Why are some people so averse to parental involvement in this case

[Alfred R Jones]

Feel free to hold this opinion.  As I said, I gave up on your opinion months back.

As to influencing others, I'm simply putting facts into the pool of information, which they are free to take on board, or otherwise, as they so choose.

Is it a fact that the McCanns and their friends were more interested in instigating road blocks and closing ports than they were in contacting the police, as you claimed?  It's such a stupid claim I can barely believe I'm having to write it.

[Alfred R Jones]

Therein lies the point.  You are building in an assumption that no one in the police or the emergency services speaks English within Portugal.  I know for a fact that they do, and why they do.

As to Indonesia, it is simply not comparable.  HOWEVER, I would anticipate that if Indonesia has a significant tourist trade based on Australians, and knowing that Australians speak English, I would be ASTOUNDED to find that an exchange in very plain and simple English would not get through to the Indonesian authorities.

Portugal v UK.  Two different languages with a shared origin.  Portuguese folks who are obliged to study English in school for years on end.

Indonesia v Australia.  Two different languages with no shared origin (I think).  And I have no idea if any English is taught in Indonesian schools.

Popping back to the T9 situation, does anyone else think that NOT asking for an emergency number was the way to go?

(Apologies for the caps. I am not shouting.  For some reason, I cannot get the smileys to work or any emphasis method, so all I've got left is caps.)

If I had been in the McCanns position I would have done exactly what they did.  I would not have spent minutes googling the emergency number, or riffling about for OC paperwork,  or translating phrases to speak to the operator or police who may or may not have spoken English, I would have gone straight to someone who would know straight away a) who to phone and b) what to say and c) to give accurate information about my location.  But why am I telling you this?  You don't care for my opinion, and it will only reinforce Carly's belief that I think that the world revolves around me.   

[Alfred R Jones]

Allegedly. The receptionist was a terrible witness but he didn't mention seeing Matt or Gerald. Did Gerald ask the receptionist if he'd seen a little girl? Apparently not. Did he ask Charlotte Pennington, who was on duty at the night creche if she'd seen the child? Apparently not. Did he say in his statements that he went to the Mini Club? No. The receptionist said Gerald came with John Hill. Kate says John Hill came to the apartment at 10.35. If he then went with Gerald to reception that fits, because the first phone call was six minutes later.

Charlotte should have been at the Mini Club because Jacqueline says she stayed to wait for the remaining parents, who had until 11pm to collect their children. She was still there when the missing child procedure was started at 10.25pm;

The witness immediately helped in the searches, whilst her colleague Charlotte remained at the crêche, looking after the other children that were there and waiting for the arrival of the last parents, after which she also began searching.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JACQUELINE_WILLIAMS.htm

Gerald's arguido statement. Would that have been when he went with John Hill then? He doesn't mention going twice and the receptionist saw him once, with John Hill.

 While the guests and employees of the resort were searching, he went to the main Reception to check whether they had called the Police, and told Kate to wait inside the apartment. After going to the Reception he went back to the apartment where he stayed in the living room and in their bedroom.

So, you seem to be implying that no one from the group went to the OC to ask them to phone the police, and that Matt & "Gerald" are lying, correct?

[Alfred R Jones]

If they are doctors and don't understand terms in Greek and Latin I don't want them anywhere near to treating me.

Would you want someone ignorant of Greek and Latin terms treating you?  Someone, say, who could not tell the difference between hyper and hypo?

That would be truly scary.

You seem to be saying that because the McCanns are doctors that should give them an automatic ability to communicate in Portuguese at some level.  I've heard it all now....  

[Eleanor]

Therein lies the point.  You are building in an assumption that no one in the police or the emergency services speaks English within Portugal.  I know for a fact that they do, and why they do.

As to Indonesia, it is simply not comparable.  HOWEVER, I would anticipate that if Indonesia has a significant tourist trade based on Australians, and knowing that Australians speak English, I would be ASTOUNDED to find that an exchange in very plain and simple English would not get through to the Indonesian authorities.

Portugal v UK.  Two different languages with a shared origin.  Portuguese folks who are obliged to study English in school for years on end.

Indonesia v Australia.  Two different languages with no shared origin (I think).  And I have no idea if any English is taught in Indonesian schools.

Popping back to the T9 situation, does anyone else think that NOT asking for an emergency number was the way to go?

(Apologies for the caps. I am not shouting.  For some reason, I cannot get the smileys to work or any emphasis method, so all I've got left is caps.)

There is some misguided opinion that French people learn English at school.  This is entirely untrue.  They don't.  Very few people that I come across actually do, although there is no reason for why they should.

If I needed help then I would be able in some small measure to ask for it, but in no way would I depend on my ability to speak to The Emergency Services, certainly not in a state of collapse.
So to suggest that The McCanns should have asked for the number is a bit silly and unfeeling.

[Mr Gray]

If they are doctors and don't understand terms in Greek and Latin I don't want them anywhere near to treating me.

Would you want someone ignorant of Greek and Latin terms treating you?  Someone, say, who could not tell the difference between hyper and hypo?

That would be truly scary.

That's a silly thing to say they will know those terms from their studies without having to study Greek or Latin
I think it's totally unfair to expect them to know abduction is similar in Portuguese as most words seem to be entirely different
English evidently comes from the same root as German

[ShiningInLuz]

You seem to be saying that because the McCanns are doctors that should give them an automatic ability to communicate in Portuguese at some level.  I've heard it all now....

As per usual, you are attributing to me something I did not say. Not the smartest attempt at discussion.

The McCanns spoke to EVERYONE on their holiday in English, EVEN the Portuguese people.

They hired transport from the airport.  In English.
They booked into the Ocean Club.  In English.
They dealt with maintenance staff.  In English.
They bought food from the supermarket.  In English.
They ordered food and drink.  In English.
Someone in the group booked the Tapas, explaining the situation.  In English.
They arranged the loan of a buggy, for the beach trip. In English.

Just how much English do local Portuguese people have to speak before you concede that communication was CONSISTENTLY in English, not Portuguese?

So how can you possibly claim they thought the emergency services were unable to speak English, when every other Portuguese person they met did?

[ShiningInLuz]

There is some misguided opinion that French people learn English at school.  This is entirely untrue.  They don't.  Very few people that I come across actually do, although there is no reason for why they should.

If I needed help then I would be able in some small measure to ask for it, but in no way would I depend on my ability to speak to The Emergency Services, certainly not in a state of collapse.
So to suggest that The McCanns should have asked for the number is a bit silly and unfeeling.

What?

When did the incident get moved to France?  What has France got to do with it?  I do not know about the system in France and I don't care, because it is not Portugal, where the incident happened.

I DO know that in Portugal teaching English at school is mandatory for at least 8 years, and that requirement has been in place for years.  This came from a Portuguese hairdresser, speaking in fluent English.

The McCanns consistently spoke to Portuguese people in English, as did the rest of the Tapas 9.  To not ask for the number is more than a bit silly, and unfeeling towards Madeleine.

[Brietta]

If I had been in the McCanns position I would have done exactly what they did.  I would not have spent minutes googling the emergency number, or riffling about for OC paperwork,  or translating phrases to speak to the operator or police who may or may not have spoken English, I would have gone straight to someone who would know straight away a) who to phone and b) what to say and c) to give accurate information about my location.  But why am I telling you this?  You don't care for my opinion, and it will only reinforce Carly's belief that I think that the world revolves around me.   

Just common sense.

Most people directly involved in such a situation would possibly be finding it difficult to communicate effectively in their native tongue.

A reception desk can be expected to have emergency numbers, contacts, procedures and the training to set everything in motion.

[Brietta]

As per usual, you are attributing to me something I did not say. Not the smartest attempt at discussion.

The McCanns spoke to EVERYONE on their holiday in English, EVEN the Portuguese people.

They hired transport from the airport.  In English.
They booked into the Ocean Club.  In English.
They dealt with maintenance staff.  In English.
They bought food from the supermarket.  In English.
They ordered food and drink.  In English.
Someone in the group booked the Tapas, explaining the situation.  In English.
They arranged the loan of a buggy, for the beach trip. In English.

Just how much English do local Portuguese people have to speak before you concede that communication was CONSISTENTLY in English, not Portuguese?

So how can you possibly claim they thought the emergency services were unable to speak English, when every other Portuguese person they met did?

We are told ... Mr Amaral doesn't speak English.

[Alfred R Jones]

As per usual, you are attributing to me something I did not say. Not the smartest attempt at discussion.

The McCanns spoke to EVERYONE on their holiday in English, EVEN the Portuguese people.

They hired transport from the airport.  In English.
They booked into the Ocean Club.  In English.
They dealt with maintenance staff.  In English.
They bought food from the supermarket.  In English.
They ordered food and drink.  In English.
Someone in the group booked the Tapas, explaining the situation.  In English.
They arranged the loan of a buggy, for the beach trip. In English.

Just how much English do local Portuguese people have to speak before you concede that communication was CONSISTENTLY in English, not Portuguese?

So how can you possibly claim they thought the emergency services were unable to speak English, when every other Portuguese person they met did?

Perhaps you can point me to this claim I am alleged to have made?   And whilst you're at it perhaps you can explain your reason for making this apparent completely off-topic observation unless by it you were implying that the McCanns should have found it easier to communicate in Portuguese by dint of their chosen profession?

If they are doctors and don't understand terms in Greek and Latin I don't want them anywhere near to treating me.

Would you want someone ignorant of Greek and Latin terms treating you?  Someone, say, who could not tell the difference between hyper and hypo?

and this

Not a reasonable test, though, as 'posh' words in English and Portuguese come from Latin, and so are very similar in languages with a root in Latin.  If two medical doctors did not know this, then please keep them off my case.

[ShiningInLuz]

That's a silly thing to say they will know those terms from their studies without having to study Greek or Latin
I think it's totally unfair to expect them to know abduction is similar in Portuguese as most words seem to be entirely different
English evidently comes from the same root as German

If you think a medical doctor does not know that medical terms come from Greek and Latin then we inhabit different realities.

I said 'posh' English words originate in Greek or Latin.  Four letter words tend to have the same root as German.  Abduction is not a four letter word.

[ShiningInLuz]

Just common sense.

Most people directly involved in such a situation would possibly be finding it difficult to communicate effectively in their native tongue.

A reception desk can be expected to have emergency numbers, contacts, procedures and the training to set everything in motion.

And that, is precisely what the McCanns did not do.

[Mr Gray]

If you think a medical doctor does not know that medical terms come from Greek and Latin then we inhabit different realities.

I said 'posh' English words originate in Greek or Latin.  Four letter words tend to have the same root as German.  Abduction is not a four letter word.

Read my post again and you will see I never said that...my family has a medical background so I am well aware of what doctors do and do not know....Ordering a beer in a bar is not the same as trying to explain your daughter has disappeared

[Eleanor]

What?

When did the incident get moved to France?  What has France got to do with it?  I do not know about the system in France and I don't care, because it is not Portugal, where the incident happened.

I DO know that in Portugal teaching English at school is mandatory for at least 8 years, and that requirement has been in place for years.  This came from a Portuguese hairdresser, speaking in fluent English.

The McCanns consistently spoke to Portuguese people in English, as did the rest of the Tapas 9.  To not ask for the number is more than a bit silly, and unfeeling towards Madeleine.

You obviously didn't read my post with any attempt to understand. I was perfectly able to buy a Kilo of Butter and Lamb Chop without being able to speak a foreign language.  So grocery buying was the least of my problems.

I would dispute "Mandatory", unless you can come up with a proven cite for that.  But then "Hairdressers" always were a par for the course.

The fact remains that most English people would not be able to speak a foreign language under duress, and nor would any foreigner be able to explain themselves under similar circumstances.
So it is silly and unfeeling to expect otherwise.