Author Topic: Was the PJ's biggest mistake not testing the twins straight away?  (Read 218151 times)

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Offline Lace

Re: Was the PJ's biggest mistake not testing the twins straight away?
« Reply #960 on: January 21, 2016, 11:10:34 AM »
 
  G-Unit,     this is sample of the chaos that went on in 5a on May 3rd,  the state the McCann's were in and when Fiona said the twins were fine -
 
 
  1485
  'What did you see when you walked in, describe it''
 
 
  Reply
  'At that point, Gerry, I don't think was in the apartment, it was mainly Kate. And Kate was just, huh, utter disbelief and I had disbelief, thinking she's got to be here, you know, what, how can this have happened. And by that point Kate was already saying that the, what she'd found when she'd gone back, which was that the, she'd found the window open and the shutter open and she was convinced at that point that somebody had taken, taken Madeleine and that's what she was telling me and I was like 'They can't have done. They can't have done this', you know. And I looked, I looked throughout the whole apartment and I looked in all the cupboards, under the drawers, under the beds, behind the curtains, everywhere, erm, just, you know, trying to, knowing it had already been done, but you just do. Erm, tut, I looked, when I went into the room that Madeleine was sleeping in, the room was dark, Madeleine, erm, Madeleine's bed was sort of folded back, the sheets, quite kind of neatly really, erm, Sean and Amelie were fast asleep in their cots, they didn't stir, you know, I was opening the cupboards in the room and moving around the room, they didn't stir at all, which that was, that was odd. Erm, we were trying to ascertain whether Madeleine could have got out, and I've already said earlier the shutters were very heavy, and I was almost trying to convince Kate that she could have opened the shutter and climbed out, although knowing that wasn't a likely thing, but at that point we were just trying to pacify Kate in that Madeleine was going to be alright. Erm, and I, I think I touched the webbing in that room, but because Sean and Amelie were asleep, I didn't actually open the shutter in that room, we went, I went to the front of the house and I was trying to lift the shutter at the, at the back, just to prove whether, you know, whether it could have been opened and whether Madeleine could have opened it from the inside'.
 
 
 
 
 
  1485
  'How was Kate''
 
 
  Reply
  'Awful, erm, I've never seen such horrible raw emotion in my life and I've seen a lot of it in my job. Erm, tut, she, she was just bereft, she didn't know what to do, she was just panicking, extremely frightened, extremely frightened for Madeleine and, erm, was wondering where she was or what was happening to her. And the helplessness, erm, of not being able to do anything, what should she be doing, what could they do. Erm, she was angry, really angry, tut, punching walls, kicking walls, she was covered in bruises the next day, because she just didn't know what, what else to do. She was angry at herself, she kept saying 'I've let her down. We've let her down Gerry', you know, 'We should have been here'. Erm, tut, she was praying a lot. Erm, I just don't think she knew what to do, what to do. And she was just howling. It was just, just awful. I think as time went on it just seemed a massive delay from when we said to Matt to phone the Police, erm, that hour, it was an hour, it just seemed like an eternity, where nothing was happening, tut. Erm, you know, we're all intelligent people, we were all trying to think what we should be doing and, you know, what's going to make a difference. And Kate's ringing, Gerry's ringing anybody under the sun, family, they just don't, they honestly just didn't know what to do. So there was a lot of, Gerry's in and out, I mean, they were just sobbing, going between sobbing and then feeling helpless and then ringing people and this frantic activity. Kate was desperate to have a Priest, which, you know, people find weird, but I think that was just her way of thinking 'At least I can pray for Madeleine' and her way of feeling that she was doing something. Erm, tut, but she wasn't functioning'.
 
  00.53.22
  1485
  'Did the twins wake up at all''
 
 
  Reply
  'They didn't. They didn't'.
 
 
  1485
  'In the aftermath''
 
 
  Reply
  'No, and that was the other thing, she kept going into the twins, she kept putting her hands on the twins to check they were breathing, she was very much concerned in checking that they were okay. But they were okay, I mean, they were fine, they didn't, they were asleep, but at the time it did seem weird, I remember thinking, you know, when the Police came they turned the lights on, there was loads of noise, obviously from the moment Kate discovered that Madeleine was gone, the screaming and the shouting and there was a lot of noise and they, they didn't, you know, so much as blink'.
 


« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 11:13:57 AM by Lace »

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Was the PJ's biggest mistake not testing the twins straight away?
« Reply #961 on: January 21, 2016, 11:19:13 AM »
Gerry not in the apartment when Dianne was there and still not when Fiona arrived. Aren't you looking for someone SY. If you're not with it by now go get another job @)(++(*
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Lace

Re: Was the PJ's biggest mistake not testing the twins straight away?
« Reply #962 on: January 21, 2016, 11:21:24 AM »
Gerry not in the apartment when Dianne was there and still not when Fiona arrived. Aren't you looking for someone SY. If you're not with it by now go get another job @)(++(*

??????

Offline G-Unit

Re: Was the PJ's biggest mistake not testing the twins straight away?
« Reply #963 on: January 21, 2016, 11:23:17 AM »
When they were both in a state of collapse.  And The Twins were both fine next morning.  And then they were both being questioned about the total disappearance of their eldest daughter.

What were their priorities, do you think?

They didn't know on the night of 3rd/4th that the twins would be fine next morning, so that's immaterial. One child is missing and the other two are behaving in such a way as to make the parents 'very concerned'. Nothing can be done for the missing child, but you can make absolutely sure the others are going to be OK. A few screams of 'the twins won't wake up' would have sufficed.
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Offline pathfinder73

Re: Was the PJ's biggest mistake not testing the twins straight away?
« Reply #964 on: January 21, 2016, 11:31:37 AM »
??????

SY have gone quiet haven't they Lace  8(0(*
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Eleanor

Re: Was the PJ's biggest mistake not testing the twins straight away?
« Reply #965 on: January 21, 2016, 11:40:59 AM »
Gerry not in the apartment when Dianne was there and still not when Fiona arrived. Aren't you looking for someone SY. If you're not with it by now go get another job @)(++(*

You think this funny?

Offline Lace

Re: Was the PJ's biggest mistake not testing the twins straight away?
« Reply #966 on: January 21, 2016, 11:46:38 AM »
SY have gone quiet haven't they Lace  8(0(*

I believe SY have been quiet for about a year haven't they?   As they said they would not be giving a running commentary over how the investigation was going.

So your point is?

Offline Lace

Re: Was the PJ's biggest mistake not testing the twins straight away?
« Reply #967 on: January 21, 2016, 11:49:11 AM »
They didn't know on the night of 3rd/4th that the twins would be fine next morning, so that's immaterial. One child is missing and the other two are behaving in such a way as to make the parents 'very concerned'. Nothing can be done for the missing child, but you can make absolutely sure the others are going to be OK. A few screams of 'the twins won't wake up' would have sufficed.

How do you know they didn't know on the night between the 3rd and 4th of May?    They were trained to know the signs of unconsciousness,   so how do you know they didn't see signs later on that the twins were fine?

I think what Drs. see and what the general public see are two different things.

Offline Eleanor

Re: Was the PJ's biggest mistake not testing the twins straight away?
« Reply #968 on: January 21, 2016, 11:51:18 AM »
They didn't know on the night of 3rd/4th that the twins would be fine next morning, so that's immaterial. One child is missing and the other two are behaving in such a way as to make the parents 'very concerned'. Nothing can be done for the missing child, but you can make absolutely sure the others are going to be OK. A few screams of 'the twins won't wake up' would have sufficed.

The Twin's breathing was okay, so what would have been the point of trying to wake them up in that chaos, and inflicting trauma on them.  Is this what you are suggesting that The McCanns should have done?  Is this what you would have done?  Two screaming and confused babies to add to the horror?

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Was the PJ's biggest mistake not testing the twins straight away?
« Reply #969 on: January 21, 2016, 11:55:55 AM »
I am saying it's an unconfirmed claim. It's not confirmed by the police officers or by the interpreter. Relatives and friends were told immediately about the shortcomings of the police, but none of them mentioned how concerned the McCanns were about the twins and how the police ignored their concerns.
So you think potentially Kate lied about this in her book then.  And her reason for doing so would be...?

