Was the PJ's biggest mistake not testing the twins straight away?

[Alfred R Jones]

I should have added to my previous post that no-one investigated and eliminated this man from the Madeleine McCann investigation.

The Portuguese did not despite the Swiss contact via Interpol ~ for the reasons I have outlined.

The Swiss did not ... Madeleine's case was not in their jurisdiction.

Scotland Yard did not ... it was also out with their jurisdiction until they were tasked with reviewing Madeleine's case.

So please refrain from attempting to put me down with suggestions such as you think I am "clutching at straws".

I have made absolutely no suggestion that this man is connected to Madeleine's disappearance.

I am in accord with the Swiss police and Interpol who thought he should be investigated ... perhaps your "clutching at straws" jibe would be better directed at them.

Well said.

[stephen25000]

I should have added to my previous post that no-one investigated and eliminated this man from the Madeleine McCann investigation.

The Portuguese did not despite the Swiss contact via Interpol ~ for the reasons I have outlined.

The Swiss did not ... Madeleine's case was not in their jurisdiction.

Scotland Yard did not ... it was also out with their jurisdiction until they were tasked with reviewing Madeleine's case.

So please refrain from attempting to put me down with suggestions such as you think I am "clutching at straws".

I have made absolutely no suggestion that this man is connected to Madeleine's disappearance.

I am in accord with the Swiss police and Interpol who thought he should be investigated ... perhaps your "clutching at straws" jibe would be better directed at them.

Yet you mention it.

Your intention is clear.

If this man was of real interest, he would have been traced.

[G-Unit]

No evidence has been offered to show the PJ suspected sedation of the twins early in the investigation, so it's difficult to accuse them of failing to test them.

We have evidence that the parents were concerned; 'very' concerned according to their mother. Her failure to act could have had disastrous consequences if the twins had been given some unknown substance to make them sleep.

If the children were sedated the blame lies squarely on the parents for failing to alert the authorities and for failing to have them medically checked at the time. Trying to wake them would have been a 'common sense' starting point....but no-one even did that.

Expanding the discussion to bring in a 'suspect' and accusing the PJ of failing to investigate him has nothing at all to do with sedation of the twins, it's just 'another stick to beat the PJ with imo'.

[Lace]

No evidence has been offered to show the PJ suspected sedation of the twins early in the investigation, so it's difficult to accuse them of failing to test them.

We have evidence that the parents were concerned; 'very' concerned according to their mother. Her failure to act could have had disastrous consequences if the twins had been given some unknown substance to make them sleep.

If the children were sedated the blame lies squarely on the parents for failing to alert the authorities and for failing to have them medically checked at the time. Trying to wake them would have been a 'common sense' starting point....but no-one even did that.

Expanding the discussion to bring in a 'suspect' and accusing the PJ of failing to investigate him has nothing at all to do with sedation of the twins, it's just 'another stick to beat the PJ with imo'.

I am confused now G-Unit,   you say there is no evidence that the PJ suspected sedation of the twins early in the investigation.

Yet Amaral as we know wrote about testing the twins, but thought better of it as in his words 'the would be trial by public'.    So when did he suspect sedation?   It must have been before the three months were up as he mocked the McCann's requesting a test done at that time,  so when was it?   If it was before the McCann's requested the test he must have known about the twins sleeping through the uproar mustn't he?

[slartibartfast]

I should have added to my previous post that no-one investigated and eliminated this man from the Madeleine McCann investigation.

The Portuguese did not despite the Swiss contact via Interpol ~ for the reasons I have outlined.

The Swiss did not ... Madeleine's case was not in their jurisdiction.

Scotland Yard did not ... it was also out with their jurisdiction until they were tasked with reviewing Madeleine's case.

So please refrain from attempting to put me down with suggestions such as you think I am "clutching at straws".

I have made absolutely no suggestion that this man is connected to Madeleine's disappearance.

I am in accord with the Swiss police and Interpol who thought he should be investigated ... perhaps your "clutching at straws" jibe would be better directed at them.

On the 7 May 2013 it was reported that Scotland Yard officers, as part on their ongoing review, had travelled to St Gallen to investigate possible links between the two crimes. Hanspeter Krüsi, spokesman for the Swiss police, stated, that after the investigation no links could be established between the two cases, and this is what was communicated to Scotland Yard.[7]

Talk about any suspect will do.

[G-Unit]

I am confused now G-Unit,   you say there is no evidence that the PJ suspected sedation of the twins early in the investigation.

Yet Amaral as we know wrote about testing the twins, but thought better of it as in his words 'the would be trial by public'.    So when did he suspect sedation?   It must have been before the three months were up as he mocked the McCann's requesting a test done at that time,  so when was it?   If it was before the McCann's requested the test he must have known about the twins sleeping through the uproar mustn't he?

In his 'book of lies' you mean? There is no evidence in the official records of the investigation that sedation was mentioned or suspected at the beginning, although Madleine's pillow was examined. That could have been due process, there's no record of the Crime squad being asked specifically to test the pillow.

[Benice]

In his 'book of lies' you mean? There is no evidence in the official records of the investigation that sedation was mentioned or suspected at the beginning, although Madleine's pillow was examined. That could have been due process, there's no record of the Crime squad being asked specifically to test the pillow.

I'm at a loss to understand why you don't consider the FLO's statement, which is in the files, as proof that the question of possible drug use was raised by the McCanns with the PJ via that FLO.

[Alice Purjorick]

Talk about any suspect will do.

"Straw Man" in "The Janet & John Book of Propaganda Techniques" I believe.

