Was the PJ's biggest mistake not testing the twins straight away?

[Alfred R Jones]

6 September statement and here:

'I didn't think of it at the time but the day Madeleine disappeared I noticed what I thought was a tea stain on her Disney pyjama top,' she says. 'I washed it without thinking but looking back, the children hadn't drunk any tea that day and I can't remember her mentioning that she'd spilt anything.'

Quite.  We only know of its existence because Kate McCann chose to tell us about it.  Why, if it was evidence of some nefarious going on do you think she decided to tell us this ages after the event?

[pegasus]

Quite.  We only know of its existence because Kate McCann chose to tell us about it.  Why, if it was evidence of some nefarious going on do you think she decided to tell us this ages after the event?

precisely Alfred, it is clear that this witness is completely truthful IMO

[Alfred R Jones]

precisely Alfred, it is clear that this witness is completely truthful IMO

who are you talking about?

[Lace]

Same thing?

You get permission from the owner to search.  Or you get a court order, which would not be issued without some evidence more solid than the premises are locked.  Empty premises are normally locked.

Even if they are searching for a missing child?   What if they suspect a child is in the garage being abused,  they just leave,  and put a request in for a search warrant!!!

[G-Unit]

Even if they are searching for a missing child?   What if they suspect a child is in the garage being abused,  they just leave,  and put a request in for a search warrant!!!

They could enter if they suspected the child was present under UK law, but they would have to justify their decision if she wasn't. Brietta seemed to be suggesting the Portuguese police should have broken open all locked properties just in case.

[Brietta]

Even if they are searching for a missing child?   What if they suspect a child is in the garage being abused,  they just leave,  and put a request in for a search warrant!!!

Jaycee Dugard was kept captive outdoors in a back garden for eighteen years.

However it is unsurprising that if the Policia Judiciaria neglected to interview people present in the apartment block from where Madeleine vanished they would go to the trouble of getting a search warrant to allow them to check outbuildings.

Quote

JondiPaolo @jondipaolo
Paiva: amaral's thesis has prevented other theories from being investigated.
4:11 PM - 12 Jan 2010

End quote

They believed Madeleine dead ... but it seems they couldn't be bothered to search even for her remains.

If John Connor a high ranking former police officer saw fit to criticise what he was seeing first hand ... his word weighs far more heavily with me than anything a sceptic poster on a forum can muster.
What did catch my attention particularly as we have had much discussion about about the influence of the media ... was the way in which he noted the use of the Portuguese media who dripped poison into the ears of foreign correspondents aided and abetted by the police.

This was immediately after Madeleine's disappearance ... but the police investigation was already directed firmly on the parents.  The introduction of Mr Murat into the mix by officers obviously not in the naval gazing loop must have upset the apple cart for a few months. In my opinion.

John Connor stated without equivocation ... that "a lot of things weren't done."

He was there ... he was qualified to view a police investigation even from the periphery and make a judgement ... particularly the lobbying of journalists with insidious insinuation against Madeleine's parents ... which are still common currency and defended in sceptic forums, and this one, in the present day.

 John O'Connor on RTE 190513
on SoundCloud.


**Snip

I was there with GMTV at the time and the press were being briefed covertly by Portuguese journalists and police officers that they believed that the offenders were within the family or the family group ...

and they would't move from that and they were so wrong ...

and it got them off to a dreadful start and they missed golden opportunities in the early stages of the investigation ...

because they were just intent on trying to to prove some culpability within the family and they could't have been further from the actual truth of it and of course what SY been trying to do is to catch up with what should have been done at the time. 

There's a lot of things that weren't done.

I mean I saw the searches that were carried out on open ground and so on and they were cursory, to say the least.

I mean if they came across a locked shed or whatever they wouldn't force the door, now this it really was ...

A lot of the stuff that was seen to be done seemed to be window dressing for the world's media and I didn't get the impression that they were really going about this ...

https://madeleinemccannthetruth.wordpress.com/2013/05/22/john-oconnor-speaking-to-marian-finucane/


In my opinion ... the search which we all assumed was thorough has been judged by an experienced cop who actually saw it taking place  to have been "window dressing for the world's media".
With apologies to the honest police searchers doing their bit ... a big mistake made by the higher echelons of the PJ.

In my opinion ... not nearly as big a mistake as the heinous propaganda war which John Connor confirms emanated from the police because of a fixation on parental guilt.
So despite an eye witness account of a man carrying a child from the direction of the McCann apartment ... instead of actually looking for Madeleine ... according to Paiva nothing but Amaral's thesis was investigated.

Sounds logical.
Man and child seen ... ignored by the investigation.
One parent sitting at a table in the restaurant.
The other parent standing outside the apartment in conversation ... throw all the investigative resources and leaks in the direction of the parents.

Biggest mistake of all ... and very likely the reason Madeleine wasn't found ... particularly if the authority which should have been looking for her had those resources concentrated on looking at her parents right from the word go.

