An Appeal Courts Function

[Myster]

It's the only away justice can be served given that EP destroyed the casings depriving JB of the opportunity to prove his innocence!

Its already been dubbed 'Trial of the century'!  Rupert Murdoch has been in touch with Theresa May wanting tv rights to broadcast live!

You're too early... April 1st is a couple of months away. You'll be telling me Jeremy Corbyn Bamber will be living at no.10 next.

[Holly Goodhead]

1) removing the kitchen phone would not disable the other phones until several minutes passed. When you remove it from the hook after several minutes the dialtone would go away and then it could not be used until all phones were hung up.

2) if they heard him entering and called police to report someone had broken in before he could get to the kitchen phone then he would be totally screwed.

By removing the phone from the bedroom in advance he ensured they would not be able to summon police even if they heard him breaking in.

As far as I'm aware one line = any extension picked up immediately disables others.  When did he enter his parents bedroom to remove the phone and replace it under mags in kitchen?  In any event a bit of a risk as June or NB might have found it and replaced it.  Still think NB would notice a missing phone at the side of his bed and think it odd if it was normally there and discuss with June/investigate.

Not knowing who answered the phone while you were asleep is vastly different from not remembering whether you called Julie first or Police or changing where you supposedly left the gun and changing when he saw the rabbits or worst of all knowing whether the gun fit in the closet with the moderator and scope attached and making up it had a case that it didn't fit in with them attached.  Nevill bought no guncase.  People who get caught in a lie just tell more and thus make matters worse hence "Oh what a web we weave..."

Whoever answered the phone must have woken JM so surely she would recall who woke her?  There were only 2/3 occupants in the property.  she then forgot/became muddled whether SB entered her bedroom after the circa 3.30am call or the 5.30am call. 

Rifle cases are not designed for specific rifles.  Most cases aren't.  I've had loads of cases over the years for various things  and don't recall any being specific.  Same as laptop bags etc.  Rifle cases are sold with and without provision for a scope.  Google rifle cases and you will see.   I posted some links but the links didn't work when I previewed and I cant be bothered to look up more. 

Did EP check out the rifle/scope/case?

You can see in AE's WS she corrects herself/changes previous statements:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3169.msg118117#msg118117

Unless people know they need to recall detail why would they bother remembering seemingly unimportant events?   

[david1819]

1) removing the kitchen phone would not disable the other phones until several minutes passed. When you remove it from the hook after several minutes the dialtone would go away and then it could not be used until all phones were hung up.

That simply is not true. I grew up in Essex with the same technology in place. Multiple analogue telephones with a shared single number take one off the hook and only that phone can call out the rest get no dial tone.

It was like that until ISDN2 and ADSL splitters got introduced around 1996

[puglove]

That simply is not true. I grew up in Essex with the same technology in place. Multiple analogue telephones with a shared single number take one off the hook and only that phone can call out the rest get no dial tone.

It was like that until ISDN2 and ADSL splitters got introduced around 1996

From what I can remember, you're absolutely right. You could have multiple phones connected to one line, and any one of those phones could disable the whole line. Take one phone off the hook, and no one could call out or receive a call. "Party lines" were a whole other ball game. You could pick up the phone to make a call, and suddenly listen to the other members of it, all having conversations that were ostensibly private. Massive fun!

[scipio_usmc]

As far as I'm aware one line = any extension picked up immediately disables others.  When did he enter his parents bedroom to remove the phone and replace it under mags in kitchen?  In any event a bit of a risk as June or NB might have found it and replaced it.  Still think NB would notice a missing phone at the side of his bed and think it odd if it was normally there and discuss with June/investigate.

Presumably he did it on Monday but maybe he did it Sunday there is no way to know for sure.  We only know he did it by the time Pike collected the cordless phone and adapter because Pike saw the rotary phone in the kitchen. The cordless phone and adapter were next to the rotary phone.  Jeremy was seen running from the house right before this so maybe that is when he did it.  All we know for sure though is that my mid Monday it was there.

What is the risk?  Even if the parents notice they will simply assume the kitchen phone was broken and that is why the bedroom phone replaced it. Jeremy could play dumb and say he has no idea if they asked him why it was there or he could lie and say the kitchen phone broke.  That's even they even asked him.  They could have asked others and even if they get no answer as to who moved it or why what could they do?  With the kitchen phone hidden they would have to leave the rotary phone there until they could get a new phone.

Whoever answered the phone must have woken JM so surely she would recall who woke her?  There were only 2/3 occupants in the property.  she then forgot/became muddled whether SB entered her bedroom after the circa 3.30am call or the 5.30am call.

I think there were 4 of them there including Julie.  It is possible for a different roommate to go and wake her than the one who answered. In any event she mixed up which of Jeremy's phone calls Doug had come into her room and told her about.  She told police one call but changed it to the other call saying she made a mistake.  That is understandable and there is no reason she needed to change her story.  She just changed which phone call for the sake of accuracy.

Rifle cases are not designed for specific rifles.  Most cases aren't.  I've had loads of cases over the years for various things  and don't recall any being specific.  Same as laptop bags etc.  Rifle cases are sold with and without provision for a scope.  Google rifle cases and you will see.   I posted some links but the links didn't work when I previewed and I cant be bothered to look up more. 

Did EP check out the rifle/scope/case?

Some cases are custom made for specific rifles some are generic.  The problem is that there was no rifle case.  Jeremy lied and said the rifle didn't fit in the closet with the accessories attached.  Police confronted him saying they knew it fit and that he lied to them so he told them he didn't lie they were mistaken about what he told them and insisted he had told them it didn't fit in its case.  The problem with the second claim is that there was no case purchased for the Anschutz. There was no case for police to check if it could fit in.  I guess he hoped they would just accept his claim and that's it. They didn't know if a case existed or not at the time of the interrogation so it had the intended effect of shutting them up at that point.  If they said there was no case and pushed him further who knows what he would have said.  But by the time they found out there was no case he had lawyered up and was not questioned again until on the stand. If the prosecutors were worth a dam they would have found a way to ask him why he lied about this.  But Mike never posted the cross examination of Mike like he promised he would and cross is supposed to be limited to what was broached during the main questioning so maybe they didn't find a way to ask or maybe they didn't even have enough foresight to try.  We don't have any way to know.  In any event for our purposes it is pretty bad to lie about such. He made up a case to try to pretend that there was a reason for removing the scope and moderator.  You don't make such up for the hell of it or by accident.  It was calculated. 

You can see in AE's WS she corrects herself/changes previous statements:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3169.msg118117#msg118117

Unless people know they need to recall detail why would they bother remembering seemingly unimportant events?   

Yes but correcting minor details just for the sake of accuracy and claiming things happened that obviously never happened are two different things.  Nevill never purchased a rifle case and they didn't keep it in a rifle case ever so how could he innocently misremember it was often kept in a rifle case with the accessories unattached?  He told things for a specific purpose.

[scipio_usmc]

From what I can remember, you're absolutely right. You could have multiple phones connected to one line, and any one of those phones could disable the whole line. Take one phone off the hook, and no one could call out or receive a call. "Party lines" were a whole other ball game. You could pick up the phone to make a call, and suddenly listen to the other members of it, all having conversations that were ostensibly private. Massive fun!

Party Lines were shared lines by different account holders.  In the early 1980s BT was forced to sell extension jacks so that people could use any phone they like not just BT brand phones and these jacks were able to use pulse dialing etc. not just analog technology. Some of the phones at WHF had newer technology.  The only phone without any message history or redial function was the rotary phone which ended up in the kitchen... 

Did Jeremy only change it to deny his parents the ability to call police if they heard him entering or did he also do it so that police could not check to see the last number dialed?  Only he knows the answer to that.

[david1819]

Party Lines were shared lines by different account holders.  In the early 1980s BT was forced to sell extension jacks so that people could use any phone they like not just BT brand phones and these jacks were able to use pulse dialing etc. not just analog technology. Some of the phones at WHF had newer technology.  The only phone without any message history or redial function was the rotary phone which ended up in the kitchen... 

Did Jeremy only change it to deny his parents the ability to call police if they heard him entering or did he also do it so that police could not check to see the last number dialed?  Only he knows the answer to that.

The only phone in the house that could have been taken off the hook/cradle without activating the line would be the one that would probably have looked exactly like this.



This was sent to be repaired as it got damaged by a storm hence not in the house while the murders took place. you have to press a talk button on the handset this wirelessly has the receiver/transmitter activate the line, only then will the other phones in the house not be able to make any calls because it not possible to engage the circuit simultaneously however once a call is connected other phones in the house can be picked up and you can hear/talk participate in the conversation because its all on one circuit.

[Holly Goodhead]

I thought triall transcripts are retained indefinitely?

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/justice-demands-court-records-are-kept-a6830186.html

[scipio_usmc]

I thought triall transcripts are retained indefinitely?

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/justice-demands-court-records-are-kept-a6830186.html

They are not. Only if there is an appeal timely filed are they transcribed.  If not transcribed in time they are destroyed and lost forever. Even if transcribed they can end up being lost. When you have multiple people going through files they lose things or put them in the wrong place even files from a different case. In the Bamber case the defense did get copies of the full transcript because they timely appealed. But they didn't retain the full transcript or at least that is what they say. Maybe they really did lose some maybe they figured why help the court by providing damaging things, who knows. I can't tell you how many times I have found documents left in copy machines among other places.  Now we scan most documents and do searches of the documents looking on the computer.  This reduces the chance of losing things. There is still a chance during the scanning process of things being misfiled and lost but we rarely need to go to the "originals" anymore since we can print from the computer. If properly organized you can find things much easier on the computer than searching through the documents themselves though going through  he documents was in some ways more fun and easier on the eyes than looking at a screen all day long.  We used to have file rooms loaded with depositions now we have them on DVD so they take up much less space. You can also search through them easier since you can search for words and phrases instead of having to read them in full. Sometimes technology is a wonderful thing.  In the case of kids with cell phones or ipods glued to their hands and only caring about texting their friends all day everyday- not so much.

If someone doesn't file a timely appeal the recordings could be destroyed without ever being transcribed and  provided to the government and defendant and that will indeed make things difficult in terms of many years later trying to fight the conviction. Some companies will keep them longer than they are required to but there is never a guarantee.

[Holly Goodhead]

Comments from NGB re trial transcripts:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7303.msg346407.html#msg346407

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7303.msg346547.html#msg346547

If the court states exhibits must be retained indefinitely surely the same applies to transcripts?

[scipio_usmc]

Comments from NGB re trial transcripts:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7303.msg346407.html#msg346407

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7303.msg346547.html#msg346547

If the court states exhibits must be retained indefinitely surely the same applies to transcripts?

No if you lose you transcripts and the other party doesn't have them and the company that originally transcribed them no longer has anything then you are SOL.

In 2002 either the prosecution and Jeremy both lost their copies of Jeremy's testimony in chief or Jeremy didn't want to provide it to the prosecution and  COA and pretended he no longer had it and thus the COA was only able to see Jeremy's cross examination.  This was long after the original appeal so the company no longer kept any records.  When an appeal ends the winner and loser both are less than careful about making sure all the records are stored properly they both assume they will never need them again.  In general we keep client paper records for 7 years only.  After 7 years boom we will have them destroyed if the client doesn't want to take possession to make room for more files otherwise you need to find even more warehouse space. Renting space is costly when you have a lot of closed files.  At one point we rented space in 6 different warehouses. One warehouse was formerly an old factory built in 1900 that was actually very fun to visit and explore.

I was in charge of a giant document production there.  We had to go through files to check which ones were responsive to the document requests and those we selected were to be shipped to Florida to be scanned.  It probably costed the other side more money for the scanning than it was worth but insurance companies are run by stupid people...

This is a photo of the staging area where we were sticking the files that were responsive on pallets that were then shrink wrapped and ultimately sent to Florida.  There were 3 rows of pallets like this when all was said and done and that was only the files that wound up being responsive.  There were 10 times as many files total of ours in just this warehouse.



In the ultimate sense of irony these cases were about asbestos injuries and the warehouse had exposed asbestos pipe insulation that was corroded and friable.

   

I sent the bosses many photos and told them they better make sure they have asbestos insurance coverage, they didn't like my jokes though.