[faithlilly]

I'm at a loss to understand why you don't consider the FLO's statement, which is in the files, as proof that the question of possible drug use was raised by the McCanns with the PJ via that FLO.

Did the FLO pass the enquiry to the PJ ? Have we any evidence of that ?

[Benice]

Did the FLO pass the enquiry to the PJ ? Have we any evidence of that ?

I doubt that a FLO would mention the request from the McCanns in an official statement - if they had not passed it on.

IMO it is more likely that it was passed on but no response was received.   There is no evidence to suggest that their request was taken any further AFAIK.

[faithlilly]

I doubt that a FLO would mention the request from the McCanns in an official statement - if they had not passed it on.

IMO it is more likely that it was passed on but no response was received.   There is no evidence to suggest that their request was taken any further AFAIK.

Putting your opinion to one side Benice do we have any evidence that the McCanns question ( it was not a request ) was passed on to the PJ ?

[Brietta]

Yet you mention it.

Your intention is clear.

If this man was of real interest, he would have been traced.

I mention it as one of the many lines of investigation which was not pursued by the Policia Judiciaria in relation to Madeleine McCann's case when the opportunity existed in 2007.

Scotland Yard's review of the evidence revealed that there were many others lines of inquiry that had not been followed.  Therefore many omissions and many mistakes ... any one of which could have led to Madeleine's case being solved.

Detectives' jobs involve investigating leads which come their way. 

Of paramount importance in cases involving missing children and if the PJ were capable of blanking the Swiss offer via Interpol I am afraid it shows they were capable of ignoring everything and anything which may have come their way but which didn't tie in with their theory of parental involvement.

Both the coordinator of the botched investigation and his second in command are on record as suspecting the Drs McCann from the word go and that the abduction was a badly told, fabricated scenario.

Asking for a priest apparently carries more weight than a communication from Interpol in that crazy mixed up dog's breakfast of an investigation.

I see you carry the same contempt for following the evidence ... you have an excuse, you are not a detective ... it is a great misfortune that despite collecting a pay cheque for it ... Goncalo Amaral and Ricardo Paiva proved without question that neither were they.

[stephen25000]

I mention it as one of the many lines of investigation which was not pursued by the Policia Judiciaria in relation to Madeleine McCann's case when the opportunity existed in 2007.

Scotland Yard's review of the evidence revealed that there were many others lines of inquiry that had not been followed.  Therefore many omissions and many mistakes ... any one of which could have led to Madeleine's case being solved.

Detectives' jobs involve investigating leads which come their way. 

Of paramount importance in cases involving missing children and if the PJ were capable of blanking the Swiss offer via Interpol I am afraid it shows they were capable of ignoring everything and anything which may have come their way but which didn't tie in with their theory of parental involvement.

Both the coordinator of the botched investigation and his second in command are on record as suspecting the Drs McCann from the word go and that the abduction was a badly told, fabricated scenario.

Asking for a priest apparently carries more weight than a communication from Interpol in that crazy mixed up dog's breakfast of an investigation.

I see you carry the same contempt for following the evidence ... you have an excuse, you are not a detective ... it is a great misfortune that despite collecting a pay cheque for it ... Goncalo Amaral and Ricardo Paiva proved without question that neither were they.

Well more examples of your biased opinion.

'Lines of inquiry'. What does that actually mean in reality ?

SY has clearly achieved nothing, and to pretend otherwise is foolish IMO of course.

Likewise there is no proof of abduction, then or now.

Investigation of the parents, was par for the course, with any police force.

[Benice]

Putting your opinion to one side Benice do we have any evidence that the McCanns question ( it was not a request ) was passed on to the PJ ?

Do we have any evidence that it was not passed on?    As it was the job of the FLOs to act as intermediaries between the PJ and the McCanns - I can think of no reason why that 'question' would not be passed on . 

Why would a FLO include that question from the McCanns in a statement  if they knew they had failed in their duty  to pass it on.   Surely if that was the case they would know that the PJ could prove from their records that no such 'question'  had been received from the FLO's on behalf of the McCanns - and they would be exposed for making false claims.

Can you think of any credible reason why the FLO would ignore the McCanns request to pass this question on to the PJ?     I can't.

[Brietta]

Talk about any suspect will do.

Not "any suspect".

A man whose vehicle was made available for their inspection and a man whose associates might have been well worth following up.

The Swiss police thought it worthwhile enough to alert the Portuguese investigation via Interpol.  But the Portuguese were not interested.  All that concerned them was getting Madeleine's parents to "confess".

We now know that there was no evidence to justify making either an arguido.  Nor was there any evidence against them involving them in any way in the disappearance of their daughter.

If there had been no firearms incident in the Swiss forest with one dead and one wounded ... what evidence would there have been against Von Aesch in the abduction of Ylenia?

Ylenia's clothing and possessions would not have been found and his DNA would not have been found on them.

The Swiss police searched the forest where his body was found and eventually located Ylenia some time later.

Without the unidentified seriously injured man stumbling onto the road to seek assistance and the investigation into that ... I doubt we would ever have heard of Von Aesch or Ylenia Lenhard in relation to Madeleine McCann's disappearance.

The failure of the PJ to investigate the information received via Interpol must surely rank as a far greater omission than their failure to check the twins.

I am amazed that the sceptics posting on this thread are incapable of recognising the dereliction of duty exemplified in this one deliberate omission.

There is little point in deriding the generic "suspect" ... how else do proper police detain perpetrators if they don't look for them in the first instance and ignore all information relating to them??