Author Topic: Wandering Off Topic  (Read 316434 times)

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Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #3105 on: June 02, 2018, 08:41:00 AM »
I have no idea how much access any FLO had to their lives. Paiva had dealings with them and said in January 2010;

Asked if he had ever got the impression from the McCanns that they thought Madeleine could be dead, he said: "Yes."
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id296.htm

The twins played with Paiva's children at his home.  Kate and Gerry dined there.  So I would say Paiva had a great deal of access to them at the time.


Snip
Later, another witness told the court that the investigation changed from a missing person’s inquiry into a murder hunt after Kate had a nightmare and told police where to look for the body.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Police liaison officer Ricardo Paiva said: “The turning point of the investigation came after I received a phone call from Kate McCann.

“She said she had had a nightmare and saw Madeleine’s body lying on a hillside.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
He added: “At the end of July Kate phoned me. She was alone as Gerry was in the UK and she was crying, saying she’d dreamt Madeleine was up in the hills and we should do searches there. She gave the impression that she thought Madeleine was dead.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
However, under cross examination he accepted claims that the couple contacted the media before the police were not true.
Judge Rodrigues asked him why he could not accept that Madeleine could have been kidnapped and then killed. Mr Paiva did not answer.

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-express/20100113/282454230115774
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #3106 on: June 02, 2018, 08:42:19 AM »
I don't think anyone ever accused the McCanns or anyone else close to the child of murdering Madeleine.

                                  Paiva did.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline G-Unit

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #3107 on: June 02, 2018, 08:49:57 AM »
                                  Paiva did.

As per forum protocol I assume a cite is forthcoming?
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #3108 on: June 02, 2018, 08:53:56 AM »
As per forum protocol I assume a cite is forthcoming?

Later, another witness told the court that the investigation changed from a missing person’s inquiry into a murder hunt after Kate had a nightmare and told police where to look for the body.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7060.msg464593#msg464593
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #3109 on: June 02, 2018, 08:59:40 AM »
Later, another witness told the court that the investigation changed from a missing person’s inquiry into a murder hunt after Kate had a nightmare and told police where to look for the body.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7060.msg464593#msg464593

So no mention of the McCanns or anyone close to them being involved.
We're only making plans for Nigel

Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #3110 on: June 02, 2018, 09:08:54 AM »
So no mention of the McCanns or anyone close to them being involved.

Probably not if you quickly skim over the part after "murder inquiry", know nothing about the case and don't follow links to read further. 

Most readers will get the gist particularly if they have been following the case.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #3111 on: June 02, 2018, 09:21:16 AM »
Probably not if you quickly skim over the part after "murder inquiry", know nothing about the case and don't follow links to read further. 

Most readers will get the gist particularly if they have been following the case.

Please provide the cite for the McCanns being suspected of murder as per forum rules. The gist of it doesn’t really count.
We're only making plans for Nigel

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #3112 on: June 02, 2018, 09:24:07 AM »
Please provide the cite for the McCanns being suspected of murder as per forum rules. The gist of it doesn’t really count.
Why would murder have been ruled out by those who suspected the McCanns? Those who suspect them already think they are monsters for “neglecting” their kids, who may have drugged them too, then they had a “dodgy” friend and they believe they casually disposed of the body of their eldest, then set about deceiving the world  so why rule out murder?
« Last Edit: June 02, 2018, 09:27:54 AM by Vertigo Swirl »
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Online Davel

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #3113 on: June 02, 2018, 09:25:41 AM »
Why would murder have been ruled out by those who suspected the McCanns?

the words...all options are being considered ...springs to mind
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #3114 on: June 02, 2018, 09:27:01 AM »
Why would murder have been ruled out by those who suspected the McCanns?

Doesn’t work like that, Brietta has claimed that the McCanns were suspected of murder. That requires a cite.
We're only making plans for Nigel

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #3115 on: June 02, 2018, 09:29:01 AM »
Doesn’t work like that, Brietta has claimed that the McCanns were suspected of murder. That requires a cite.
I’m not interested in that, I’m asking why would murder have been ruled out by the PJ.  Was it?  If so on what basis?
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #3116 on: June 02, 2018, 09:29:28 AM »
I wasn't aware of the sweeping reform to come at the time, but then I had no particular reason to be interested. The concept of reform appears to have been approved by the PT parliament in 2005.

How much the local PJ may have known about it and when isn't clear. If they seriously weren't aware of imminent changes in the law that directly affected their own work... then, who should have informed and prepared them for such changes.

Not the case in PT, but luckily the changes didn't encompass the death penalty...

3.1 O Código Penal de 2007 e a preocupação com os novos riscos
Em  2005,  o  XVII  Governo  Constitucional  Português  previu 
–  pela   Resolução   do   
Conselho de Ministros n° 138/2005 –

 um vasto programa de reformas na esfera da justiça penal propondo uma nova revisão dos Códigos Penal e Processual Penal, como também, “o enquadramento da definição e da execução da política criminal, a lei quadro da reforma do sistema  prisional  e  respectivos  diplomas  complementares  e  o  regime  das  bases  de  dados 
para fins de investigação criminal”.


You are aware of when PT got rid of the death penalty?
We're only making plans for Nigel

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #3117 on: June 02, 2018, 09:31:12 AM »
I’m not interested in that, I’m asking why would murder have been ruled out by the PJ.  Was it?  If so on what basis?

Nothing to do with the point in question and probably deflection.
We're only making plans for Nigel

Online Davel

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #3118 on: June 02, 2018, 09:32:29 AM »
http://banmarchive.org.uk/collections/soundings/02_135.pdf

one has to ask whether, were Colin Stagg to be
arrested under the Howard regime, his silence on the second occasion on interview
might not now be used as an extra limb of material to be held against a
defendant at the trial stage.

colin stagg exercised his right to silence and was later found to be innocent
« Last Edit: June 02, 2018, 09:39:47 AM by Davel »
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #3119 on: June 02, 2018, 09:34:40 AM »
Nothing to do with the point in question and probably deflection.
It is everything to do with the point and interesting that you are incapable of answering it.
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.