Was the PJ's biggest mistake not testing the twins straight away?

[misty]

As elements of the PJ were so convinced the scene had been staged, I'd have thought they'd have been chomping at the bit to prove that the twins had been sedated by the parents.

[Brietta]

You need to read more thoroughly.

Both the PJ and especially the McCann's, given their background should have insisted on tests being carried out.

Meanwhile there is nothing in this case to show abduction that can't be explained by other possibilities.

I left the in-depth discussion about whether or not the magnitude of the failure to check on the twins was the biggest mistake made by the Policia Judiciaria ... when it became patently obvious that it most certainly was not.

I find it truly surprising however that posters, some of whom may have spent the last nine years asking questions about Madeleine's case have no curiosity regarding Von Aesch or the circumstances in which his body was found and later Ylenia's body was found.
The direct connection to Madeleine's case is that the Swiss police thought it relevant enough to share the information and from that starting point other avenues of investigation might have been suggested.

See ... http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3143.0  for more information.  Post #3 from an article written in 2007 indicates a police statement to the effect he had been in the Algarve at the time of Madeleine's disappearance.

So my reading skills are fine, thank you for your concern, as is my comprehension.  I am certainly curious about the circumstances of Von Aesch's demise in the forest and the Swiss contact with the Portuguese as a result.

If I were a poster justifying my eagerness to question all things McCann ... this would appear to be near virgin territory of unasked questions and by definition unanswered questions.

That it doesn't point in the preferred direction is just one of those things which happens when investigators have an open mind and follow evidence ... pity there was such a marked prejudice against checking it out at the time.

[stephen25000]

I left the in-depth discussion about whether or not the magnitude of the failure to check on the twins was the biggest mistake made by the Policia Judiciaria ... when it became patently obvious that it most certainly was not.

I find it truly surprising however that posters, some of whom may have spent the last nine years asking questions about Madeleine's case have no curiosity regarding Von Aesch or the circumstances in which his body was found and later Ylenia's body was found.
The direct connection to Madeleine's case is that the Swiss police thought it relevant enough to share the information and from that starting point other avenues of investigation might have been suggested.

See ... http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3143.0  for more information.  Post #3 from an article written in 2007 indicates a police statement to the effect he had been in the Algarve at the time of Madeleine's disappearance.

So my reading skills are fine, thank you for your concern, as is my comprehension.  I am certainly curious about the circumstances of Von Aesch's demise in the forest and the Swiss contact with the Portuguese as a result.

If I were a poster justifying my eagerness to question all things McCann ... this would appear to be near virgin territory of unasked questions and by definition unanswered questions.

That it doesn't point in the preferred direction is just one of those things which happens when investigators have an open mind and follow evidence ... pity there was such a marked prejudice against checking it out at the time.

and what is far more likely , to put it mildly , it has no links to the McCann case whatsoever.

[Brietta]

and what is far more likely , to put it mildly , it has no links to the McCann case whatsoever.

Oh is that what the Swiss police were trying to say in their urgent contacts via Interpol to the Portuguese in 2007 ??

How extraordinary.

[Alice Purjorick]

According to the email from the Swiss police dated three days prior to the Drs McCann being constituted arguidos they didn't leave themselves a lot of time to rattle with anyone (or whatever it is your rather quaint wording is trying to convey ? ?).

If it had been done as you suggest ?? - I do wish you would use standard English in your posts ~ it is tiresome enough struggling with Google and Portuguese - why would the Scotland Yard review team have taken time out to visit Switzerland to check on what they might have?
Which unsurprisingly drew a blank ... which might not necessarily have been the case way back in 2007.

Standard English not being my mother tongue I would find that hard. Doing what I do I have travelled all over the UK and many other countries beside tending to pick up colloquialisms. It isn't my fault English is a language which has so many dialects and colloquialisms they are scarcely understood within a county let alone the whole country.
Gis a clue which dialect you prefer. Or I can "do" unnecessarily verbose if that's your bag.

But if you want the gist of my earlier post about which you were a trifle haughty it was:
Upon receipt of the email I would have telephoned the Swiss Police Department in order to have verbal intercourse with the originator of the message. Having had such verbal intercourse to the extent I judged necessary I would then evaluate the information contained therein in order to determine whether a visit to the site was indeed required. Whatever I had decided would be recorded in the department's official "Record of Phone Call Format" and filed in the appropriate file.
Can you demonstrate something similar to this was not done by the PJ ?

[G-Unit]

As elements of the PJ were so convinced the scene had been staged, I'd have thought they'd have been chomping at the bit to prove that the twins had been sedated by the parents.

First you need to establish the well known (?) connection between staging a crime scene and sedating children.

[G-Unit]

The biggest mistake the PJ made was not fully investigating the events of 3rd May in my opinion. There were widely varying times given in various statements, from when the group arrived at the restaurant to the time the alarm was raised. Every person present should have been re-interviewed and asked why they gave certain times for certain events. The service of the meal should have been examined to try and pin down the times when courses were served and the time the meal finished. The receptionist should have been re-interviewed as to Matthew Oldfield's request to call the police. Amy Tierney should have been questioned about the time of her visit, because she claimed to have seen the open window and shutters when no-one else, even those there at the same time, saw them. Then a reconstitution should have been done immediately.

