Wandering Off Topic

[G-Unit]

The open shutters and window is clear evidence of an intruder.   The fact that some people don't want to believe that Kate was telling the truth about them is irrelevant.   It's obvious that both police forces do believe her - otherwise they would not have been able to rule her out of their enquiries.

IMO when it's a case of the 'professional conclusion's arrived at by experts - versus the 'wishful thinking' of some sceptics - the professionals win hands down every time. 

IMO Some sceptics want to believe Kate lied purely because of their personal animosity towards her,   On the other hand the police are only interested in finding out what happened to Madeleine based on the evidence - and not based on their personal feelings towards anyone.     That is what separates the highly trained detectives employed by 2 police forces from the untrained amateur 'sleuths' on the internet - particularly with regard to this case, IMO.

AIMHO

If a highly trained detective believes everything witnesses say he needs a refresher course in my opinion.

[G-Unit]

Wishful thinking is not part of a detective's training.   They follow leads as a result of information they have - and that we don't have.  A lead can produce further information/knowledge helpful to the enquiry even if it doesn't prove who the perpetrator is.   If leads are not followed then that possibility is lost.
IMO

Such a pity the Met was so short of these highly trained people;

Two-thirds of CID detectives in Met are not trained detectives
May 2009
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/two-thirds-of-cid-detectives-in-met-are-not-trained-detectives-6716736.html

[misty]

Such a pity the Met was so short of these highly trained people;

Two-thirds of CID detectives in Met are not trained detectives
May 2009
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/two-thirds-of-cid-detectives-in-met-are-not-trained-detectives-6716736.html

When the salary offered is not even half that of the average MP, is it any wonder that the Met has trouble recruiting or retaining staff?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/31/wanted-london-detectives-no-experience-necessary

I feel truly sorry for the officers who have to deal with the worst society has to offer on a daily basis for so little reward.

[Brietta]

If Madeleine McCann was abducted that was not foreseeable, but there's no evidence that she was. What was foreseeable was a range of other problems associated with leaving small children home alone in an unlocked apartment.

It's those foreseeable problems which they gambled with. They could easily have found their child highly distressed after crying for 30 minutes, screaming along the street looking for her parents, or lying at the foot of those steps having fallen over the railings or the child gate.

That was how they failed in their duty of care.

As you so succinctly put it "If Madeleine McCann was abducted that was not foreseeable."

What evidence can you present that might suggest any support for your speculations about Madeleine  ...

• found their child highly distressed after crying for 30 minutes ~ bearing in mind we have analysed Mrs Fenn's statement ad nauseam
• screaming along the street looking for her parents
• lying at the foot of those steps
  having fallen over the railings
  or the child gate.
  (you forgot to mention falling from the couch ... but no worries}
  

[/list]

[misty]

As you so succinctly put it "If Madeleine McCann was abducted that was not foreseeable."

What evidence can you present that might suggest any support for your speculations about Madeleine  ...

• found their child highly distressed after crying for 30 minutes ~ bearing in mind we have analysed Mrs Fenn's statement ad nauseam
• screaming along the street looking for her parents
• lying at the foot of those steps
  having fallen over the railings
  or the child gate.
  (you forgot to mention falling from the couch ... but no worries}
  

.......and comatose after overdosing on Calpol......

[G-Unit]

When the salary offered is not even half that of the average MP, is it any wonder that the Met has trouble recruiting or retaining staff?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/31/wanted-london-detectives-no-experience-necessary

I feel truly sorry for the officers who have to deal with the worst society has to offer on a daily basis for so little reward.

A starting salary of almost £30,000 would be very attractive to many people. Restricting their recruitment drive to those with degrees is a little short-sighted in my opinion.

[misty]

A starting salary of almost £30,000 would be very attractive to many people. Restricting their recruitment drive to those with degrees is a little short-sighted in my opinion.

In real terms based on living outside London, it's £23000 which is on a par with a newly qualified teacher. Maybe they only want people with degrees because of the prospect of being sued by unsuccessful applicants on the basis of racial discrimination.

[G-Unit]

In real terms based on living outside London, it's £23000 which is on a par with a newly qualified teacher. Maybe they only want people with degrees because of the prospect of being sued by unsuccessful applicants on the basis of racial discrimination.

Why should a policeman not have the same starting salary as a teacher? They both beat the starting pay of a soldier who faces more danger than either of them in theory.

Would someone with a degree not sue them if they were rejected then?

