Should A Police Investigation Be Left to the Police ?

[Alfred R Jones]

Can you provide a cite for that?

How many copy and pastes of various sceptics saying it would you require in order to be satisfied that it was an oft-voiced criticism levelled against the McCanns by the "sceptic" community?  Have you genuinely never seen anyone express this sentiment before?

[Carana]

I would say that the direct acts, while unacceptable and a violation of basic human rights, falls short of "vigil[ censored word]m".

The threats (molotov cocktails and all the rest) certainly amounts to (threatened!) vigil[ censored word]m.

All of it is illegal activity ....

I don't see that phone calls to get someone's permission or cooperation in a desperate search for a missing child is in the same league at all.

[G-Unit]

What would you do if the police claimed your child had been killed in an accident..... But you were sure it was murder

Instruct a solicitor and tell them your story and why you disagree with the police. They are more likely to be able to get the police to discuss the case than you are.

[Brietta]

I don't see that phone calls to get someone's permission or cooperation in a desperate search for a missing child is in the same league at all.

I don't think Jez was particularly annoyed about the contact ... "They had no objection to being included but were concerned as to the method being used." ... I think their concern centred on the method "being used" ie the private investigators.

At that time he would have had no idea at all of the way in which the case was being handled by the PJ.

[Alice Purjorick]

I would agree with that in principle.

But what does that encompass?

Jez was apparently annoyed at one point over "persistent" calls from Gerry or whoever else "they" encompassed, but it seems to have just been to get his permission to use his name.
I don't know about you but I expect to say "no" or "yes" only once politely;  I am apt to become very irritated at more than once


Several weeks later, Jeremy received calls from Gerry in relation to gaining permission from him to use his name in a portfolio of evidence being compiled by an organization employed by the McCanns. They were very persistent and made several attempts to contact him both at work and at home. They had no objection to being included but were concerned as to the method being used.
I don't know what method was used but I would expect to receive a letter , out of common courtesy, to which I could respond with a yay or nay. Then be left alone and see comment above if I wasn't.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY_BRIGET.htm

There is also a point made by a police officer who'd talked to Martin Smith, but aside from having been contacted by Brian Kennedy, the complaint seems to concern the tabloid hacks.

He has been contacted by numerous tabloid press looking for stories. He has been contacted by Mr Brian Kennedy who is supporting the McCann family to take part in a photo fit exercise. He has given no stories or helped in any photo fits. He sent a solicitor's letter to six papers in relation material that was printed that was misquoted. The Evening Herald paid his solicitor's fees and all papers printed an apology. His photograph appeared in another tabloid paper and this matter is being pursued at the moment. This seems to be getting out of order. On what basis was Kennedy approaching Smith to do a photo fit if he was ?. It sounds like tampering with a material witness. As for the tabloids they are out of order on many things

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm


Would you classfiy that as vigilante action? probably under the definition : a member of a self-appointed group of citizens who undertake any kind of quasi legal action without legal authority, typically with the excuse that the legal agencies are thought to be inadequate.

How would you classify spamming the McCanns' village and Gerry's place of work with leaflets?
Unacceptable vigilante type action

Or posting photos of people's homes, particularly at night?
See above

Or threats of kidnapping the twins to make "Kate talk"?
See above

Or a drunken threat involving the use of a Molotov cocktail?
See above
Of course threats may just be drunken or even sober trapping off by people who would scream if you bent their little finger back a bit hard if you see what I mean.
It would be up to the cops to decide whether they represented credible threats. On balance I suspect that sort of threat is yobbish rather than vigilante.

[Alice Purjorick]

Some "sceptics" believe that this is what the McCanns should have been doing themselves in Portugal for the last 9 years - not you obviously!

What they do is their business.

[Carana]

I don't think Jez was particularly annoyed about the contact ... "They had no objection to being included but were concerned as to the method being used." ... I think their concern centred on the method "being used" ie the private investigators.

At that time he would have had no idea at all of the way in which the case was being handled by the PJ.

That seems quite possible. It's quite likely that they were hassled by the tabloid hacks as well at the time.

[Mr Gray]

Instruct a solicitor and tell them your story and why you disagree with the police. They are more likely to be able to get the police to discuss the case than you are.

And the police refuse to accept your concerns

[Mr Gray]

Surely there might be an instance when an individual bias no choice but to carry out their own investigation

[Mr Gray]

So getting back on topic are there any circumstances when it would be reasonable to mount an investigation independently of the police...I would say absolutely yes

[G-Unit]

And the police refuse to accept your concerns

Which they would. The UK police take a very dim view of anyone who questions their conclusions. To change their conclusions can take years. Read the Lee Balkwell thread.

[Mr Gray]

Which they would. The UK police take a very dim view of anyone who questions their conclusions. To change their conclusions can take years. Read the Lee Balkwell thread.

Therefore there would be justification for starting your own investigation

[G-Unit]

So getting back on topic are there any circumstances when it would be reasonable to mount an investigation independently of the police...I would say absolutely yes

To what end? Only the police have the powers needed to investigate. They can investigate people's backgrounds, get telephone records, listen to telephone conversations, interview people, apply for search warrants, seize CCTV tapes, collect forensic evidence and have it tested and whatever else needs to be done.

Other investigators can do none of that. Their attempts to interview people can upset witnesses and warn perpetrators. We have a perfect example of attempts by PI's to investigate the McCann case and the resulting mess and confusion.

[Mr Gray]

To what end? Only the police have the powers needed to investigate. They can investigate people's backgrounds, get telephone records, listen to telephone conversations, interview people, apply for search warrants, seize CCTV tapes, collect forensic evidence and have it tested and whatever else needs to be done.

Other investigators can do none of that. Their attempts to interview people can upset witnesses and warn perpetrators. We have a perfect example of attempts by PI's to investigate the McCann case and the resulting mess and confusion.

But if the police. Have given up...... Then why shouldn't an individual start there own investigation

[Alfred R Jones]

To what end? Only the police have the powers needed to investigate. They can investigate people's backgrounds, get telephone records, listen to telephone conversations, interview people, apply for search warrants, seize CCTV tapes, collect forensic evidence and have it tested and whatever else needs to be done.

Other investigators can do none of that. Their attempts to interview people can upset witnesses and warn perpetrators. We have a perfect example of attempts by PI's to investigate the McCann case and the resulting mess and confusion.

So we can safely say that all the armchair detectives who've been investigating this case for the last nine years, taking holidays to PdL, photographing the crap out of every manhole cover and back street alley and forcing open shutters willy nilly have been completely wasting their time too then, at least we can agree on that.