended video versions of Eddie and Keela in action.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id167.html

Just because he put "copyright" on his version, its a bit of a leap to think the PJ and the LP employed him, a journalist, a civilian, to film a police operation.

The dog searches took around 4+ hours, all filmed, Levy edited the police video to show only mainly where the dogs alerted. IMO!
And as such felt he could stamp copyright on.

Eta: Besides his name appears nowhere in the files as a participant nor can he be seen

[G-Unit]

If Levy was not filming the police investigation ... why did he apparently 'own' the copyright to the videos?

**Snip
Thanks to Duarte Levy for providing these extended video versions of Eddie and Keela in action.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id167.html

I think 'providing' and 'filming' are two different things. Did the guy get his hands on the official videos (or copies of them) and release them?

[Mr Gray]

Just because he put "copyright" on his version, its a bit of a leap to think the PJ and the LP employed him, a journalist, a civilian, to film a police operation.

The dog searches took around 4+ hours, all filmed, Levy edited the police video to show only mainly where the dogs alerted. IMO!
And as such felt he could stamp copyright on.

they "employed "murat as an interpreter.....it begs the question...how did he get hold of the videos...perhaps he did film them...we don't know. What we do know is he edited them...and did not show the dogs being brought back several times to places they had failed to alert to....before they eventually alerted

[Brietta]

Just because he put "copyright" on his version, its a bit of a leap to think the PJ and the LP employed him, a journalist, a civilian, to film a police operation.

The dog searches took around 4+ hours, all filmed, Levy edited the police video to show only mainly where the dogs alerted. IMO!
And as such felt he could stamp copyright on.

Eta: Besides his name appears nowhere in the files as a participant nor can he be seen

The Senior Investigating Officer was convinced enough by the videos showing Eddie and Keela performing in Praia da Luz to contract Martin Grime to the investigation into Haut de la Garenne children's home in Jersey.

Madeleine McCann's case had not been archived at this time and was still subject to judicial secrecy.

Editing a video does not give ownership nor the right to claim copyright of it.

If the Jersey viewing is anything to go by, the video was circulating in the public domain prior to the release of the DVDs containing the case files.

??? just another little mystery among the many in the McCann case which made elementary mistakes such as failing to check the twins ???
Take it from me or not as you wish because I'm not looking through the videos to find it again ... there is one shot in the McCann bedroom, I think, where a second camera operator appears in shot.
In my opinion that would be the official PJ camera person the other a man of mystery.

[mercury]

The Senior Investigating Officer was convinced enough by the videos showing Eddie and Keela performing in Praia da Luz to contract Martin Grime to the investigation into Haut de la Garenne children's home in Jersey.

Madeleine McCann's case had not been archived at this time and was still subject to judicial secrecy.

Editing a video does not give ownership nor the right to claim copyright of it.

If the Jersey viewing is anything to go by, the video was circulating in the public domain prior to the release of the DVDs containing the case files.

??? just another little mystery among the many in the McCann case which made elementary mistakes such as failing to check the twins ???
Take it from me or not as you wish because I'm not looking through the videos to find it again ... there is one shot in the McCann bedroom, I think, where a second camera operator appears in shot.
In my opinion that would be the official PJ camera person the other a man of mystery.

You dont know what Grime showed Harper, neither do you know the video was in the "public domain" early 2008, showing a policeman ones work doesnt constitute being in the public domain.... neither do you know if there was a "mystery man" filming in PDL as well ....could have been two police officers with cameras...makes sense to have a back up in case something went wrong....videoing from a different angle...who knows......so much speculation and no evidence whatsoever Levy was there

[G-Unit]

You dont know what Grime showed Harper, neither do you know the video was in the "public domain" early 2008, showing a policeman ones work doesnt constitute being in the public domain.... neither do you know if there was a "mystery man" filming in PDL as well ....could have been two police officers with cameras...makes sense to have a back up in case something went wrong....videoing from a different angle...who knows......so much speculation and no evidence whatsoever Levy was there

Obviously the PJ filmed the process. I would expect Grime and Harrison to want a record of the dogs working too. Grime must have known he was retiring when he returned to the UK, so I expect he had a film taken for his own use. That would be the one he showed in Jersey.

Not that this has anything to do with the question of testing for sedation (or not, as it turned out). Anyone got a reason why the PJ may have considered it on 3rd/4th? Leaving aside Amaral's claim (made with hindsight) in his book.