[misty]

Why should a policeman not have the same starting salary as a teacher? They both beat the starting pay of a soldier who faces more danger than either of them in theory.

Would someone with a degree not sue them if they were rejected then?

http://www.army.mod.uk/documents/general/Ratesofpay-Regular.pdf

Note the rates of pay for certain professions within the army. I presume they received the benefit of subsidised living costs.
IMO most soldiers, policeman, nurses etc are worth far more than they are paid but I think that by keeping the salary low these demanding professions attract the people who want to do the job rather than those who just want the money.

[Brietta]

Why should a policeman not have the same starting salary as a teacher? They both beat the starting pay of a soldier who faces more danger than either of them in theory.

Would someone with a degree not sue them if they were rejected then?

Any one of the new intake of the three categories of employee you have named run the risk of leaving to go to work and never returning home again.

If you think the going rate for a senior detective should match new recruits that is a matter for you bearing in mind that even Sophia Leal complained of her husband's remuneration ... so it is not entirely a situation unique to the met.

As far as I see it ... the suggestion was that if there is a shortage of detectives ... a look has to be taken at their remuneration just as at times of shortage in other professions the salary has to be a consideration.

I don't think your post suggests any solution to the issue you keyed up as a problem in an earlier post.

[sadie]

-snip-
No-one saw him ~ there is no report of any passerby noticing anything amiss.

He was able to walk from where he took the child to where he was apprehended and no-one saw him.  The little girl although seven years old was terrified yet she didn't kick, scream or struggle.

If that little girl's playmate hadn't been there to see what happened and to raise the alarm it is highly likely that little girl would never have been seen again.
 -snip-

No-one saw him. 

It was daylight and he calmly walked away carrying a sobbing, then pleading-for-help little girl.  She began kicking and flailing, trying to get free of the man’s grip

Yet, no-one saw him


It was daylight and she was sobbing, pleading, kicking and flailing ....yet no-one saw him!


It was dusk / dark when Madeleine vanished and she was asleep/drugged.   It can happen and did happen in the case of this little protesting seven year old.

Yet some of you on here, and elsewhere, cannot accept that this scenario was possible.


Time to re-adjust you thoughts, it seems.

[G-Unit]

As you so succinctly put it "If Madeleine McCann was abducted that was not foreseeable."

What evidence can you present that might suggest any support for your speculations about Madeleine  ...

• found their child highly distressed after crying for 30 minutes ~ bearing in mind we have analysed Mrs Fenn's statement ad nauseam
• screaming along the street looking for her parents
• lying at the foot of those steps
  having fallen over the railings
  or the child gate.
  (you forgot to mention falling from the couch ... but no worries}
  

In the crying possibility more evidence than can be mustered for an abduction. Please note that was a list of the POSSIBLE results of leaving small children home alone in an unlocked apartment. You know - the things any parent thinks of BEFORE they decide to go out the door.

[stephen25000]

No-one saw him. 

It was daylight and he calmly walked away carrying a sobbing, then pleading-for-help little girl.  She began kicking and flailing, trying to get free of the man’s grip

Yet, no-one saw him


It was daylight and she was sobbing, pleading, kicking and flailing ....yet no-one saw him!


It was dusk / dark when Madeleine vanished and she was asleep/drugged.   It can happen and did happen in the case of this little protesting seven year old.

Yet some of you on here, and elsewhere, cannot accept that this scenario was possible.


Time to re-adjust you thoughts, it seems.

Would that be in the same way some people can't accept the scenarios  of accidental death or walking out of the apartment as being possible ?

[G-Unit]

http://www.army.mod.uk/documents/general/Ratesofpay-Regular.pdf

Note the rates of pay for certain professions within the army. I presume they received the benefit of subsidised living costs.
IMO most soldiers, policeman, nurses etc are worth far more than they are paid but I think that by keeping the salary low these demanding professions attract the people who want to do the job rather than those who just want the money.

You forgot to explain why people with degrees don't sue for racial discrimination if rejected!

Why would someone who wanted to be a policeman go to university instead of joining the Force?

[misty]

You forgot to explain why people with degrees don't sue for racial discrimination if rejected!

Why would someone who wanted to be a policeman go to university instead of joining the Force?

There are many reasons why a person with a degree could be rejected by the police force, just as the Army does e.g tatoos/short sightedness.

Many children these days do a degree at Uni & then find that either they are unable to get work in their chosen field or that their chosen field no longer appeals to them. Joining the police is  just one option for a post-grad.