Why don't people believe the Mccanns story of Abduction ?

[Lace]

Thank you for a reasoned response, Lace. I will answer each point with my thoughts.

I don't know what time you are assuming the child could have died or why there would be a need to clear up. As to decision making, again, it depends on the time available and the people involved. Some people think very clearly in an emergency and can quickly evaluate the situation and make decisions. Not everyone falls apart.

You are assuming the McCanns didn't know the area. They could have been very familiar with it, they had been there for six days and did a lot of running around the area in that time. You may be right, but it's not a definite.

Kate's friends found her reaction terrible, but there's no way they could know what caused it. Naturally, given the circumstances, they assumed it was the abduction of her daughter.

I do not subscribe to Amaral's theory, so that's not relevant for me.

I am referring to the time when either Gerry did his check or Kate.    I can't believe that if Gerry found Madeleine dead,   he would have been able to clean up [Amaral believes Madeleine fell from the sofa and hit her head and that the blood under the tile was hers]   decided not to ring for an ambulance but instead hid her body all of this in time to chat quite casually and calmly to Jez by about quarter past nine.

Or if it was Kate who found Madeleine,  to do the same,   but put on an act that Madeleine  had been abducted where on earth would she have hidden Madeleine?

You say that some can deal with stress,   well the McCann's couldn't,   they may well have been trained to deal with other people's stress but when it came down to the disappearance of their daughter they were out of their minds.

[Lace]

Or abductorman could purely be a figment of your imagination.

My opinion was asked for.   

[pathfinder73]

The above are one part of the many problems with the story, not the totality. The problems create doubt not guilt

I find it laughable that people are ignorant of the fact that four people were told during the night of 3rd/4th May that the apartment had been broken into. People were woken up in the middle of the night to be told. They were told the front door was lying open, not the bedroom door.

Perhaps you can explain who moved that bedroom door between 8.30pm and 9.05pm? It wasn't crecheman, No-one was hiding in the apartment during Gerry's visit. It is said to have moved again by the time Matt checked. Who did that? It wasn't the 'abductor because the shutters were closed. Don't congratulate yourself on your cleverness unless you can explain that without resorting to opinion or imagination.

Mrs Fenn told Gerry he could use her phone to call the police 10 minutes before they were. But was told it has already been done. Did he phone Matt to check that it had been done? No. Matt didn't see Gerry from when they split up to search until he came to reception at 10:40.

"Mrs Fenn asked the father, Gerry, what was happening to which he replied that a small girl had been abducted. When asked, she replied that she did not leave her apartment, just spoke to Gerry from her balcony, which had a view over the terrace of the floor below. She found it strange that Gerry when said that a girl had been abducted, he did not mention that it was his daughter and that he did not mention any other scenarios. At that moment she offered Gerry help, saying that he could use her phone to contact the authorities, to which he replied that this had already been done. It was just after 22.30."

[G-Unit]

Are you stating as a fact that the abductor was not hiding in 5a when Gerry did his check?

It is quite possible that the abductor entered the children's bedroom after Matthew did his check,  Matthew listened outside the children's  window.   The abductor may have thought that he was safe for half an hour after Matthew left.    He was then disturbed by Gerry,   he could easily have hidden in the parents bedroom or behind the sofa in the lounge area,   Gerry wouldn't be expecting anyone to be in 5a so he wouldn't be looking for anyone hiding.    Or the abductor could easily have slipped out through the front door when he heard Gerry coming.

Then when Gerry left,    he opened the window so if he was disturbed suddenly he had a way of escape.

How did he enter the apartment? Where was he when he heard Gerry coming? Would he have heard him when he was outside the patio doors or only when he slid them open? If the shutters were up and the window open when Matt checked why didn't he notice? Kate found the shutters, window and curtains open, remember. The curtains were closed according to Matt.

[ShiningInLuz]

Are you stating as a fact that the abductor was not hiding in 5a when Gerry did his check?

It is quite possible that the abductor entered the children's bedroom after Matthew did his check,  Matthew listened outside the children's  window.   The abductor may have thought that he was safe for half an hour after Matthew left.    He was then disturbed by Gerry,   he could easily have hidden in the parents bedroom or behind the sofa in the lounge area,   Gerry wouldn't be expecting anyone to be in 5a so he wouldn't be looking for anyone hiding.    Or the abductor could easily have slipped out through the front door when he heard Gerry coming.

Then when Gerry left,    he opened the window so if he was disturbed suddenly he had a way of escape.

The sofa bit depends on Gerry not noticing the sofa he says he had pushed up against the wall to stop the kids playing behind it had now moved forward enough to conceal an abductor behind.

Did Gerry check in the parent's bedroom?  I thought he had re the moved door and the thought Madeleine might have gone there.  I can't remember so if anyone can spare me another trawl through his statements, I would be grateful for clarification.

[jassi]

The sofa bit depends on Gerry not noticing the sofa he says he had pushed up against the wall to stop the kids playing behind it had now moved forward enough to conceal an abductor behind.

Did Gerry check in the parent's bedroom?  I thought he had re the moved door and the thought Madeleine might have gone there.  I can't remember so if anyone can spare me another trawl through his statements, I would be grateful for clarification.

Didn't he stand looking down on his daughter & thinking how lucky was - while all the time abductorman was holding his breath while standing in a non-existent space behind the door ?
If so, why should he check his bedroom?

[pathfinder73]

I am referring to the time when either Gerry did his check or Kate.    I can't believe that if Gerry found Madeleine dead,   he would have been able to clean up [Amaral believes Madeleine fell from the sofa and hit her head and that the blood under the tile was hers]   decided not to ring for an ambulance but instead hid her body all of this in time to chat quite casually and calmly to Jez by about quarter past nine.

Or if it was Kate who found Madeleine,  to do the same,   but put on an act that Madeleine  had been abducted where on earth would she have hidden Madeleine?

You say that some can deal with stress,   well the McCann's couldn't,   they may well have been trained to deal with other people's stress but when it came down to the disappearance of their daughter they were out of their minds.

I thought detectives look for any routine changes from the norm and start there. One that stands out from the norm was hours before Gerry said he did a check. Gerry himself said he did his first visual check of the week and had his last proud father moment which was another routine change from the norm.

[ShiningInLuz]

Mrs Fenn told Gerry he could use her phone to call the police 10 minutes before they were. But was told it has already been done. Did he phone Matt to check that it had been done? No. Matt didn't see Gerry from when they split up to search until he came to reception at 10:40.

"Mrs Fenn asked the father, Gerry, what was happening to which he replied that a small girl had been abducted. When asked, she replied that she did not leave her apartment, just spoke to Gerry from her balcony, which had a view over the terrace of the floor below. She found it strange that Gerry when said that a girl had been abducted, he did not mention that it was his daughter and that he did not mention any other scenarios. At that moment she offered Gerry help, saying that he could use her phone to contact the authorities, to which he replied that this had already been done. It was just after 22.30."

Hmm.  I wonder why Kate's book seems to be quite at odds with this?  Roughly speaking, around 11pm, a woman above asked what the noise was, and when told what had happened, gave a neutral response, offered no help, and "I recall that in our outrage, Fiona and I shouted back something rather short and to the point."

Were there two women appearing above?

[G-Unit]

I am referring to the time when either Gerry did his check or Kate.    I can't believe that if Gerry found Madeleine dead,   he would have been able to clean up [Amaral believes Madeleine fell from the sofa and hit her head and that the blood under the tile was hers]   decided not to ring for an ambulance but instead hid her body all of this in time to chat quite casually and calmly to Jez by about quarter past nine.

Or if it was Kate who found Madeleine,  to do the same,   but put on an act that Madeleine  had been abducted where on earth would she have hidden Madeleine?

You say that some can deal with stress,   well the McCann's couldn't,   they may well have been trained to deal with other people's stress but when it came down to the disappearance of their daughter they were out of their minds.

You are assuming it happened after 8.30pm then? There are other possibilities. Once again you are quoting Amaral, but his theory was his theory and not THE theory that all must subscribe to. There was no requirement for blood, people can die without bleeding or making a mess.

Many people are able to mask their feelings and act relatively normally if it's important enough to do so. You don't know if this applies to the McCanns or not. They displayed iron control over their emotions during media interviews.

They did indeed make a lot of noise after the alarm. Screaming, kicking and roaring all over the place. They were able to speak coherently enough on the telephone to those back home, however. Mr McKenzie was able to understand Gerry from a distance of three metres.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GRAHAM-MCKENZIE.htm

[Eleanor]

I will tell you why I believe the McCann's are innocent,  it is because there is no way they could have discovered Madeleine dead,   cleared up,  decided what to do,  hide the body  all in the space of time given.

I have pointed out what I think many times.

There is also no where the McCann's could have hidden Madeleine's body where she couldn't be discovered,  they didn't know the area they were in.

There is no way Kate McCann was putting on an act when she found Madeleine as witnesses have pointed out how she behave after the event.

Amaral's theory is flawed,   he misinterpreted the DNA results,  nothing was found to say that Madeleine did die in 5a and the idea that the McCann's took Madeleine's body from the safe place where no one had discovered her and transported her in a car to somewhere else is I'm sorry just ridiculous.

You are wasting your time, Lace.  They don't want to know.

[ShiningInLuz]

Didn't he stand looking down on his daughter & thinking how lucky was - while all the time abductorman was holding his breath while standing in a non-existent space behind the door ?
If so, why should he check his bedroom?

I've looked at his 10 May statement.  He thought Madeleine might have gone to the parent's bedroom, but at no time did he check inside the parent's bedroom.

[Eleanor]

I presume you mean this to be droll rather than serious considering the last sentence of the post to which it is your response.

Have The McCanns been arrested?  Did I miss something?

[Alice Purjorick]

Cut from the PJ Final Report which apparently, according to another thread here, nailed the time line accurately.

"The establishing of a timeline and of the effective checking of the minors that were left alone inside the apartments, given the fact that, believing that said checking was as tight as the witnesses and the arguidos describe it, it would be, to say the least, very difficult that the conditions were reunited for the introduction of an abductor in the residence and the posterior exit of said individual, with the child, namely through a window with little space. It is added that the supposed abductor could only pass that window holding the minor in a different position (vertical) from the one that was visualized by witness JANE TANNER (horizontal)".

[G-Unit]

Hmm.  I wonder why Kate's book seems to be quite at odds with this?  Roughly speaking, around 11pm, a woman above asked what the noise was, and when told what had happened, gave a neutral response, offered no help, and "I recall that in our outrage, Fiona and I shouted back something rather short and to the point."

Were there two women appearing above?

Gerry's arguido statement. Quite vague;

He remembers that at one time the lady who lived in the apartment above theirs, went onto her veranda and asked what was going on. He does not remember specifically who replied to this lady, but he remembers that somebody spoke to her, assuming it was himself who did so.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-ARGUIDO.htm

[Lace]

Mrs Fenn told Gerry he could use her phone to call the police 10 minutes before they were. But was told it has already been done. Did he phone Matt to check that it had been done? No. Matt didn't see Gerry from when they split up to search until he came to reception at 10:40.

"Mrs Fenn asked the father, Gerry, what was happening to which he replied that a small girl had been abducted. When asked, she replied that she did not leave her apartment, just spoke to Gerry from her balcony, which had a view over the terrace of the floor below. She found it strange that Gerry when said that a girl had been abducted, he did not mention that it was his daughter and that he did not mention any other scenarios. At that moment she offered Gerry help, saying that he could use her phone to contact the authorities, to which he replied that this had already been done. It was just after 22.30."

It sounds as though Gerry thought the person had called the police.