[Brietta]

You dont know what Grime showed Harper, neither do you know the video was in the "public domain" early 2008, showing a policeman ones work doesnt constitute being in the public domain.... neither do you know if there was a "mystery man" filming in PDL as well ....could have been two police officers with cameras...makes sense to have a back up in case something went wrong....videoing from a different angle...who knows......so much speculation and no evidence whatsoever Levy was there

Where did I say "Levy was there"?

I don't think you are quite grasping this judicial secrecy thingy.

We are talking evidence in an active case being bandied about by a contractor to an officer in a foreign police force ... think about the implication of that for a minute.

I neither care who filmed the official version ... nor do I give two hoots about Levy apart from the career he managed to carve out for himself  by exploiting the case of a missing child.
Or if what his opinion was on the PJ neglecting to have the twins tested immediately, because if he had one it would surely be the wrong one.

I can't be bothered ploughing through Operation Haven yet again for the actual report.  You can if you feel like it.  In the interim I do hope the Mail won't upset your sensibilities and if my **Snip gives you the vapours ... so be it.

**Snip
As the emails to Coupland demonstrate, at first Harper displayed a healthy scepticism. So what made him change his mind? According to a senior detective who worked on Harper's team, one factor was sniffer dog Eddie's handler, Martin Grime.
'Grime made a presentation, showing him [Harper] a video of the dog finding the "scent of death" in Kate and Gerry McCann's car,' the detective said.
'They were still formal suspects and the case had got worldwide publicity. It seemed to get Lenny very excited. I think Grime kind of bewitched him.'
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1217863/Bungled-Jersey-child-abuse-probe-branded-20million-shambles.html#ixzz3xLh6yyVl


So I am afraid you have it wrong.
I know exactly what was shown to Lenny Harper, because I read Operation Haven.

[Mr Gray]

So Grime used the PDL videos to showcase the dog's skills......what an absolute conflict of interest

[pathfinder73]

Where did I say "Levy was there"?

I don't think you are quite grasping this judicial secrecy thingy.

We are talking evidence in an active case being bandied about by a contractor to an officer in a foreign police force ... think about the implication of that for a minute.

I neither care who filmed the official version ... nor do I give two hoots about Levy apart from the career he managed to carve out for himself  by exploiting the case of a missing child.
Or if what his opinion was on the PJ neglecting to have the twins tested immediately, because if he had one it would surely be the wrong one.

I can't be bothered ploughing through Operation Haven yet again for the actual report.  You can if you feel like it.  In the interim I do hope the Mail won't upset your sensibilities and if my **Snip gives you the vapours ... so be it.

**Snip
As the emails to Coupland demonstrate, at first Harper displayed a healthy scepticism. So what made him change his mind? According to a senior detective who worked on Harper's team, one factor was sniffer dog Eddie's handler, Martin Grime.
'Grime made a presentation, showing him [Harper] a video of the dog finding the "scent of death" in Kate and Gerry McCann's car,' the detective said.
'They were still formal suspects and the case had got worldwide publicity. It seemed to get Lenny very excited. I think Grime kind of bewitched him.'
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1217863/Bungled-Jersey-child-abuse-probe-branded-20million-shambles.html#ixzz3xLh6yyVl


So I am afraid you have it wrong.
I know exactly what was shown to Lenny Harper, because I read Operation Haven.

#600 I am aware that the drugs lovingly caressed by the Levy camera lens were Mr Healey's.

From your post. How was it Levy's camera?

[slartibartfast]

So Grime used the PDL videos to showcase the dog's skills......what an absolute conflict of interest

Why?

[mercury]

Where did I say "Levy was there"?

I don't think you are quite grasping this judicial secrecy thingy.

We are talking evidence in an active case being bandied about by a contractor to an officer in a foreign police force ... think about the implication of that for a minute.

Where? Thats the impression you gave when you typed

"I am aware that the drugs lovingly caressed by the Levy camera lens "

"If Levy was not filming the police investigation ... why did he apparently 'own' the copyright to the videos?"

As for Grime, wrong, he was not a contractor to a foreign police force...he was a serving uk police officer at the time . Neither did he "band about" anything...if he had "banded about" the PDL dog videos they would have been in the papers or elsewhere months and months before the case archiving. I am fairly positive he mayl have signed something limiting his usage of said recordings and as a seasoned professional, and working closey on the case with Harrison, that may not even have been necessary!

Stop all the hyperbole and outrage and lets get back on topic, sorry GU