Author Topic: Wandering Off Topic  (Read 2454889 times)

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Offline misty

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1515 on: August 19, 2016, 09:16:40 PM »
LOL but politicians tend to keep the wellies spotlessly clean until the actual photo-opportunities Misty. 

Back on topic, several of the highest people in gov had offered to do anything to help. Gov were involved in setting up both trips, meeting at airports, arranging for meetings with VIPs, etc. Gov (incl FCO) often charters or contracts or arranges private jets. So solving the question "who really arranged for the jets to be provided?" is easier than a piece of cake. And you may have noticed on every leg of both trips there was a full-time gov employee on the jets.

The burning question has always been "why". Who or what was being protected to such an extreme degree? Maybe we'll find out one day.

In real world solved cases where a perp wanted to ensure something/someone was not directly seen while being transported, there are 3 common transportation types:

bag etc
motor vehicle
none 


There is one important factor you are overlooking - the cover of darkness.

Here is a link to a case I hadn't come across before & is eerily similar to the MM disappearance.
http://crimewatchdaily.com/2016/05/09/will-recently-discovered-video-help-find-missing-florida-girl-isabel-celis/

Even with CCTV there is no indication of exactly how the child went missing from the premises. Another one to get your teeth into, although there is a possible perpetrator named who has strong links to the family.

Offline pegasus

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1516 on: August 19, 2016, 10:12:13 PM »
The burning question has always been "why". Who or what was being protected to such an extreme degree? Maybe we'll find out one day.

There is one important factor you are overlooking - the cover of darkness.

Here is a link to a case I hadn't come across before & is eerily similar to the MM disappearance.
http://crimewatchdaily.com/2016/05/09/will-recently-discovered-video-help-find-missing-florida-girl-isabel-celis/

Even with CCTV there is no indication of exactly how the child went missing from the premises. Another one to get your teeth into, although there is a possible perpetrator named who has strong links to the family.
Thanks for that interesting link Misty.

Offline pegasus

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1517 on: August 19, 2016, 10:16:09 PM »
In real world solved cases (even under cover of darkness) where a perp wanted to ensure something/someone was not directly seen while being transported, there are 3 common transportation types:

Bag etc
Motor vehicle
None 

Certainly not on the list: carrying the object or person unconcealed and visible (no bag, no vehicle) through populated streets.

Offline misty

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1518 on: August 19, 2016, 10:45:30 PM »
In real world solved cases (even under cover of darkness) where a perp wanted to ensure something/someone was not directly seen while being transported, there are 3 common transportation types:

Bag etc
Motor vehicle
None 

Certainly not on the list: carrying the object or person unconcealed and visible (no bag, no vehicle) through populated streets.

During daylight hours, many abductions occur involving the child being enticed or led away (sometimes by force) an undetermined distance to a vehicle or secluded location. If this can happen during daylight hours, why should an unconcealed carrying not occur under the cover of darkness, especially in an area where such a sight was not uncommon? Had any abductor only needed to carry a (sedated) child a short distance before proper concealment could be achieved, it is foolish to totally rule out unconcealed & visible carrying or walking.

Offline pegasus

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1519 on: August 19, 2016, 11:12:20 PM »
During daylight hours, many abductions occur involving the child being enticed or led away (sometimes by force) an undetermined distance to a vehicle or secluded location. If this can happen during daylight hours, why should an unconcealed carrying not occur under the cover of darkness, especially in an area where such a sight was not uncommon? Had any abductor only needed to carry a (sedated) child a short distance before proper concealment could be achieved, it is foolish to totally rule out unconcealed & visible carrying or walking.
Ok can you give me a solved proven example, abduction or occultation, of unconcealed plainly visible carrying without bag or vehicle for 400+ metres through populated streets?
« Last Edit: August 19, 2016, 11:19:50 PM by pegasus »

Offline misty

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1520 on: August 19, 2016, 11:26:26 PM »
Ok can you give me a solved proven example, abduction or occultation, of unconcealed plainly visible carrying without bag or vehicle for 400+ metres through populated streets?

Chloe Campbell walked through the streets with her abductors after being taken from her home. Does that count?

Offline pegasus

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1521 on: August 20, 2016, 12:03:28 AM »
Chloe Campbell walked through the streets with her abductors after being taken from her home. Does that count?
No. "Carried" is a key word

Offline misty

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1522 on: August 20, 2016, 12:20:36 AM »
No. "Carried" is a key word

OK. The two Newcastle girls who abducted a 2 year old from Primark must have employed a degree of carrying as they went on the bus & the Metro with the child, covering 3 miles in less than 2 hours.
There is another case involving an older teenage boy carrying a kidnapped child through the street in broad daylight (it was posted on here a while back), I'll try to find that.

Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1523 on: August 20, 2016, 12:24:24 AM »
Ok can you give me a solved proven example, abduction or occultation, of unconcealed plainly visible carrying without bag or vehicle for 400+ metres through populated streets?

Teens chase man who snatched toddler from park
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/03/10/teens-chase-man-abducted-toddler/24705949/

Interestingly enough the child is being carried as described in Jane Tanner's sighting.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline misty

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1524 on: August 20, 2016, 12:29:59 AM »
Teens chase man who snatched toddler from park
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/03/10/teens-chase-man-abducted-toddler/24705949/

Interestingly enough the child is being carried as described in Jane Tanner's sighting.

Thanks, Brietta - that was the one I was looking for as I recalled you posting it before. I thought it happened in Canada or NZ which explains why I couldn't find it.

Offline pegasus

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1525 on: August 20, 2016, 12:40:21 AM »
Teens chase man who snatched toddler from park
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/03/10/teens-chase-man-abducted-toddler/24705949/

Interestingly enough the child is being carried as described in Jane Tanner's sighting.
Close but no cigar Brietta, it was less than 400 metres.

 

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1526 on: August 20, 2016, 01:20:58 AM »
Teens chase man who snatched toddler from park
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/03/10/teens-chase-man-abducted-toddler/24705949/

Interestingly enough the child is being carried as described in Jane Tanner's sighting.
Hard to be sure.  Was the kid screaming and fighting to escape?
« Last Edit: August 20, 2016, 01:31:57 AM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1527 on: August 20, 2016, 01:32:35 AM »
Close but no cigar Brietta, it was less than 400 metres.


Perhaps ... but only because of being hotly pursued.
If memory serves me well abductor had also gone to the trouble of disguising himself with a false moustache.

Children get abducted by strangers in the most bizarre circumstances. For example ...

The incident of the kidnapper caught on CCTV being chased down the street and the incident of the little girl being snatched from inside a shop had in common the fact that they were recorded plus the witnesses knew a kidnap was in progress.

Despite the poignant footage of James Bulger being led away no-one knew he was being kidnapped.  I wonder if without that footage James's vile abduction and murder would ever have been solved.
Who would have suspected that two young boys would do such a thing?  The many witnesses who thought they were seeing two brothers being hard on a sibling would probably never had made the connection without the CCTV.

The little girl snatched from her home while her mother slept was discovered badly injured in her back yard.
Had her abductor removed her from the scene of his crime, she might never have been found to become yet another 'mystery' and her mother another obvious suspect.  Shows that children are abducted from the safety of their homes ... although there may well be those who might think that she woke and wandered right into the hands of an attacker who just happened to be outside.


"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline pegasus

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1528 on: August 20, 2016, 02:07:02 AM »

Perhaps ... but only because of being hotly pursued.
If memory serves me well abductor had also gone to the trouble of disguising himself with a false moustache.

Children get abducted by strangers in the most bizarre circumstances. For example ...

The incident of the kidnapper caught on CCTV being chased down the street and the incident of the little girl being snatched from inside a shop had in common the fact that they were recorded plus the witnesses knew a kidnap was in progress.

Despite the poignant footage of James Bulger being led away no-one knew he was being kidnapped.  I wonder if without that footage James's vile abduction and murder would ever have been solved.
Who would have suspected that two young boys would do such a thing?  The many witnesses who thought they were seeing two brothers being hard on a sibling would probably never had made the connection without the CCTV.

The little girl snatched from her home while her mother slept was discovered badly injured in her back yard.
Had her abductor removed her from the scene of his crime, she might never have been found to become yet another 'mystery' and her mother another obvious suspect.  Shows that children are abducted from the safety of their homes ... although there may well be those who might think that she woke and wandered right into the hands of an attacker who just happened to be outside.
Thanks very interesting cases but the question was:

Ok can you give me a solved proven example, abduction or occultation, of unconcealed plainly visible carrying without bag or vehicle for 400+ metres through populated streets?
« Last Edit: August 20, 2016, 02:11:03 AM by pegasus »

Offline pegasus

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1529 on: August 20, 2016, 02:26:24 AM »
It is ridiculous to base a whole multi-million pound investigation on a hypothesis which is so implausible that you have to search the whole world, tens of thousands of cases, in an attempt to find just one proven example.

« Last Edit: August 20, 2016, 02:31:53 AM by pegasus »