Author Topic: Wandering Off Topic  (Read 301418 times)

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Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5145 on: March 08, 2019, 11:58:18 PM »
The telegraph?  you believe?
pfft!
Yes I do because I have read the archiving dispatch ... but for those who doubt, taken directly from the translated dispatch ...
Snip
It seems evident to us and because the files contain enough elements for such, that the crime of exposure or abandonment according to article 138 of the Penal Code can be eliminated from that range:
 
“1 – Whoever places another person’s life in danger,
 
a) By exposing her in a location where she is subject to a situation from which she, on her own, cannot defend herself against; or
 
b) Abandoning her without defence, whenever the agent had the duty to guard her, to watch over her or to assist her;”
 
This legal type of crime is only fulfilled with intent, and this intent has to cover the creation of danger to the victim’s life, as well as the absence of a capacity to defend herself, on the victim’s behalf. In the case of the files and facing the elements that were collected it is evident that none of the arguidos Gerald or Kate acted with intent. The parents could not foresee that in the resort that they chose to spend a brief holiday, they could place the life of any of their children in danger, nor was that demanded from them: it was located in a peaceful area, where most of the residents are foreign citizens of the same nationality and without any known history of this type of criminality.

The parents didn’t even represent the realisation of the fact, they trusted that everything would go well, as it had gone on the previous evenings, thus not equating, nor was it demanded from them, the possibility of the occurrence of an abduction of any of the children that were in their respective apartments.
 
Reinforcing what was said is also the fact that despite leaving their daughter alone with her siblings in the apartment during more or less dilated moments, it is certain that in any case they checked on them. Without any pretension or compensatory effect, we must also recognise that the parents already expiate a heavy penalty – the disappearance of Madeleine – due to their lack of caution in the surveillance and protection of their children.
 
Concerning the other indicated crimes, they are no more than that and despite our perception that, due to its high degree of probability, the occurrence of a homicide cannot be discarded, such cannot be more than a mere supposition, due to the lack of sustaining elements in the files.
 
The non involvement of the arguidos parents of Madeleine in any penally relevant action seems to result from the objective circumstances of them not being inside the apartment when she disappeared, from the normal behaviour that they adopted until said disappearance and afterwards, as can be amply concluded from the witness statements, from the telephone communications analysis and also from the forensics’ conclusions, namely the Reports from the FSS and from the National Institute for Legal Medicine.
 
To this can be added that, in reality, none of the indications that led to their constitution as arguidos was later confirmed or consolidated. If not, let us see: the information concerning a previous alert of the media – before the police – was not confirmed, the traces that were marked by the dogs were not ratified in laboratory, and the initial indications from the above transcribed email, better clarified at a later date, ended up being revealed as innocuous.
 
Even if, hypothetically, one could admit that Gerald and Kate McCann might be responsible over the child’s death, it would still have to be explained how, where through, when, with what means, with the help of whom and where to they freed themselves of her body within the restricted time frame that would have been available to them to do so. Their daily routine, until the 3rd of May, had been circumscribed to the narrow borders of the ‘Ocean Club’ resort and to the beach that lies next to it, unknowing the surrounding terrain and, apart from the English friends that were with them on holiday there, they had no known friends or contacts in Portugal.

The parents didn’t even represent the realisation of the fact, they trusted that everything would go well, as it had gone on the previous evenings, thus not equating, nor was it demanded from them, the possibility of the occurrence of an abduction of any of the children that were in their respective apartments.
 
Reinforcing what was said is also the fact that despite leaving their daughter alone with her siblings in the apartment during more or less dilated moments, it is certain that in any case they checked on them. Without any pretension or compensatory effect, we must also recognise that the parents already expiate a heavy penalty – the disappearance of Madeleine – due to their lack of caution in the surveillance and protection of their children.
 
Concerning the other indicated crimes, they are no more than that and despite our perception that, due to its high degree of probability, the occurrence of a homicide cannot be discarded, such cannot be more than a mere supposition, due to the lack of sustaining elements in the files.
 
The non involvement of the arguidos parents of Madeleine in any penally relevant action seems to result from the objective circumstances of them not being inside the apartment when she disappeared, from the normal behaviour that they adopted until said disappearance and afterwards, as can be amply concluded from the witness statements, from the telephone communications analysis and also from the forensics’ conclusions, namely the Reports from the FSS and from the National Institute for Legal Medicine.
 
To this can be added that, in reality, none of the indications that led to their constitution as arguidos was later confirmed or consolidated. If not, let us see: the information concerning a previous alert of the media – before the police – was not confirmed, the traces that were marked by the dogs were not ratified in laboratory, and the initial indications from the above transcribed email, better clarified at a later date, ended up being revealed as innocuous.
 
Even if, hypothetically, one could admit that Gerald and Kate McCann might be responsible over the child’s death, it would still have to be explained how, where through, when, with what means, with the help of whom and where to they freed themselves of her body within the restricted time frame that would have been available to them to do so. Their daily routine, until the 3rd of May, had been circumscribed to the narrow borders of the ‘Ocean Club’ resort and to the beach that lies next to it, unknowing the surrounding terrain and, apart from the English friends that were with them on holiday there, they had no known friends or contacts in Portugal.
http://madeleinemccann.org/blog/2014/04/20/the-pjs-final-report-the-archiving-dispatch/

There is more ... I recommend you read it all ... as it may serve to allow you a better understanding of more aspects of the case based on the limited information we have to hand.
There must be so much more available now ... this dispatch was signed off in 2008 ... there's all the information from the intervening years available to the police but not to us.  Which is as it should be.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline barrier

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5146 on: March 09, 2019, 09:06:53 AM »
The most salient piece from the archive being.

Quote
Despite all of this, it was not possible to obtain any piece of evidence that would allow for a medium man, under the light of the criteria of logics, of normality and of the general rules of experience, to formulate any lucid, sensate, serious and honest conclusion about the circumstances under which the child was removed from the apartment (whether dead or alive, whether killed in a neglectful homicide or an intended homicide, whether the victim of a targeted abduction or an opportunistic abduction), nor even to produce a consistent prognosis about her destiny and inclusively – the most dramatic – to establish whether she is still alive or if she is dead, as seems more likely.

Still remains the case today,thats why its where its at.
We've got tonight who needs tomorrow.

Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5147 on: March 09, 2019, 10:04:28 AM »
The most salient piece from the archive being.

Still remains the case today,thats why its where its at.

Do you really think that time has stood still in investigative terms since the archiving dispatch was published back in 2008 with nothing more being gleaned in the intervening years?

That may be "that's why its where its at" in 2008.  That was then ... this is now ... and things have moved on.

Before you say anything NB the archive of 2008 was published at the close of play as far as the Portuguese were concerned.
We haven't reached that stage yet in 2019 ... so there is more to come,
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline barrier

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5148 on: March 09, 2019, 10:38:19 AM »
Oh its moved on alright a few paces in fact according to the rags last November, walking out herself rather than a bogey man taking her out of a window.

Quote
BRITISH police are re-examining the theory that Madeleine McCann walked out of her family’s Portugal holiday apartment to look for her parents.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1050074/madeleine-mccann-Praia-da-Luz-algarve-portugal-police-scotland-yard-kate-gerry-mccann
We've got tonight who needs tomorrow.

Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5149 on: March 09, 2019, 11:04:22 AM »
Oh its moved on alright a few paces in fact according to the rags last November, walking out herself rather than a bogey man taking her out of a window.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1050074/madeleine-mccann-Praia-da-Luz-algarve-portugal-police-scotland-yard-kate-gerry-mccann
You go with uncorroborated press speculation if it keeps you happy ... I'm content to bide my time and wait for the official version of what is actually happening to be released.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline barrier

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5150 on: March 09, 2019, 11:06:24 AM »
You go with uncorroborated press speculation if it keeps you happy ... I'm content to bide my time and wait for the official version of what is actually happening to be released.


Hopefully you'll bear that in mind when you next cite a news article.
We've got tonight who needs tomorrow.

Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5151 on: March 09, 2019, 11:14:12 AM »

Hopefully you'll bear that in mind when you next cite a news article.

I consider the cites I choose to post very carefully indeed.  Surprised you hadn't clocked that.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline Faithlilly

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5152 on: March 09, 2019, 12:02:27 PM »
I consider the cites I choose to post very carefully indeed.  Surprised you hadn't clocked that.

But we had...like this one from your good self on the 3rd of February.


“I really don't know why they bother.  Just yet another illustration of an own goal over a fuss about nothing ... if I didn't know better I would think it was nothing but an attempt to throw a spanner into the works.


Snip
"Two of the allegations made against the cops were withdrawn and the final one was dropped by Scotland Yard when they decided there was no case to answer ...
____________________________________________________

One said: “Because the precise details of the allegations aren’t made public, it’s entirely possible good officers have been subjected to a complaints process even though there may be little merit in the allegations against them.”
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/757467/Madeleine-McCann-police-investigated-misconduct-Kate-Gerry-McCann-Portugal-missing-person?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+daily-star-latest-news+%28Daily+Star+%3A%3A+News+Feed%29

The Daily Star ? Really ?
« Last Edit: March 09, 2019, 12:06:18 PM by Faithlilly »
“Without delving into the details of the case, Ellis admitted that the British police had developed the current evidence against the McCann parents, and he stressed that authorities from both countries were working co-operatively."

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5153 on: March 10, 2019, 01:41:30 PM »
I consider the cites I choose to post very carefully indeed.  Surprised you hadn't clocked that.

If you stop quoting the press you can call us names ....untill then...

The daily Star???? ^*&& (&^&
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5154 on: March 10, 2019, 03:17:05 PM »
If you stop quoting the press you can call us names ....untill then...

The daily Star???? ^*&& (&^&

Sorry ... I find that unintelligible.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline barrier

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5155 on: March 18, 2019, 09:22:39 AM »
Not relevant to the McCann case but I think it brings a bit of reality to just what SY can be expected to do.


Claudia Lawrence disappeared ten years ago, not a child who some imagine to be easily smuggled but a fully grown woman,not a trace has been found since,nine persons have been arrested in connection but no charges have been laid through lack of evidence,the police believe the answer lies locally.


Now compare this to a crime committed far away,just what do people in all honesty  expect from SY when a local force cannot solve a case with out it seems that local vital clue.

I suspect the same answer to the Mccann case can be explained to be the same as the Lawrence headline.


Quote
Ten years on, Claudia Lawrence search frustrated by withheld information
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/crime/ten-years-on-claudia-lawrence-search-frustrated-by-withheld-information/ar-BBUTwYB?ocid=spartandhp
We've got tonight who needs tomorrow.

Offline Faithlilly

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5156 on: March 18, 2019, 05:36:06 PM »
Just to let everyone know that John Blacksmith has sadly passed away. I will be raising a glass to him tonight.
“Without delving into the details of the case, Ellis admitted that the British police had developed the current evidence against the McCann parents, and he stressed that authorities from both countries were working co-operatively."

Offline Davel

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5157 on: March 18, 2019, 05:40:28 PM »
Just to let everyone know that John Blacksmith has sadly passed away. I will be raising a glass to him tonight.

I agree ...whatever our diferences...sad news
UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED ALL POSTS ARE MY OPINION

Offline barrier

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5158 on: March 18, 2019, 05:42:42 PM »
Just to let everyone know that John Blacksmith has sadly passed away. I will be raising a glass to him tonight.


Not heard that,where have you seen that faith?
We've got tonight who needs tomorrow.

Offline Faithlilly

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5159 on: March 18, 2019, 05:54:22 PM »

Not heard that,where have you seen that faith?

It has been announced on the maddiecasefiles by Astro Barrier.
“Without delving into the details of the case, Ellis admitted that the British police had developed the current evidence against the McCann parents, and he stressed that authorities from both countries were working co-operatively."