Wandering Off Topic

[Alfie]

I was asking amother poster for cites, but thanks for your efforts.

How very patronizing.   The cite is Amaral's book.  Read it, and you will find numerous instances of him getting things hopelessly wrong, things which have been discussed on this forum numerous times already.  All this demanding cites business is just another way of deflecting, all very childish IMO.

[ShiningInLuz]

In the main bedroom there was no blood found so what was that?
Eddie would alert to blood where the blood had putrefied.  If there was no putrefied blood what else did he alert to?

Does it matter?

AFAIK, the only specimen the FSS tested for blood was a sample of plant from the garden and they did not find any.

Plus Grime chose to explain Eddie's response by saying it might have an origin elsewhere.

There is nothing that would stand up in a court of law that there was a dead body in 5A.

[Benice]

I was asking amother poster for cites, but thanks for your efforts.

My pleasure.

Here's another example of Amaral not being able to get simple facts right.

Chapter 4.TTOTL

Blood markers on the wall behind the sofa.

Other than her sleep problems, it is possible that Madeleine suffered from an illness, a hypothesis that was never confirmed. Immediately after the discovery of traces of blood in the apartment, the mother, in the course of an interview with a Portuguese magazine, revealed that Madeleine had had a nose bleed. But the bleeding could be associated with certain pathologies.
End quote

Simple fact  - no blood was found to be on the wall behind the settee - and yet Amaral claims it to be a fact.

[Robittybob1]

Amaral is not needed to disbelieve the McCann's story of abduction, or consideration of the dogs indications.

It is already known they lack corroboration. It doesn't mean though, that the dogs didn't alert to the possible presence of a body.

Eddie the cadaver dog alerted to the possible presence of a body.  You and I agree on this.

[Robittybob1]

As I said you don't understand
No one knows what they alerted too

Probability dictates they alerted to what they were trained to find.

[Mr Gray]

Probability dictates they alerted to what they were trained to find.

No it doesn't
There are no scientific studies to support what unconfirmed alerts relate to
Grime was asked twice if the alerts confirmed the presence of cadaver odour and he failed to answer the question on both occasions

[Robittybob1]

Does it matter?

AFAIK, the only specimen the FSS tested for blood was a sample of plant from the garden and they did not find any.

Plus Grime chose to explain Eddie's response by saying it might have an origin elsewhere.

There is nothing that would stand up in a court of law that there was a dead body in 5A.

I agree that there is no evidence "that would stand up in a court of law that there was a dead body in 5A" but the intelligence it gives the investigators (from the bedroom alert) was that there was the possibility there had been a dead body that had been dead for more than a couple of hours.
So if you are looking at any surface and there clearly isn't a body on it at the time of the 10:00 Kate's alert "there was the possibility there had been a dead body [on that surface] that had been dead for more than a couple of hours".
In other words it implies that whoever died (if it was a deceased person) had to have died earlier in the night, or died later and was missed during the search. 
To explain how a  deceased person could have been in the apartment but not found during the search is the reason why the sports bag features in all the inquiries, for maybe the insides of sport bags were not checked by the PJ immediately after they arrived.

[Robittybob1]

No it doesn't
There are no scientific studies to support what unconfirmed alerts relate to
Grime was asked twice if the alerts confirmed the presence of cadaver odour and he failed to answer the question on both occasions

Well the word "confirmed" makes the question tricky for it doesn't confirm anything, but probability is that if there is an alert it is an alert to whatever he was trained to find. 
For even you must agree that in the experiments where they moved cadavers after so many hours and then put the cadaver dogs to the test that the dogs were found to alert to the places where the cadavers had lain.  OK those spots where the alerts happened were unconfirmed from the forensic point of view but the experimenters knew a body had been there.

Therefore whenever a cadaver dog alerts to a spot one would have to consider it possible that a deceased body (more than 2 hours old) had lain here in the past.

[ShiningInLuz]

I agree that there is no evidence "that would stand up in a court of law that there was a dead body in 5A" but the intelligence it gives the investigators (from the bedroom alert) was that there was the possibility there had been a dead body that had been dead for more than a couple of hours.
So if you are looking at any surface and there clearly isn't a body on it at the time of the 10:00 Kate's alert "there was the possibility there had been a dead body [on that surface] that had been dead for more than a couple of hours".
In other words it implies that whoever died (if it was a deceased person) had to have died earlier in the night, or died later and was missed during the search. 
To explain how a  deceased person could have been in the apartment but not found during the search is the reason why the sports bag features in all the inquiries, for maybe the insides of sport bags were not checked by the PJ immediately after they arrived.

Is there something about the word 'bled' you don't understand.

Eddie alerted to the Scenic key-fob.  Keela alerted to the Scenic key-fob.  The FSS identified the DNA in the sample as Gerry's.  Not Gerry and someone else, just Gerry.  Gerry is not dead.

[Robittybob1]

Is there something about the word 'bled' you don't understand.

Eddie alerted to the Scenic key-fob.  Keela alerted to the Scenic key-fob.  The FSS identified the DNA in the sample as Gerry's.  Not Gerry and someone else, just Gerry.  Gerry is not dead.

We've been over this previously and the key fob could have Gerry's blood on it and cadaver odour from another source.  The odour doesn't come from the dried blood unless it putrefied on the fob.

[ShiningInLuz]

We've been over this previously and the key fob could have Gerry's blood on it and cadaver odour from another source.  The odour doesn't come from the dried blood unless it putrefied on the fob.

The FSS detected only Gerry.  It did not detect DNA from a magical second source.  Did it?

[Robittybob1]

The FSS detected only Gerry.  It did not detect DNA from a magical second source.  Did it?

Cadaver odour (whatever it is) permeates plastic bags so it can be there without DNA being present.  DNA can't penetrate a plastic bag.

[ShiningInLuz]

The cadaver odour permeates plastic bags so it can be there without DNA being present.

Cite

[Robittybob1]

Cite

http://www.csst.org/cadaver_scent.html
"ICF RESERCH PAPER #97-1-1: POST- MORTEM INTERVAL FOR WHICH TRAINED K9s DIFFERENTIATE LIVE HUMAN SCENT vs DECOMP SCENT

*All post-mortem scent samples consist of sterile gauze pads, (sealed until just prior to use) placed on abdominal area of decedent for exactly 20 minutes. Gauze pads are then placed in unused plastic bags and double sealed with packing tape. All post-mortem scent samples are handled with latex gloves, and at no time do these samples come in skin contact with live human scent.
*All Live Human scent samples are placed on the abdominal area of a living person for exactly 20 minutes, then placed in unused plastic bags and double sealed in the same manner as the post-mortem samples.

The experiment test how long it took the odour to be detected after coming through the double sealed plastic bag.

[ShiningInLuz]

http://www.csst.org/cadaver_scent.html
"ICF RESERCH PAPER #97-1-1: POST- MORTEM INTERVAL FOR WHICH TRAINED K9s DIFFERENTIATE LIVE HUMAN SCENT vs DECOMP SCENT

*All post-mortem scent samples consist of sterile gauze pads, (sealed until just prior to use) placed on abdominal area of decedent for exactly 20 minutes. Gauze pads are then placed in unused plastic bags and double sealed with packing tape. All post-mortem scent samples are handled with latex gloves, and at no time do these samples come in skin contact with live human scent.
*All Live Human scent samples are placed on the abdominal area of a living person for exactly 20 minutes, then placed in unused plastic bags and double sealed in the same manner as the post-mortem samples.

The experiment test how long it took the odour to be detected after coming through the double sealed plastic bag.

The experiment was conducted with gauze pads.