Richard Hall's film 'When Madeleine Died?' uploaded to YouTube 19th Feb

[ShiningInLuz]

Perhaps an elementary question, but what doesn't that so-called PDL one have a location as a label?

It could simply be protecting one's sources.

I have a screen cap of someone tracking the Faro data who meets Mr Hall's description.  I would consider it extremely bad form to publish someone's personal details.  So if I ever round to publishing the screen cap, all personal data of said person will get removed first.

[Carana]

It could simply be protecting one's sources.

I have a screen cap of someone tracking the Faro data who meets Mr Hall's description.  I would consider it extremely bad form to publish someone's personal details.  So if I ever round to publishing the screen cap, all personal data of said person will get removed first.

Is it an issue if the person in question posted it on an open forum? If it was meant to be private, why post it in public in the first place? Or was this privately obtained information that got repeated?

For the moment I have no idea whether the alleged "PdL" chart originally came from the same source who allegedly commented on PDL weather that night.

If so, the weather still seems far more like Faro than Sagres, and I still wonder how that person arrived at his apartment to no unusual noise in the village at 11.45 pm on 3 May when everyone was apparently out searching for Madeleine.

[Carana]

Unless there is more than one ex-pat former RAF chap living in tiny PdL, it's fairly obvious who that is.

His identity still doesn't answer my questions, though...

[Carana]

@ SIL

I'm still looking at 3 May at the moment.

I'll accept, for the moment, that the Hall /Havern chart may, possibly have come from an unofficial personal weather gadget with software analysis support.

It's also possible that it's a weather chart for the local golf club in nearby Lagos (to the east of PdL, but reasonably close). However, if that were the case, wouldn't wind speed have been a useful factor for golfing aficionados? The chart shown doesn't indicate wind speed.

I have a still of the weekly chart (location undetermined) as shown on Hall's video. By happy coincidence, by stopping the video and making it fullscreen, the vertical lines between the days are around 25.2 mm in width. Assuming that the lines represent a 24-hour period from midnight to midnight - with a ruler - the hours can be calculated with a very short margin error.

So, examining the weather on that chart (with an error margin of 15-30 mins, depending on how you squint to approximate a subdivision of 1 mm):

"Hall" 's chart of undetermined location:
Thurs, 3 May

Max temp (19°C): 19-20:00
High-cloud cover: 17-20:00

The 17°C temp was from 10-14:00, then rose slightly as of 14:00 to 17.5° ish, until it rose again at around 16:00 to 18°C), then to 19°C somewhere between 19-20:00 (the bullet point denoting this is wider than 1 mm when blowing this up).

By 22:00, temp back down to 17°C and dropping further through the night.

That chart, as depicted in the video, does not provide wind speed data, just the general direction: overnight, sometime during the day and the following late night/overnight direction.

Back to Hall's narration of this with his cursor:


"On the Thursday there was about 50% cloud cover from dawn, rising to nearly 100% cloud cover by the early afternoon." @10:15-40 ish.

- What is "early afternoon"? That 3mm / 3-vertical-bar max cloud cover was from 17:00-20:00 (give or take 15 mins or so).

- "... The temperature chart shows us that the temperature on Thursday rose from a cool 13 degrees C (55 degrees Fahrenheit) in the morning, to just 17 degrees C (63 degrees Fahrenheit) around mid-day, when the photo was supposed to have been taken."

The 17°C temp plateau was from 10-14:00, then rose slightly as of 14:00 to 17.5° ish, until it rose again at around 16:00 to 18°C, then again to the day's max of 19°C somewhere around 20:00.

My first conclusion is that, wherever that chart was supposed to be located, Hall's narration is not only inaccurate, but even a visual glance shows that the alleged time of the high cloud cover does not correspond vertically to the temperature described.

- There is no visible wind speed on that chart, so comments about no visible hair movement in the "last photo" must presumably come from a different source. Which source would that have been?

[xtina]

it wasn't weather..in Faro...or Sagres


what was on the film was ...........Luz/Lagos

[ShiningInLuz]

...

- There is no visible wind speed on that chart, so comments about no visible hair movement in the "last photo" must presumably come from a different source. Which source would that have been?

If the wind was W or NW at the time, there would be no hair movement.  In The Last Photo, the background indicates the size of the wall to the N.  The photo of Madeleine by the tree (with Ella removed) indicates the size of the wall to the W.

The children's pool is a well-sheltered sun trap.

It would take wind with an E component (NE, E, SE) to ruffle hair in there.  I'm not sure what would happen with wind from the S.  The biggest building in Luz, LuzTur, is to the S, but it is some distance off.

[ShiningInLuz]

it wasn't weather..in Faro...or Sagres


what was on the film was ...........Luz/Lagos

What was said may have been asserted to have been Luz/Lagos, but that does not make it so.  That would require a weather station in Luz/Lagos of high quality, and there is no evidence of such.

[xtina]

What was said may have been asserted to have been Luz/Lagos, but that does not make it so.  That would require a weather station in Luz/Lagos of high quality, and there is no evidence of such.

so it cannot be proved one way or another then ........

its just a shame if Carena spends a lot of time researching something that isn't there

[Brietta]

so it cannot be proved one way or another then ........

its just a shame if Carena spends a lot of time researching something that isn't there

Surely the content of your post indicates a major flaw in Richard Hall's claims.  Is he conjuring up something that isn't there?  On balance ... I would say so if his 'research' can neither be sourced or replicated.

[xtina]

Surely the content of your post indicates a major flaw in Richard Hall's claims.  Is he conjuring up something that isn't there?  On balance ... I would say so if his 'research' can neither be sourced or replicated.

stop twisting my words/post ...you shouldn't do that ...especially the position you are in...how can you respond fairly ...when you admit to not seeing the film also



Surely the content of your post indicates a major flaw in Richard Hall's claims

no it certainly does not claim there is a flaw in what R H says..............he hasn't been proved wrong....

Is he conjuring up something that isn't there?  On balance ... I would say so if his 'research' can neither be sourced or replicated.

it is Carena ....who is searching for something that isn't there.....

[ShiningInLuz]

so it cannot be proved one way or another then ........

its just a shame if Carena spends a lot of time researching something that isn't there

Thinking out loud, the forum where this chart appears to originate should have nailed this a long time back.

It can be proved quite easily, by Mr Hall stating a precise source for his weather chart.  Otherwise it leaves Mr Hall with a significant credibility issue, as his video relies upon The Last Photo not fitting the weather chart as a key component of shifting Madeleine's disappearance further back in time.  A pivotal piece of 'evidence' which we are required to take on trust.

It is harder to disprove it.  I can locate the ex-pat, ex-RAF man without too much difficulty.  It isn't worth the effort of querying him over the matter.  Whatever the outcome, it can be glossed over by any Hall supporter, in a variety of ways.

What can be done is a bit more interesting, because it actually puts something into the pot.  And that is simply to build the 1 week composite chart for Sagres, ditto for Faro.  Those have a value. 

And then do a comparison with Mr Hall's chart, which will add only a little, if I am correct that his chart does not match either.  It just might give me enough information to narrow down Mr Hall's source.

[John]

Thinking out loud, the forum where this chart appears to originate should have nailed this a long time back.

It can be proved quite easily, by Mr Hall stating a precise source for his weather chart.  Otherwise it leaves Mr Hall with a significant credibility issue, as his video relies upon The Last Photo not fitting the weather chart as a key component of shifting Madeleine's disappearance further back in time.  A pivotal piece of 'evidence' which we are required to take on trust.

It is harder to disprove it.  I can locate the ex-pat, ex-RAF man without too much difficulty.  It isn't worth the effort of querying him over the matter.  Whatever the outcome, it can be glossed over by any Hall supporter, in a variety of ways.

What can be done is a bit more interesting, because it actually puts something into the pot.  And that is simply to build the 1 week composite chart for Sagres, ditto for Faro.  Those have a value. 

And then do a comparison with Mr Hall's chart, which will add only a little, if I am correct that his chart does not match either.  It just might give me enough information to narrow down Mr Hall's source.

Shining, can I ask if you received any response from Team McCann to your kind offer of help?

[xtina]

Thinking out loud, the forum where this chart appears to originate should have nailed this a long time back.

It can be proved quite easily, by Mr Hall stating a precise source for his weather chart.  Otherwise it leaves Mr Hall with a significant credibility issue, as his video relies upon The Last Photo not fitting the weather chart as a key component of shifting Madeleine's disappearance further back in time.  A pivotal piece of 'evidence' which we are required to take on trust.

It is harder to disprove it.  I can locate the ex-pat, ex-RAF man without too much difficulty.  It isn't worth the effort of querying him over the matter.  Whatever the outcome, it can be glossed over by any Hall supporter, in a variety of ways.

What can be done is a bit more interesting, because it actually puts something into the pot.  And that is simply to build the 1 week composite chart for Sagres, ditto for Faro.  Those have a value. 

And then do a comparison with Mr Hall's chart, which will add only a little, if I am correct that his chart does not match either.  It just might give me enough information to narrow down Mr Hall's source.

well the best thing there then is to not discredit R H ....but to ask him ...he is quite easy to reach ...and take that up with him...i cant see though why he should have to explain himself to you

he has not been challenged so far ............about anything in his films ....

or they wouldn't be there .....and its not as-if the mccs haven't the right people in place to do that

[ShiningInLuz]

Shining, can I ask if you received any response from Team McCann to your kind offer of help?

I delayed over the Easter break, in case the McCanns were on holiday.  Then I delayed a bit longer, in case Gerry had a backlog from a break.  Then the Leveson thing hit the media.

My contact email went in early this morning.  The email address I am using may well have a gatekeeper on it - I would expect that to be the case.  I think it will be about a week before I have an idea on whether this is a dead end or not.

[ShiningInLuz]

well the best thing there then is to not discredit R H ....but to ask him ...he is quite easy to reach ...and take that up with him...i cant see though why he should have to explain himself to you

he has not been challenged so far ............about anything in his films ....

or they wouldn't be there .....and its not as-if the mccs haven't the right people in place to do that

One of the forum rules is that personal attacks are not permitted, so I have been very careful in not discrediting Mr Hall per se.  However, I am able to analyse/criticise ideas or theories raised on this forum, and Mr Hall's work has been allowed to remain as a topic, even despite suggestions the entire topic should be deleted.  And analysing/criticising Mr Hall's work is what I am doing.

There is nothing to prevent Mr Hall from passing comment, here or elsewhere, on my analysis.

Mr Hall has, to date, posted a single comment on my blog.  The comment pointed out a piece of faulty analysis in one of my articles.  As his comment was civil, I approved it, even though I thought he was wrong at the time.  After giving it further consideration, I came to the viewpoint Mr Hall was correct on that occasion.  I therefore added a comment stating that I realised Mr Hall was correct.  So I am hardly closed-minded.

This is not an advertising forum, but Mr Hall's work now has many links to it from this topic, which I understand boosts search engine ratings, thus aiding the promotion of Mr Hall's work.

As to the issue of whether Mr Hall's work has been challenged, it most certainly has in this topic.  It does not need McCann aides or supporters for that.  Indeed, the reaction of supporters on here has been in the main dismissive rather than analytical/critical, IMO.

You appear to be generally supportive of Mr Hall's video and you state Mr Hall is easy to reach.  You are well-placed, therefore, to pass on to Mr Hall any issues that you cannot personally resolve.

I can well remember the days when I was a newbie, and I found it very difficult to sort fact from fiction.  I am trying to ensure that readers of this thread who are less familiar with the case do not suffer this issue.