Was the PJ's biggest mistake not testing the twins straight away?

[faithlilly]

When they were both in a state of collapse.  And The Twins were both fine next morning.  And then they were both being questioned about the total disappearance of their eldest daughter.

What were their priorities, do you think?

On the night of the third the McCanns could not be sure that the twins ' would be fine the next morning' so that is hardly justification for their lack of action.

[Eleanor]

Are you kidding?!  He made a whole career out of doubting the veracity of Kate's claims in case you hadn't noticed!!

I was seriously told off for saying this.  So consider yourself told off.  And don't do it again.

[faithlilly]

Good grief.

Do you really believe they would have decided :-    '-'Oh well nothing can be done for Madeleine - so let's concentrate on the twins' ?    Seriously?

Your apparent inability to put yourself in their shoes or take any account of the traumatic effect of the nightmare situation (into which they were suddenly catapulted with absolutely no prior warning) - astounds me.

Normal human beings do not behave or think in the way you appear to expect them to  in times of extreme panic, overwhelming fear and trauma.    Ask any parent who has lost their child - even for a few moments.

So Gerry wasn't rational enough to get help for his two unresponsive children even though, we are told, he and his wife were 'very concerned' but was rational enough to fiddle with the windows in order to gauge how the alleged abductor had entered the apartment. Is that what you are trying to tell us ?

[Benice]

Wouldn't Kate have told everyone in her book? 'We were very concerned about the twins, but soon realised they were OK. I checked their breathing regularly and as I am a doctor I could tell that they were sleeping normally and hadn't been sedated'. She didn't say that, did she?

I'm sure if she'd known that every word she has ever spoken was going to be put under a microscope and dissected to the Nth degree  by people like yourself - desperate to 'get something on her'  -  she would have explained every single move she made and every word she ever uttered in precise detail.     Although of course  the result would have been a set of volumes and not just one book.    And sceptics would STILL have found fault.

IMO you  seem to be under the impression that the only words/conversations that would be going back and forth for several hours between all the various people involved that night are those which have been recorded in the files.

This is obviously not true.     We only know a tiny percentage of what was said during all those hours.   To claim that if  there is no mention of something - (something which turned out to be comparatively insignificant once the twins woke up the next day -  and would be completely overshadowed in people's minds by Madeleine's disappearance) - means that IYO it was never mentioned is not realistic IMO. 

[Benice]

So Gerry wasn't rational enough to get help for his two unresponsive children even though, we are told, he and his wife were 'very concerned' but was rational enough to fiddle with the windows in order to gauge how the alleged abductor had entered the apartment. Is that what you are trying to tell us ?

I think the fact that he 'fiddled with the windows' is proof that he was not behaving in a rational way at that time - as he was actually removing the evidence of an intrusion.     

To behave in a rational way - he would have stood sentinel over the windows to make sure no-one touched them until the police came.    But unfortunately he was in a state of shock at the time and getting worse by the moment and unsurprisingly was not thinking straight

AIMHO

[G-Unit]

I'm sure if she'd known that every word she has ever spoken was going to be put under a microscope and dissected to the Nth degree  by people like yourself - desperate to 'get something on her'  -  she would have explained every single move she made and every word she ever uttered in precise detail.     Although of course  the result would have been a set of volumes and not just one book.    And sceptics would STILL have found fault.

IMO you  seem to be under the impression that the only words/conversations that would be going back and forth for several hours between all the various people involved that night are those which have been recorded in the files.

This is obviously not true.     We only know a tiny percentage of what was said during all those hours.   To claim that if  there is no mention of something - (something which turned out to be comparatively insignificant once the twins woke up the next day -  and would be completely overshadowed in people's minds by Madeleine's disappearance) - means that IYO it was never mentioned is not realistic IMO.

It has become significant because of what Kate McCann has said about it. It has become significant because what she said can't be confirmed and makes no sense. It has become significant because she blames the PJ yet again for neglecting to do something.

[Alice Purjorick]

I'm not guessing...military links to British Army Germany..........just look at the evidence...

Evidence of what? I have no links whatever to the BAOR. I have however worked in Germany but worked for longer in both Italy and Jordan. Throw that into your mix and try again.
Your signature strip should be : "I Tell You That's Burt Reynolds"

[Brietta]

I'm sure if she'd known that every word she has ever spoken was going to be put under a microscope and dissected to the Nth degree  by people like yourself - desperate to 'get something on her'  -  she would have explained every single move she made and every word she ever uttered in precise detail.     Although of course  the result would have been a set of volumes and not just one book.    And sceptics would STILL have found fault.

IMO you  seem to be under the impression that the only words/conversations that would be going back and forth for several hours between all the various people involved that night are those which have been recorded in the files.

This is obviously not true.     We only know a tiny percentage of what was said during all those hours.   To claim that if  there is no mention of something - (something which turned out to be comparatively insignificant once the twins woke up the next day -  and would be completely overshadowed in people's minds by Madeleine's disappearance) - means that IYO it was never mentioned is not realistic IMO.

Amazing how much mileage and innuendo that can be drummed up with the very simple words ... not ... testing ... the ... twins.

Von Aesch apparently purchased and subdued Ylenia with paint thinner and it is the known modus operandi of of Raymond Hewlett a man who boasted of being in Praia da Luz and having seen Madeleine.

Sniffing the pillow doesn't sound like a great forensic technique but is probably fine for starters ... but among the mistakes made by the Policia Judiciaria as per the thread title ... was the neglect of the crime scene.

This includes the PJ allowing particularly Madeleine's bedding to be removed by housekeeping staff and laundered.  It should have been bagged and preserved for examination immediately.

So by no manner of means was their failure to test the twins their biggest mistake ... it was merely one of the many.

[Lace]

So Gerry wasn't rational enough to get help for his two unresponsive children even though, we are told, he and his wife were 'very concerned' but was rational enough to fiddle with the windows in order to gauge how the alleged abductor had entered the apartment. Is that what you are trying to tell us ?

It was all done in a panic Faithlilly,    Gerry ran outside to see if the shutters could be lifted from outside the apartment,   then he thought someone had come in through the window and taken Madeleine.

The fact that the twins slept through everything was something they were very concerned about afterwards,  Kate was checking on the twins in between  crying, screaming,  hitting things and berating herself for leaving Madeleine,  she was trained as an anaesthetist  she would know what to look out for.

[faithlilly]

I can imagine you would have been so controlled and able to function normally wouldn't you?

I would certainly get help for my remaining children if I was ' very concerned' that they had been given something to sedate them. Wouldn't any normal parent no matter how distraught ?

[Eleanor]

I am deleting now.  Have a care.  And please don't Quote Spurious and Libellous Posts because they will go as well.

[faithlilly]

It was all done in a panic Faithlilly,    Gerry ran outside to see if the shutters could be lifted from outside the apartment,   then he thought someone had come in through the window and taken Madeleine.

The fact that the twins slept through everything was something they were very concerned about afterwards,  Kate was checking on the twins in between  crying, screaming,  hitting things and berating herself for leaving Madeleine,  she was trained as an anaesthetist  she would know what to look out for.

So Gerry had the piece of mind to theorise about the point of entry but not to get help for their children who they were 'very concerned about ' and not afterwards Lace on that very night.

[Alfred R Jones]

Good grief.

Do you really believe they would have decided :-    '-'Oh well nothing can be done for Madeleine - so let's concentrate on the twins' ?    Seriously?

Your apparent inability to put yourself in their shoes or take any account of the traumatic effect of the nightmare situation (into which they were suddenly catapulted with absolutely no prior warning) - astounds me.

Normal human beings do not behave or think in the way you appear to expect them to  in times of extreme panic, overwhelming fear and trauma.    Ask any parent who has lost their child - even for a few moments.

[G-Unit]

Amazing how much mileage and innuendo that can be drummed up with the very simple words ... not ... testing ... the ... twins.

Von Aesch apparently purchased and subdued Ylenia with paint thinner and it is the known modus operandi of of Raymond Hewlett a man who boasted of being in Praia da Luz and having seen Madeleine.

Sniffing the pillow doesn't sound like a great forensic technique but is probably fine for starters ... but among the mistakes made by the Policia Judiciaria as per the thread title ... was the neglect of the crime scene.

This includes the PJ allowing particularly Madeleine's bedding to be removed by housekeeping staff and laundered.  It should have been bagged and preserved for examination immediately.

So by no manner of means was their failure to test the twins their biggest mistake ... it was merely one of the many.

Toluene was used, apparently, which smells like paint thinner but isn't sold to the general public in the UK. Maybe it is in other countries, I don't know. Had it been used in 5A I expect the smell may have lingered.

[slartibartfast]

Toluene was used, apparently, which smells like paint thinner but isn't sold to the general public in the UK. Maybe it is in other countries, I don't know. Had it been used in 5A I expect the smell may have lingered.

The area of the pillow of the bed from the minor disappeared was inspected with the intention to detect the presence of some smell [aroma] characteristic of volatile substances typical of chloroform or ether, this search proving negative
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm