Petition re Madeleine McCann on Prime Minister's website

[Benice]

How do you think they confirmed there was an abduction then? There's nothing in the files showing that an abduction took place. The Met speculated about burglars and smelly man but there was nothing in the files to suggest any of those people were in PdL on 3rd.

You didn't answer my question  i.e. -    If SY had been instructed to ignore any evidence which pointed away from an abduction - then what did they do with such evidence if it came to light?

You seem to be forgetting that we only have some of information from the files re this case.  SY have ALL the info and also the ability to interview anyone they wish to and to make extensive background checks if necessary etc etc.  in order to establish a person's credibility or otherwise as a witness.

They also have the professional expertise and the technology necessary to investigate the case.      Anone who can't see how that puts them in a far superior position to make correct judgements than armchair detectives like us  - needs a reality check IMO.

[Carana]

11.   The BBC Crimewatch McCann Special – 4    I did not accept the likelihood that a man would take six years to come forward and say: “I am the man that Jane Tanner saw at 9.15pm on 3rd May and whom you have been looking for, for the past six years. The further claim that he was wearing almost identical clothes and his daughter almost identical pyjamas to those worn by the man and child seen by Jane Tanner seemed to add a further layer of improbability to this alleged account.

He may well have come forward before and it got lost in the mass of info. Cross-checking the evening crèche records and finding that someone of the same name had already submitted information is hopefully one of the advantages of having a comprehensive database.

[Carana]

12.    The BBC Crimewatch McCann Special – 5    All in all, I did not consider this programme to have been a genuine investigative exercise. Once again, it seemed much more to do with influencing public perception.

It received numerous calls with information... there is no way of knowing whether they have all been discounted.

[stephen25000]

You didn't answer my question  i.e. -    If SY had been instructed to ignore any evidence which pointed away from an abduction - then what did they do with such evidence if it came to light?

You seem to be forgetting that we only have some of information from the files re this case.  SY have ALL the info and also the ability to interview anyone they wish to and to make extensive background checks if necessary etc etc.  in order to establish a person's credibility or otherwise as a witness.

They also have the professional expertise and the technology necessary to investigate the case.      Anone who can't see how that puts them in a far superior position to make correct judgements than armchair detectives like us  - needs a reality check IMO.

How do you know SY have all the information they need ?

That is speculation.

[G-Unit]

Blonk:

Quote:
"2.   The clearly political nature of the decision to set up Operation Grange. I know of no other case where a Prime Minister has had to personally order an investigation, whether on our soil or foreign soil. Sometimes a British police force will, with the active co-operation of a foreign government, allow British officers to conduct enquiries in their country. But in this case, the Home Secretary had already and over a substantial period of time (a year) refused the McCanns’ request for a ‘review’. It was clear that David Cameron had to force Theresa May’s hand.

End quote




I don't see how Cameron could have "ordered" it. Ultimately, it was up to the Met Commissioner to consider it, but Stephenson could have refused if he'd been satisfied that the scoping exercise revealed no major deficiencies, which was clearly not the case.

There does indeed appear to have been Home Office inertia for a while, but UK law enforcement had been sending anything of potential interest over to PT, and that was probably considered sufficient.

They may not have fully realised that there were question marks over how seriously any incoming information to PT was being checked out...

Not only was this a young missing British subject, but there were also sexual assaults on British girls in the same area and they deserve some form of closure as well.

The scoping exercise was carried out by Jim Gamble of CEOP, and it's aim is detailed below. His conclusion was that the UK agencies went in and caused problems for the investigation and resentment among the Portuguese;

 Former Home Secretary Alan Johnson commissioned a scoping exercise by the Child Exploitation and Online Protection (Ceop) centre to look at the feasibility of carrying out a review of the case.

This was completed in March 2010, but Mr McCann said current Home Secretary Theresa May refused to let him and his wife see it because it was "sensitive".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13378289

British police forces competing to been seen to be helping find Madeleine McCann hampered the investigation and has had a long term negative effect, a secret Home Office report found.

The unpublished report by Jim Gamble, former head of the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre (CEOP), found that so many UK agencies got involved it damaged relations with Portuguese police..Mr Gamble said that within weeks of Madeleine going missing in May 2007 the Portuguese were given advice by CEOP, the Metropolitan Police, the Serious Organised Crime Agency and the National Police Improvement Agency.....

I've no doubt relationships from the outset with the Portuguese were impacted by it and I think that had a long term negative effect on the investigation and I think to this very day the Met investigation team that's engaged now are still having to manage and massage that relationship and perhaps to be fair to the Portuguese, mend some fences that were trodden on in the early days.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/11068928/Secret-Madeleine-McCann-report-finds-competing-British-forces-hampered-inquiry.html

[Carana]

"13.   Constant leaks and unlikely stories  I lost count of the procession of unlikely leads, suspects and stories, placed or leaked by Scotland Yard, which again was totally unlike any police investigation I have ever seen. Just from memory during 2012, 2013 and the early part of 2014 I can recall: (a) the dead, black tractor-driver from the Caper Verde Islands (b)M tales of burglars (c) six British men in a white van (d) an Ocean Club worker who might have had a second set of keys (e) a smelly bin man who had been approaching children in the early hours of the morning (f) more burglars (g) paedophiles who might have been in Praia da Luz I n2007, and so on. Once again, this appeared to me to be much more to do with influencing public perception and not with advancing a genuine investigation  "   

It's not known who leaked to the media. Many may have fluttered out of Faro PJ station again.

The Met have a media strategy. They did make a statement on the smelly intruder - that's understandable if they are trying to identify him and / or to encourage any other victims to come forward.

[G-Unit]

11.   The BBC Crimewatch McCann Special – 4    I did not accept the likelihood that a man would take six years to come forward and say: “I am the man that Jane Tanner saw at 9.15pm on 3rd May and whom you have been looking for, for the past six years. The further claim that he was wearing almost identical clothes and his daughter almost identical pyjamas to those worn by the man and child seen by Jane Tanner seemed to add a further layer of improbability to this alleged account.

He may well have come forward before and it got lost in the mass of info. Cross-checking the evening crèche records and finding that someone of the same name had already submitted information is hopefully one of the advantages of having a comprehensive database.

1. Were there any? Did they still exist 4 years later?
2. If they were anything like the creche attendance sheets they weren't much use.

[G-Unit]

"13.   Constant leaks and unlikely stories  I lost count of the procession of unlikely leads, suspects and stories, placed or leaked by Scotland Yard, which again was totally unlike any police investigation I have ever seen. Just from memory during 2012, 2013 and the early part of 2014 I can recall: (a) the dead, black tractor-driver from the Caper Verde Islands (b)M tales of burglars (c) six British men in a white van (d) an Ocean Club worker who might have had a second set of keys (e) a smelly bin man who had been approaching children in the early hours of the morning (f) more burglars (g) paedophiles who might have been in Praia da Luz I n2007, and so on. Once again, this appeared to me to be much more to do with influencing public perception and not with advancing a genuine investigation  "   

It's not known who leaked to the media. Many may have fluttered out of Faro PJ station again.

The Met have a media strategy. They did make a statement on the smelly intruder - that's understandable if they are trying to identify him and / or to encourage any other victims to come forward.

When the Met wanted to dig they were told by the PJ that any leaks would lead to a complete halt in their help. That suggests that the PJ weren't amused by the leaks that had already taken place. We don't know who leaked from the original investigation. There were a lot of UK people involved in PdL as well as the PJ.

[Angelo222]

From what I have seen and read since OG was commissioned, SY's prime objective is to collar somebody so that they can justify the extortionate sums spent on this case.  Even the reward, which is hidden away on the Met website, refers to a prosecution.  The reward is not for the recovery of Madeleine.  Madeleine would appear to be the least of SY's worries.

[ShiningInLuz]

G do you really believe that if any evidence emerged from the files during the investigation which cast serious doubt on an 'abuction' - then that information/evidence would be ignored because it didn't fit in with SY's remit?

What do you think SY would have done with such evidence if it existed?

Just for the record, I agree with G-Unit's description of how a large team works.  From what I can see it applies to large police teams as well.

A few at the top can see the whole of the puzzle.  Those further down get to see fragments, or the picture as portrayed by those at the top.

As to the emergence of a 'smoking gun', it is simply not going to happen, as 4 police teams and several PIs have tried and failed to find one.  If the case is solved by investigation, it is hardly likely to be finding a smoking gun.  Without that, there is no need to bring in corruption or whistleblowers.  'Such evidence' would simply go into the system and be evaluated as non-significant, not a priority.

[Benice]

From what I have seen and read since OG was commissioned, SY's prime objective is to collar somebody so that they can justify the extortionate sums spent on this case. Even the reward, which is hidden away on the Met website, refers to a prosecution.  The reward is not for the recovery of Madeleine.  Madeleine would appear to be the least of SY's worries.

How could they possibly know at the beginning of their investigations how much it was going to cost or what they were going to establish?   They couldn't see into the future.

SY's objective was to find out what happened to Madeleine and hopefully arrest the perpetrators.  Why would anyone object to that?

If they are not able to achieve that - then at least the McCanns won't have to spend the rest of their lives wondering if some vital piece of evidence is still lurking in the files, which had been ignored or overlooked by the original PJ investigation.    By no means closure - but at least they will know that everything that could be done - was done.

[Carana]

Just for the record, I agree with G-Unit's description of how a large team works.  From what I can see it applies to large police teams as well.

A few at the top can see the whole of the puzzle.  Those further down get to see fragments, or the picture as portrayed by those at the top.

As to the emergence of a 'smoking gun', it is simply not going to happen, as 4 police teams and several PIs have tried and failed to find one.  If the case is solved by investigation, it is hardly likely to be finding a smoking gun.  Without that, there is no need to bring in corruption or whistleblowers.  'Such evidence' would simply go into the system and be evaluated as non-significant, not a priority.

Even if the active current investigations come to an end, a "smoking gun" could always emerge at some point, as occasionally happens when investigating a different case and having a database to cross-check.

For instance, although it is currently not known if there is any connection between smelly-man and Madeleine's disappearance,  if there is another victim of the smelly-man type, wherever it occurs, then there would at least be some information in the database to either eliminate him as being the same person or not.

[pathfinder73]

SY have been involved in this case from the beginning.

“The McCanns have completely changed the way we now look for missing children—it used to be you go to the police; now it means you go to the media, to celebrities,” says a disapproving Scotland Yard specialist in abused children.

Analyses of the residues collected following the visit by the dogs is entrusted to the English Forensic Science Service laboratory. To avoid any leaks of information, Stuart Prior, a senior officer with Leicestershire police, is responsible for liaison between the laboratory and José Freitas of Scotland Yard. The latter, who is with us, in Portimão, is passing on any relevant reports.

Inspector Ferreira,

DNA profile of Madeleine McCann that was collected in her parents house in England.

Regards
Jose de Freitas
New Scotland Yard

The latter, aged 46, is descended from Portuguese people who settled in Madeira and emigrated to the United Kingdom to find work and a better standard of living. Violent crime, abduction and illegal confinement are the speciality of this high-ranking Scotland Yard officer, who joined us eighteen days into the investigation - the English authorities consider that the presence of a man who knows Portugal and its culture could facilitate the investigation. He speaks our language with a British accent"

Mr. Freitas was not permitted by Scotland Yard to testify on Mr. Amaral's behalf in his fight to keep his book from being banned.

[Carana]

SY have been involved in this case from the beginning.

“The McCanns have completely changed the way we now look for missing children—it used to be you go to the police; now it means you go to the media, to celebrities,” says a disapproving Scotland Yard specialist in abused children.

Analyses of the residues collected following the visit by the dogs is entrusted to the English Forensic Science Service laboratory. To avoid any leaks of information, Stuart Prior, a senior officer with Leicestershire police, is responsible for liaison between the laboratory and José Freitas of Scotland Yard. The latter, who is with us, in Portimão, is passing on any relevant reports.

Inspector Ferreira,

DNA profile of Madeleine McCann that was collected in her parents house in England.

Regards
Jose de Freitas
New Scotland Yard

The latter, aged 46, is descended from Portuguese people who settled in Madeira and emigrated to the United Kingdom to find work and a better standard of living. Violent crime, abduction and illegal confinement are the speciality of this high-ranking Scotland Yard officer, who joined us eighteen days into the investigation - the English authorities consider that the presence of a man who knows Portugal and its culture could facilitate the investigation. He speaks our language with a British accent"

Mr. Freitas was not permitted by Scotland Yard to testify on Mr. Amaral's behalf in his fight to keep his book from being banned.

What was the official statement regarding Freitas, if there was one?

[pathfinder73]

What was the official statement regarding Freitas, if there was one?

It's common sense that a SY officer would not to be allowed to reveal anything that could compromise a case they have now taken on.

'High profile reviews, such as this one, are highly emotive and the manner in which they are conducted are usually kept in strict secrecy so that the tactics and lines of enquiry that are followed do not become public knowledge thereby rendering them useless.'