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Was the PJ's biggest mistake not testing the twins straight away?
« Reply #970 on: January 21, 2016, 11:56:42 AM »
They didn't know on the night of 3rd/4th that the twins would be fine next morning, so that's immaterial. One child is missing and the other two are behaving in such a way as to make the parents 'very concerned'. Nothing can be done for the missing child, but you can make absolutely sure the others are going to be OK. A few screams of 'the twins won't wake up' would have sufficed.
Did anyone actually try and wake up the twins?

Offline G-Unit

Re: Was the PJ's biggest mistake not testing the twins straight away?
« Reply #971 on: January 21, 2016, 11:57:11 AM »
How do you know they didn't know on the night between the 3rd and 4th of May?    They were trained to know the signs of unconsciousness,   so how do you know they didn't see signs later on that the twins were fine?

I think what Drs. see and what the general public see are two different things.

Wouldn't Kate have told everyone in her book? 'We were very concerned about the twins, but soon realised they were OK. I checked their breathing regularly and as I am a doctor I could tell that they were sleeping normally and hadn't been sedated'. She didn't say that, did she?
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Offline G-Unit

Re: Was the PJ's biggest mistake not testing the twins straight away?
« Reply #972 on: January 21, 2016, 11:59:24 AM »
The Twin's breathing was okay, so what would have been the point of trying to wake them up in that chaos, and inflicting trauma on them.  Is this what you are suggesting that The McCanns should have done?  Is this what you would have done?  Two screaming and confused babies to add to the horror?

If their breathing was OK what caused the parents to be 'very concerned'?
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Offline faithlilly

Re: Was the PJ's biggest mistake not testing the twins straight away?
« Reply #973 on: January 21, 2016, 12:00:02 PM »

Quite so - to dismiss the state of total shock  they were in at the time - as if it shouldn't have affected them in any way is totally unrealistic.   They would be out of their minds with worry.

Also Kate was very health conscious - especially about their diet.    Would a mother who regarded  a Rich Tea biscuit as a major treat also casually pump sedatives into their systems night after night to any extent -  let alone to the extent that she overdosed them?  That makes no sense to me.

Children will sleep through all kinds of horrendous noise  - and it's known that the twins slept like logs anyway.  IMO this was an example of just that  - but in the immediate aftermath  of what had just happened - it would be a natural to wonder if on this occasion it was because they may have been drugged.

It seems to me that the twins must have woken up the next day behaving perfectly normally and showing no signs of anything untoward and so that would considerably lessen the parents'  anxiety  -  but would not completely dispel the suspicion that drugs may have been used.    And that is why they made enquiries via their FLO asking whether the PJ forensics had found any evidence of drug use.

AIMHO

It's not known that the twins slept like logs. We are told that the McCanns didn't use the front door ' as the noise may have woken the children' and Kate, once the door allegedly slammed, didn't want to put the light on ' in case it woke the children'. That certainly doesn't sound like children who ' sleep like logs' to me.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Benice

Re: Was the PJ's biggest mistake not testing the twins straight away?
« Reply #974 on: January 21, 2016, 12:00:43 PM »
They didn't know on the night of 3rd/4th that the twins would be fine next morning, so that's immaterial. One child is missing and the other two are behaving in such a way as to make the parents 'very concerned'. Nothing can be done for the missing child, but you can make absolutely sure the others are going to be OK. A few screams of 'the twins won't wake up' would have sufficed.

Good grief.

Do you really believe they would have decided :-    '-'Oh well nothing can be done for Madeleine - so let's concentrate on the twins' ?    Seriously?

Your apparent inability to put yourself in their shoes or take any account of the traumatic effect of the nightmare situation (into which they were suddenly catapulted with absolutely no prior warning) - astounds me.

Normal human beings do not behave or think in the way you appear to expect them to  in times of extreme panic, overwhelming fear and trauma.    Ask any parent who has lost their child - even for a few moments.






The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal