Author Topic: Wandering Off Topic  (Read 2697661 times)

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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #2145 on: July 03, 2017, 04:24:35 PM »
It would be very simple to tell if this was the jaw of a child or an adult..

Offline misty

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #2146 on: July 13, 2017, 11:52:36 PM »
http://www.rd.com/true-stories/inspiring/stopping-a-kidnapper/      (Dec 2016)

It was a scene Norman Rockwell might have painted: three kids laughing as they took turns riding a scooter on their quiet street. Last ­December, on a crisp Saturday afternoon in Wichita Falls, Texas, 11-year-old TJ Smith had just jumped off the scooter as his neighbor Kim,* age 7, claimed her turn, and her sister Julie,* 9, looked on. Kim straddled the scooter and paused to catch her breath. That was when a bearded man with a head of messy curls appeared. The kids didn’t see where he came from, but they know exactly what happened next: Without uttering a word, he picked Kim up off the scooter and calmly strode away.

“He cradled her like a baby and just walked down the street,” says TJ. In fact, the composed way the man held Kim led TJ to believe he must have been a relative. But something wasn’t right. “I could see her face,” TJ said. “She was scared.” Read this other inspiring story about a foiled kidnapping.

Kim’s fear escalated into sobs, then pleas for help. She began kicking and flailing, trying to get free of the man’s grip. “What are you doing?” Julie shouted. But the man, unfazed, walked the length of the block until he reached an alley and disappeared.

Though he admits he was scared, TJ says he never thought about the danger to himself.

TJ’s first impulse was to chase after them. But what was a 4-foot-tall, 70-pound kid going to do to stop a grown man? “I wanted to help, but I couldn’t do it myself,” he says. So he ran to his grown-up neighbors’ home.

Brad Ware and his wife were relaxing on the couch in their living room when their front door burst open.

“Brad!” yelled TJ. “A man just picked up a little girl and took her into the alley!”

And just like that, TJ was gone, back on the street sprinting after his abducted little friend. “I ran back to where I saw him take her to see if they were still there,” says TJ. Ware and his wife jumped into their car and trailed close behind.

TJ ran to the end of the street and turned the corner. He had no idea what to expect or who might be waiting for him. But he needed to find Kim. If he lost her, TJ feared, she might never be found alive.

Once TJ hit the alley, he spotted the man a couple of blocks down, standing in front of an abandoned white house—its windows busted, doors boarded up, and yard overgrown. He was shoving the panicked girl through a window. These other unsung heroes will restore your faith in humanity.

Just then, Ware and his wife pulled up. “Stay here,” Ware told TJ as he took off toward the house. With Ware now bearing down on him, the man let go of Kim in the window frame and walked away, almost non­chalantly, before breaking into a run. Ware caught up with him. They struggled. Ware kicked the man in the groin and wrapped him in his arms. The man squirmed free and fled across the street. When he stumbled, Ware lunged and tackled him.

Alerted by Julie and other neighbors, the police and the victim’s mother had arrived on the scene. Kim dashed into the safety of her mother’s arms, and the two cried and hugged.

Meanwhile, officers cuffed and arrested Raeshawn Perez, 26. He was charged with aggravated kidnapping and was being held on $50,000 bond as this article went to press.

There were a few heroes that day, but Ware insists that the quick-­thinking, dogged 11-year-old deserves most of the credit. “You know, he’s the one who more or less saved the girl,” Ware told KFDX.

That news came as no surprise to TJ’s mother. “This is exactly his character,” says Angie Hess  Smith. “His first thought is not of himself. It’s always of others.”

*Names have been changed to protect privacy 

====================================================================

This story was posted on the Official Find Madeleine F/B page. There are other reports of it via Google.
It is an example of the open carrying of an abducted child in broad daylight & the consequences could have been horrifying.

Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #2147 on: July 14, 2017, 12:51:25 AM »
http://www.rd.com/true-stories/inspiring/stopping-a-kidnapper/      (Dec 2016)

It was a scene Norman Rockwell might have painted: three kids laughing as they took turns riding a scooter on their quiet street. Last ­December, on a crisp Saturday afternoon in Wichita Falls, Texas, 11-year-old TJ Smith had just jumped off the scooter as his neighbor Kim,* age 7, claimed her turn, and her sister Julie,* 9, looked on. Kim straddled the scooter and paused to catch her breath. That was when a bearded man with a head of messy curls appeared. The kids didn’t see where he came from, but they know exactly what happened next: Without uttering a word, he picked Kim up off the scooter and calmly strode away.

“He cradled her like a baby and just walked down the street,” says TJ. In fact, the composed way the man held Kim led TJ to believe he must have been a relative. But something wasn’t right. “I could see her face,” TJ said. “She was scared.” Read this other inspiring story about a foiled kidnapping.

Kim’s fear escalated into sobs, then pleas for help. She began kicking and flailing, trying to get free of the man’s grip. “What are you doing?” Julie shouted. But the man, unfazed, walked the length of the block until he reached an alley and disappeared.

Though he admits he was scared, TJ says he never thought about the danger to himself.

TJ’s first impulse was to chase after them. But what was a 4-foot-tall, 70-pound kid going to do to stop a grown man? “I wanted to help, but I couldn’t do it myself,” he says. So he ran to his grown-up neighbors’ home.

Brad Ware and his wife were relaxing on the couch in their living room when their front door burst open.

“Brad!” yelled TJ. “A man just picked up a little girl and took her into the alley!”

And just like that, TJ was gone, back on the street sprinting after his abducted little friend. “I ran back to where I saw him take her to see if they were still there,” says TJ. Ware and his wife jumped into their car and trailed close behind.

TJ ran to the end of the street and turned the corner. He had no idea what to expect or who might be waiting for him. But he needed to find Kim. If he lost her, TJ feared, she might never be found alive.

Once TJ hit the alley, he spotted the man a couple of blocks down, standing in front of an abandoned white house—its windows busted, doors boarded up, and yard overgrown. He was shoving the panicked girl through a window. These other unsung heroes will restore your faith in humanity.

Just then, Ware and his wife pulled up. “Stay here,” Ware told TJ as he took off toward the house. With Ware now bearing down on him, the man let go of Kim in the window frame and walked away, almost non­chalantly, before breaking into a run. Ware caught up with him. They struggled. Ware kicked the man in the groin and wrapped him in his arms. The man squirmed free and fled across the street. When he stumbled, Ware lunged and tackled him.

Alerted by Julie and other neighbors, the police and the victim’s mother had arrived on the scene. Kim dashed into the safety of her mother’s arms, and the two cried and hugged.

Meanwhile, officers cuffed and arrested Raeshawn Perez, 26. He was charged with aggravated kidnapping and was being held on $50,000 bond as this article went to press.

There were a few heroes that day, but Ware insists that the quick-­thinking, dogged 11-year-old deserves most of the credit. “You know, he’s the one who more or less saved the girl,” Ware told KFDX.

That news came as no surprise to TJ’s mother. “This is exactly his character,” says Angie Hess  Smith. “His first thought is not of himself. It’s always of others.”

*Names have been changed to protect privacy 

====================================================================

This story was posted on the Official Find Madeleine F/B page. There are other reports of it via Google.
It is an example of the open carrying of an abducted child in broad daylight & the consequences could have been horrifying.

No-one saw him ~ there is no report of any passerby noticing anything amiss.

He was able to walk from where he took the child to where he was apprehended and no-one saw him.  The little girl although seven years old was terrified yet she didn't kick, scream or struggle.

If that little girl's playmate hadn't been there to see what happened and to raise the alarm it is highly likely that little girl would never have been seen again.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline sadie

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #2148 on: July 14, 2017, 12:53:39 AM »
Following on from mistys post


An example of a girl abducted from her own bed with her parents also asleep in the house ... and whilst sleeping alongside her sister, sharing a bed it seems


http://www.thejournal.ie/mising-kidnapped-found-900814-May2013/

Elizabeth Smart

http://img2.thejournal.ie/inline/900889/original/?width=363&version=900889




Elizabeth Smart earlier this month. Pic: AP Photo/Rick Bowmer

This is Elizabeth Smart, a young Utah woman who was kidnapped from her bedroom in Salt Lake City in 2002 when she was 14.

http://img2.thejournal.ie/inline/900893/original/?width=630&version=900893

Pic: AP Photo/Douglas C Pizac

She was taken from the home she lived in with her parents, Ed and Lois Smart (pictured above), and five siblings in a well-to-do neighbourhood.

That night, the alarm hadn’t been set in their home, and hours after the family went to bed Brian David Mitchell broke in.

http://img2.thejournal.ie/inline/900891/original/?width=314&version=900891



Brian David Mitchell arrives at the federal court house in Salt Lake City. Pic: AP Photo/Colin E Braley

The black-clad and polite Mitchell abducted Smart from the room she shared with her sister Mary Katherine (9), who pretended to be asleep and remembered details of the abduction that helped the police in their investigation.

Mitchell took Smart back to the camp he shared with Wanda Barzee in a woods, where the young teen was forced to “marry” the older man in a ceremony. During her captivity, Smart was raped, forced to drink alcohol and abused.

http://img2.thejournal.ie/inline/902347/original/?width=616&version=902347




Elizabeth Smart arrives at the federal court house for the closing arguments in the trial of Brian David Mitchell. Pic: AP Photo/Colin E Braley

Thousands of volunteers scoured the area near the Smart home in an effort to find the young girl.

After some time, Mary Katherine identified Mitchell as ‘Emmanuel’, a homeless man who been given odd jobs at the Smart home. The police did not follow up this lead thoroughly, the parents argued, but after a drawing of ‘Emmanuel’ appeared on America’s Most Wanted, Mitchell’s family recognised his face and contacted the authorities.

Nine months after the abduction, Mitchell was spotted in Sandy, Utah, by a biker who had seen America’s Most Wanted. He alerted police, and Smart (who was wearing a disguise), was found while walking with Mitchell, and reunited with her family.

Mitchell was sentenced to life in prison in 2011. Barzee is serving a 15-year sentence in Texas. Smart, now an activist and contributor to ABC News, got married last year on the Hawaiian island of O’ahu.

http://youtu.be/BYZ2ihhQjAY




OK so an abduction CAN HAPPEN whilst the parents are at home.  How does that affect some of you that go on  that Madeleine could not have been abducted if they had stayed in?   They were only 50 metres away in what was effectively block 5 Ocean Club garden ... and checking regularly.


So Madeleine could have been abducted even with her parents at home

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #2149 on: July 14, 2017, 07:22:25 AM »
Following on from mistys post


An example of a girl abducted from her own bed with her parents also asleep in the house ... and whilst sleeping alongside her sister, sharing a bed it seems


http://www.thejournal.ie/mising-kidnapped-found-900814-May2013/

Elizabeth Smart

http://img2.thejournal.ie/inline/900889/original/?width=363&version=900889




Elizabeth Smart earlier this month. Pic: AP Photo/Rick Bowmer

This is Elizabeth Smart, a young Utah woman who was kidnapped from her bedroom in Salt Lake City in 2002 when she was 14.

http://img2.thejournal.ie/inline/900893/original/?width=630&version=900893

Pic: AP Photo/Douglas C Pizac

She was taken from the home she lived in with her parents, Ed and Lois Smart (pictured above), and five siblings in a well-to-do neighbourhood.

That night, the alarm hadn’t been set in their home, and hours after the family went to bed Brian David Mitchell broke in.

http://img2.thejournal.ie/inline/900891/original/?width=314&version=900891



Brian David Mitchell arrives at the federal court house in Salt Lake City. Pic: AP Photo/Colin E Braley

The black-clad and polite Mitchell abducted Smart from the room she shared with her sister Mary Katherine (9), who pretended to be asleep and remembered details of the abduction that helped the police in their investigation.

Mitchell took Smart back to the camp he shared with Wanda Barzee in a woods, where the young teen was forced to “marry” the older man in a ceremony. During her captivity, Smart was raped, forced to drink alcohol and abused.

http://img2.thejournal.ie/inline/902347/original/?width=616&version=902347




Elizabeth Smart arrives at the federal court house for the closing arguments in the trial of Brian David Mitchell. Pic: AP Photo/Colin E Braley

Thousands of volunteers scoured the area near the Smart home in an effort to find the young girl.

After some time, Mary Katherine identified Mitchell as ‘Emmanuel’, a homeless man who been given odd jobs at the Smart home. The police did not follow up this lead thoroughly, the parents argued, but after a drawing of ‘Emmanuel’ appeared on America’s Most Wanted, Mitchell’s family recognised his face and contacted the authorities.

Nine months after the abduction, Mitchell was spotted in Sandy, Utah, by a biker who had seen America’s Most Wanted. He alerted police, and Smart (who was wearing a disguise), was found while walking with Mitchell, and reunited with her family.

Mitchell was sentenced to life in prison in 2011. Barzee is serving a 15-year sentence in Texas. Smart, now an activist and contributor to ABC News, got married last year on the Hawaiian island of O’ahu.

http://youtu.be/BYZ2ihhQjAY




OK so an abduction CAN HAPPEN whilst the parents are at home.  How does that affect some of you that go on  that Madeleine could not have been abducted if they had stayed in?   They were only 50 metres away in what was effectively block 5 Ocean Club garden ... and checking regularly.


So Madeleine could have been abducted even with her parents at home



Or she could have walked out through an unlocked sliding door, or........


The situation remains, that the presence of an unknown person in the apartment, hasn't been determined,

Offline G-Unit

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #2150 on: July 14, 2017, 07:36:28 AM »
Following on from mistys post


An example of a girl abducted from her own bed with her parents also asleep in the house ... and whilst sleeping alongside her sister, sharing a bed it seems


http://www.thejournal.ie/mising-kidnapped-found-900814-May2013/

Elizabeth Smart

http://img2.thejournal.ie/inline/900889/original/?width=363&version=900889




Elizabeth Smart earlier this month. Pic: AP Photo/Rick Bowmer

This is Elizabeth Smart, a young Utah woman who was kidnapped from her bedroom in Salt Lake City in 2002 when she was 14.

http://img2.thejournal.ie/inline/900893/original/?width=630&version=900893

Pic: AP Photo/Douglas C Pizac

She was taken from the home she lived in with her parents, Ed and Lois Smart (pictured above), and five siblings in a well-to-do neighbourhood.

That night, the alarm hadn’t been set in their home, and hours after the family went to bed Brian David Mitchell broke in.

http://img2.thejournal.ie/inline/900891/original/?width=314&version=900891



Brian David Mitchell arrives at the federal court house in Salt Lake City. Pic: AP Photo/Colin E Braley

The black-clad and polite Mitchell abducted Smart from the room she shared with her sister Mary Katherine (9), who pretended to be asleep and remembered details of the abduction that helped the police in their investigation.

Mitchell took Smart back to the camp he shared with Wanda Barzee in a woods, where the young teen was forced to “marry” the older man in a ceremony. During her captivity, Smart was raped, forced to drink alcohol and abused.

http://img2.thejournal.ie/inline/902347/original/?width=616&version=902347




Elizabeth Smart arrives at the federal court house for the closing arguments in the trial of Brian David Mitchell. Pic: AP Photo/Colin E Braley

Thousands of volunteers scoured the area near the Smart home in an effort to find the young girl.

After some time, Mary Katherine identified Mitchell as ‘Emmanuel’, a homeless man who been given odd jobs at the Smart home. The police did not follow up this lead thoroughly, the parents argued, but after a drawing of ‘Emmanuel’ appeared on America’s Most Wanted, Mitchell’s family recognised his face and contacted the authorities.

Nine months after the abduction, Mitchell was spotted in Sandy, Utah, by a biker who had seen America’s Most Wanted. He alerted police, and Smart (who was wearing a disguise), was found while walking with Mitchell, and reunited with her family.

Mitchell was sentenced to life in prison in 2011. Barzee is serving a 15-year sentence in Texas. Smart, now an activist and contributor to ABC News, got married last year on the Hawaiian island of O’ahu.

http://youtu.be/BYZ2ihhQjAY




OK so an abduction CAN HAPPEN whilst the parents are at home.  How does that affect some of you that go on  that Madeleine could not have been abducted if they had stayed in?   They were only 50 metres away in what was effectively block 5 Ocean Club garden ... and checking regularly.


So Madeleine could have been abducted even with her parents at home


It's normal for parents go to bed every night with no reason to expect anything like that to happen. It's not normal for parents to go out to dinner and leave small children home alone in an unlocked apartment. That's because there's reason to expect waking, crying, falling, wandering; all the usual things small children can get up to when unsupervised. 
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Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #2151 on: July 14, 2017, 08:27:17 AM »
It's normal for parents go to bed every night with no reason to expect anything like that to happen. It's not normal for parents to go out to dinner and leave small children home alone in an unlocked apartment. That's because there's reason to expect waking, crying, falling, wandering; all the usual things small children can get up to when unsupervised.

Despite being in the company of older children the little seven year old girl was abducted.  Lifted off the street and taken away by a stranger.

What evidence was there for that?
  • Eye witness evidence.
  • Her recovery from his clutches.
She was not under parental supervision or the supervision of an adult when she was taken off the street.  Does that in any way negate the fact of abduction or the culpability of the perpetrator? 
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline G-Unit

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #2152 on: July 14, 2017, 08:59:39 AM »
Despite being in the company of older children the little seven year old girl was abducted.  Lifted off the street and taken away by a stranger.

What evidence was there for that?
  • Eye witness evidence.
  • Her recovery from his clutches.
She was not under parental supervision or the supervision of an adult when she was taken off the street.  Does that in any way negate the fact of abduction or the culpability of the perpetrator?

Sometimes things happen which can't be foreseen. All a parent can do is guard their children against the everyday accidents which can be foreseen. Some parents don't even do that.
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Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #2153 on: July 14, 2017, 09:47:21 AM »
Sometimes things happen which can't be foreseen. All a parent can do is guard their children against the everyday accidents which can be foreseen. Some parents don't even do that.

It is rare for a child to be abducted from the street.

It is rare for a child to be abducted from her bed.

The rarity does not preclude that it does not happen.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #2154 on: July 14, 2017, 09:59:07 AM »
It is rare for a child to be abducted from the street.

It is rare for a child to be abducted from her bed.

The rarity does not preclude that it does not happen.

Nor does it mean it happened in this case Brietta.


It is one of three possibilities, ignoring any outlandish theory.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #2155 on: July 14, 2017, 10:47:26 AM »
It is rare for a child to be abducted from the street.

It is rare for a child to be abducted from her bed.

The rarity does not preclude that it does not happen.

If Madeleine McCann was abducted that was not foreseeable, but there's no evidence that she was. What was foreseeable was a range of other problems associated with leaving small children home alone in an unlocked apartment.

It's those foreseeable problems which they gambled with. They could easily have found their child highly distressed after crying for 30 minutes, screaming along the street looking for her parents, or lying at the foot of those steps having fallen over the railings or the child gate.

That was how they failed in their duty of care.

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Result = happy posting.
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Offline Benice

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #2156 on: July 14, 2017, 11:24:05 AM »
If Madeleine McCann was abducted that was not foreseeable, but there's no evidence that she was. What was foreseeable was a range of other problems associated with leaving small children home alone in an unlocked apartment.

It's those foreseeable problems which they gambled with. They could easily have found their child highly distressed after crying for 30 minutes, screaming along the street looking for her parents, or lying at the foot of those steps having fallen over the railings or the child gate.

That was how they failed in their duty of care.

The open shutters and window is clear evidence of an intruder.   The fact that some people don't want to believe that Kate was telling the truth about them is irrelevant.   It's obvious that both police forces do believe her - otherwise they would not have been able to rule her out of their enquiries.

IMO when it's a case of the 'professional conclusion's arrived at by experts - versus the 'wishful thinking' of some sceptics - the professionals win hands down every time. 

IMO Some sceptics want to believe Kate lied purely because of their personal animosity towards her,   On the other hand the police are only interested in finding out what happened to Madeleine based on the evidence - and not based on their personal feelings towards anyone.     That is what separates the highly trained detectives employed by 2 police forces from the untrained amateur 'sleuths' on the internet - particularly with regard to this case, IMO.

AIMHO 

The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #2157 on: July 14, 2017, 11:31:21 AM »
The open shutters and window is clear evidence of an intruder.   The fact that some people don't want to believe that Kate was telling the truth about them is irrelevant.   It's obvious that both police forces do believe her - otherwise they would not have been able to rule her out of their enquiries.

IMO when it's a case of the 'professional conclusion's arrived at by experts - versus the 'wishful thinking' of some sceptics - the professionals win hands down every time. 

IMO Some sceptics want to believe Kate lied purely because of their personal animosity towards her,   On the other hand the police are only interested in finding out what happened to Madeleine based on the evidence - and not based on their personal feelings towards anyone.     That is what separates the highly trained detectives employed by 2 police forces from the untrained amateur 'sleuths' on the internet - particularly with regard to this case, IMO.

AIMHO

There has been no verification of the 'open window and shutters' prior to 10 pm.

You already know, no forensic indication has been found to show a third party in the apartment, and no need to mention the hairs or partial fingerprints, as proving they were made /left that night would be rather difficult.

It is also evident that the initial inquiry did not believe the McCann's either, and could find no evidence of an intruder.

In the end , of course , after Amaral's removal, the case was shelved due to lack of evidence.

Offline barrier

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #2158 on: July 14, 2017, 11:41:50 AM »
The open shutters and window is clear evidence of an intruder.   The fact that some people don't want to believe that Kate was telling the truth about them is irrelevant.   It's obvious that both police forces do believe her - otherwise they would not have been able to rule her out of their enquiries.

IMO when it's a case of the 'professional conclusion's arrived at by experts - versus the 'wishful thinking' of some sceptics - the professionals win hands down every time. 

IMO Some sceptics want to believe Kate lied purely because of their personal animosity towards her,   On the other hand the police are only interested in finding out what happened to Madeleine based on the evidence - and not based on their personal feelings towards anyone.     That is what separates the highly trained detectives employed by 2 police forces from the untrained amateur 'sleuths' on the internet - particularly with regard to this case, IMO.

AIMHO

The wishful thinking is also very evident in SY's thoughts,burgalary gone wrong? 4 arguidos? now none!
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline Benice

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #2159 on: July 14, 2017, 11:55:03 AM »
The wishful thinking is also very evident in SY's thoughts,burgalary gone wrong? 4 arguidos? now none!

Wishful thinking is not part of a detective's training.   They follow leads as a result of information they have - and that we don't have.  A lead can produce further information/knowledge helpful to the enquiry even if it doesn't prove who the perpetrator is.   If leads are not followed then that possibility is lost.
IMO
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal