"they didn't check on them like they afterwards declared they did" claim.

[Alfred R Jones]

And again, she is quoting from what she was able to find in the files... i.e. that someone had stated it.

If one understood as facts that have been ascertained in the investigation those that, with rigour and according to procedural-penal dogmatism, resulted from the investigation, it is believed that only one would deserve that qualification – the disappearance of Madeleine MacCann.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id505.html

^^^^^ THIS.

[John]

PROVED FACTS

Taking into account the matter considered undisputed in the selection of facts and the decision handed down in due course after producing the matter of evidence and discussing the case, the following facts are demonstrated :

6. The British police dogs “Eddie” and “Keela” detected human blood and cadaver in the apartment 5A, Ocean Club [alínea AR) of the undisputed facts].

7. The British police dogs “Eddie” and “Keela” detected human blood and cadaver in a vehicle rented by the claimants after the disappearance of MMC [alínea AS) of the undisputed facts].

Without searching through everything paragraph AR and AS of the 'undisputed facts' ?

[Eleanor]

Are we saying that Judges in Portugal have a right to rule on Criminal evidence in the total absence of a Trial, the presence of a Witness, or a Defence?

[Mr Gray]

could someone explain how the proven facts contain unproven facts

[Carana]

Obviously the guests to this forum probably already have an interest in this forum and will know what the court found or proved or not proved.

Guests reading this forum may take opinion as fact, particularly if the two are not clearly distinguished.

[Carana]

could someone explain how the proven facts contain unproven facts

Heaven knows I've tried....

(Lyrics to a song)

[Mr Gray]

Heaven knows I've tried....

you have explained it very well...it seems other posters can or will not understand

[Angelo222]

Far be it for me to detract from the herculean efforts being made to discredit Portuguese justice but undisputed facts mean exactly that, undisputed.

[Angelo222]

Heaven knows I've tried....

(Lyrics to a song)

Not very well imo

[ferryman]

Without searching through everything paragraph AR and AS of the 'undisputed facts' ?

Undisputed that the assertion (is in the files).

Nothing else.

[Alfred R Jones]

Are we saying that Judges in Portugal have a right to rule on Criminal evidence in the total absence of a Trial, the presence of a Witness, or a Defence?

Looks like it!

[Alfred R Jones]

Not very well imo

Carana, John and myself have all explained it very well, I think even Alice had a go.  The fact that you stubbornly refuse to accept what is blindingly obvious to the rest of us is your problem, or perhaps you're just doing it because you know it winds people up?

[Angelo222]

Carana, John and myself have all explained it very well, I think even Alice had a go.  The fact that you stubbornly refuse to accept what is blindingly obvious to the rest of us is your problem, or perhaps you're just doing it because you know it winds people up?

Nothing you have stated changes the Archive Report regardless of what a judge eight years later attached to her ruling.  The police found the checking claim to be unsubstantiated.

[sadie]

No Carana, that is what you were appearing to do ?

Now just to help you out, here are the questions I asked you, which you did not respond to.

' So  you think the McCann's told the truth about the checking system ?

Can you remind us of how many times on May the 3rd, either of them checked and/or viewed their children directly after going to wine and dine ?  '

stephen, I have done this before for you.  Why are you choosing not to remember it ?


Mcc's left the apartment at 8.30, having checked that the children were sleeping.

Gerry did first check 35 mins later at 9.05

Kate got up to check at 9'30/9.35 pm, but Matt, who was doing his own check, offered to do it for Kate.  Matt went into apartment 5A ,, saw the twins sleeping but Madeleine was out of sight around the corner.  All was peaceful so he naturally assumed all was well with Madeleine.

Kate did her check at about 10pm to find Madeleine missing.


So:
Arrived 8.30
Gerry checked 9.05
Matt checked 9.35
Kate checked 10.00


Every half hour checked.  Matt did an additional audio check by listening at the window (at about 9 pm IIRC.)  Despite this Gerry rechecked, presumably he felt that he preferred a sighted check.


Now, stephen will you please stop bringing up this same old chestnut.  Seems that by any means you are trying to demean and destroy the Mccanns
How about being honest and decent?.

[pathfinder73]

Sadie, Matt and Russ left to check at 9:25 according to them both after their starters not 9:30/35. And Matt said Kate left to check at 9:50 not 10.

"Some minutes later, at 21h25, the deponent went to his apartment to do a further check, he having done that together with ROB who intended to do the same with his two girls. "

"By the way, he clarifies that that news had been communicated to all the friends who were in the Tapas by KM subsequent to her having personally been to her flat to check that her children were well.

The question asked, he relates that she had gone there alone to do that at 21:50. "

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-10MAY.htm

Name: Russell James O'Brien
Date: 2007/05/11

"Around 21h25, taking advantage of a pause in the service of the first plate, the deponent left the restaurant with Matthew Oldfield to check on the children."

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN.htm