That would have either implicated or cleared every member of the group, every member of staff and every other holidaymaker. The investigation could have then moved on with that basic question settled.

[slartibartfast]

The biggest mistake the PJ made was not fully investigating the events of 3rd May in my opinion. There were widely varying times given in various statements, from when the group arrived at the restaurant to the time the alarm was raised. Every person present should have been re-interviewed and asked why they gave certain times for certain events. The service of the meal should have been examined to try and pin down the times when courses were served and the time the meal finished. The receptionist should have been re-interviewed as to Matthew Oldfield's request to call the police. Amy Tierney should have been questioned about the time of her visit, because she claimed to have seen the open window and shutters when no-one else, even those there at the same time, saw them. Then a reconstitution should have been done immediately.

That would have either implicated or cleared every member of the group, every member of staff and every other holidaymaker. The investigation could have then moved on with that basic question settled.

Agreed, however so much of the confusion and subsequent areas for questioning arose over the course of time.

[Alfred R Jones]

The biggest mistake the PJ made was not fully investigating the events of 3rd May in my opinion. There were widely varying times given in various statements, from when the group arrived at the restaurant to the time the alarm was raised. Every person present should have been re-interviewed and asked why they gave certain times for certain events. The service of the meal should have been examined to try and pin down the times when courses were served and the time the meal finished. The receptionist should have been re-interviewed as to Matthew Oldfield's request to call the police. Amy Tierney should have been questioned about the time of her visit, because she claimed to have seen the open window and shutters when no-one else, even those there at the same time, saw them. Then a reconstitution should have been done immediately.

That would have either implicated or cleared every member of the group, every member of staff and every other holidaymaker. The investigation could have then moved on with that basic question settled.

Agreed.  They were rather sloppy in their investigations weren't they?

[stephen25000]

Oh is that what the Swiss police were trying to say in their urgent contacts via Interpol to the Portuguese in 2007 ??

How extraordinary.

and what link has been established to this case ?

[slartibartfast]

and what link has been established to this case ?

Someone who kills them-self after murdering a little girl does not come across as a serial offender.

[Brietta]

Standard English not being my mother tongue I would find that hard. Doing what I do I have travelled all over the UK and many other countries beside tending to pick up colloquialisms. It isn't my fault English is a language which has so many dialects and colloquialisms they are scarcely understood within a county let alone the whole country.
Gis a clue which dialect you prefer. Or I can "do" unnecessarily verbose if that's your bag.

But if you want the gist of my earlier post about which you were a trifle haughty it was:
Upon receipt of the email I would have telephoned the Swiss Police Department in order to have verbal intercourse with the originator of the message. Having had such verbal intercourse to the extent I judged necessary I would then evaluate the information contained therein in order to determine whether a visit to the site was indeed required. Whatever I had decided would be recorded in the department's official "Record of Phone Call Format" and filed in the appropriate file.
Can you demonstrate something similar to this was not done by the PJ ?

Thank you.

Can you demonstrate that it was?  or that the receipt of the email communications advising that Von Aesch's vehicle was to be dismantled was even acknowledged?

I rather think the imminent and expected "nailing" of the prime suspects may have distracted the investigators from investigating.

[Alfred R Jones]

Someone who kills them-self after murdering a little girl does not come across as a serial offender.

Oh dear me.
"Von Aesch had a criminal record and was sentenced to 15 months in jail in 1961 after trying to extort ten thousand Swiss francs from a businessman in Zurich by threatening to kidnap his young son. He sent him a letter saying "...how terrible must it be, to live through the day not knowing if your dear Geni will return from day care..." (translated). [6]

In 1990 he married and moved to Benimantell, a village 15 km from Benidorm in Spain. Police in St. Gallen have also re-opened enquiries into the disappearances of five other girls who disappeared in the area before von Aesch moved to Spain".

[stephen25000]

Oh dear me.
"Von Aesch had a criminal record and was sentenced to 15 months in jail in 1961 after trying to extort ten thousand Swiss francs from a businessman in Zurich by threatening to kidnap his young son. He sent him a letter saying "...how terrible must it be, to live through the day not knowing if your dear Geni will return from day care..." (translated). [6]

In 1990 he married and moved to Benimantell, a village 15 km from Benidorm in Spain. Police in St. Gallen have also re-opened enquiries into the disappearances of five other girls who disappeared in the area before von Aesch moved to Spain".

This does not mean he was linked to this case.

[slartibartfast]

Oh dear me.
"Von Aesch had a criminal record and was sentenced to 15 months in jail in 1961 after trying to extort ten thousand Swiss francs from a businessman in Zurich by threatening to kidnap his young son. He sent him a letter saying "...how terrible must it be, to live through the day not knowing if your dear Geni will return from day care..." (translated). [6]
 
In 1990 he married and moved to Benimantell, a village 15 km from Benidorm in Spain. Police in St. Gallen have also re-opened enquiries into the disappearances of five other girls who disappeared in the area before von Aesch moved to Spain".

You missed the bit where the police said they couldn't find a link to the other 5.