[stephen25000]

John O'Connor, ex-head of the Met Police's Flying Squad said today as it was revealed the hunt for Madeleine has cost British taxpayers almost £11 million pounds: "You can't keep chasing shadows.

"If there are no firm leads, and by that I mean no substantial operational things like active surveillance on suspects, then I'd have thought they should be considering winding it down now."

His comments echoed those made in March by Met Police Federation chairman John Tully.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/602598/Madeleine-McCann-case-not-to-close

------------------------------------

Was Mr. O'Connor there when Madeleine disappeared ?

[Mr Gray]

John O'Connor, ex-head of the Met Police's Flying Squad said today as it was revealed the hunt for Madeleine has cost British taxpayers almost £11 million pounds: "You can't keep chasing shadows.

"If there are no firm leads, and by that I mean no substantial operational things like active surveillance on suspects, then I'd have thought they should be considering winding it down now."

His comments echoed those made in March by Met Police Federation chairman John Tully.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/602598/Madeleine-McCann-case-not-to-close

------------------------------------

Was Mr. O'Connor there when Madeleine disappeared ?

do you think he is involved then

[ShiningInLuz]

Even if they are searching for a missing child?   What if they suspect a child is in the garage being abused,  they just leave,  and put a request in for a search warrant!!!

I am not an expert on either UK or Portuguese law, and I will not claim to be so.

I believe that if the police thought a child was being abused in a garage, they would have justification to enter, without a warrant and without the owner's permission.

Around half of Luz was vacant, and locked.  How many doors should the PJ have broken through to find a missing child, in the absence of evidence to indicate she was in there, let alone being abused?

There is NO evidence I can think of WHATSOEVER to indicate Madeleine was held in any property on Luz, after she disappeared from 5A.

[pathfinder73]

precisely Alfred, it is clear that this witness is completely truthful IMO

Kate slept in the same bedroom with the children that night (WED). Gerry strangely said someone else in the group had done a check on their children that night. Next morning (THUR) a stain appears. Hmmm  &%+((£

[G-Unit]

John O'Conner. another self-styled 'expert'. Who was he? Well, he ran the Flying Squad before he retired;

The Squad's purpose is to investigate commercial armed robberies, along with the prevention and investigation of other serious armed crime.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Squad

Lots of experience of organising missing person searches then......NOT. Why does every ex policeman feel he's an expert on everything? I bet the PJ could watch a UK investigation and be critical too. UK police are not perfect, as we know. They couldn't find a car in a field and that's a lot bigger than a child.

[Angelo222]

I am not an expert on either UK or Portuguese law, and I will not claim to be so.

I believe that if the police thought a child was being abused in a garage, they would have justification to enter, without a warrant and without the owner's permission.

Around half of Luz was vacant, and locked.  How many doors should the PJ have broken through to find a missing child, in the absence of evidence to indicate she was in there, let alone being abused?

There is NO evidence I can think of WHATSOEVER to indicate Madeleine was held in any property on Luz, after she disappeared from 5A.

It is always difficult to know where to draw the line and you can only do your best in any search.  Searching every single nook and cranny in and around Luz would be an impossible task.  If she fell down a hole there is every possibility she would never be found.

[G-Unit]

Kate slept in the same bedroom with the children that night (WED). Gerry strangely said someone else in the group had done a check on their children that night. Next morning (THUR) a stain appears. Hmmm  &%+((£

The bed was messy and Kate said on 4th May;

She reports only one episode where, on the morning of Thursday May 3rd, Madeleine asked the interviewee why she had not come to look in the bedroom when the twins were crying. The interviewee states that she had heard nothing and had therefore not gone into the bedroom.

She changed her story when interviewed in September to say that she had slept in the room with the children. Gerry mentioned it in his 10th May statement. 

[Lace]

I am not an expert on either UK or Portuguese law, and I will not claim to be so.

I believe that if the police thought a child was being abused in a garage, they would have justification to enter, without a warrant and without the owner's permission.

Around half of Luz was vacant, and locked.  How many doors should the PJ have broken through to find a missing child, in the absence of evidence to indicate she was in there, let alone being abused?

There is NO evidence I can think of WHATSOEVER to indicate Madeleine was held in any property on Luz, after she disappeared from 5A.

An abductor could have taken Madeleine to a shed, garage or house,   I would have thought the police would have searched all sheds and garages around the area where she went missing.

[pathfinder73]

The bed was messy and Kate said on 4th May;

She reports only one episode where, on the morning of Thursday May 3rd, Madeleine asked the interviewee why she had not come to look in the bedroom when the twins were crying. The interviewee states that she had heard nothing and had therefore not gone into the bedroom.

She changed her story when interviewed in September to say that she had slept in the room with the children. Gerry mentioned it in his 10th May statement.

If Madeleine said anything it points to TUE night not WED. WED night Rachel was next door to the children's room and heard nowt and Kate was in the same room. It all points to Madeleine crying on TUE as Pamela Fenn witnessed.