Wandering Off Topic

[slartibartfast]

Unfortunately the 'everyday dangers' in the Algarve at that time included the danger of intrusion to one's home for the purpose of burglary and the intrusion to one's home for the purpose of burglary and or to assault children.

The block of flats the McCann family occupied had suffered two burglaries in the previous weeks and other nearby premises had also been entered.

They had weighed the risks of fire or accident ... there was no evidence of fire or accident taking place ... but there was evidence of intrusion and evidence of a missing child, both of which must now be factored into any risk assessment when visiting the Algarve.

...or any other holiday destination.

[G-Unit]

Unfortunately the 'everyday dangers' in the Algarve at that time included the danger of intrusion to one's home for the purpose of burglary and the intrusion to one's home for the purpose of burglary and or to assault children.

The block of flats the McCann family occupied had suffered two burglaries in the previous weeks and other nearby premises had also been entered.

They had weighed the risks of fire or accident ... there was no evidence of fire or accident taking place ... but there was evidence of intrusion and evidence of a missing child, both of which must now be factored into any risk assessment when visiting the Algarve.

Do you investigate local crime statistics before you choose a holiday destination? Were these alleged crimes included in the local crime statistics anyway? Did you expect someone to warn the holidaymakers? Who's responsibility was it?

There was no mention of assessing risk, because it 'felt safe'.

[Brietta]

Do you investigate local crime statistics before you choose a holiday destination? Were these alleged crimes included in the local crime statistics anyway? Did you expect someone to warn the holidaymakers? Who's responsibility was it?

There was no mention of assessing risk, because it 'felt safe'.

You are the one who raised the issue regarding risk assessment.

It is now generally known that in 2007 there was a high risk factor for families with young children associated with holidaying in the Algarve.  Was it common knowledge among potential visitors at the time of Madeleine’s disappearance?

How the police chose to address the problem remains a bit of a mystery for me.  How the holiday industry chose to address the problem certainly did not include giving potential holidaymakers the relevant information to enable informed choices to be arrived at.
Nor did it include the addition of CCTV covering private areas of the resort or security lighting covering dark entrances close to the rental accommodation such as that added to block 5A after and probably as a direct result of Madeleine's disappearance.
 
With reference to the risk of fire you mentioned … if you were tasked with carrying out a risk assessment of apartment 5A … what would you make of the security grilles covering the windows which were added after - and probably as a direct result of - Madeleine’s disappearance?

[ShiningInLuz]

You are the one who raised the issue regarding risk assessment.

It is now generally known that in 2007 there was a high risk factor for families with young children associated with holidaying in the Algarve.  Was it common knowledge among potential visitors at the time of Madeleine’s disappearance?

How the police chose to address the problem remains a bit of a mystery for me.  How the holiday industry chose to address the problem certainly did not include giving potential holidaymakers the relevant information to enable informed choices to be arrived at.
Nor did it include the addition of CCTV covering private areas of the resort or security lighting covering dark entrances close to the rental accommodation such as that added to block 5A after and probably as a direct result of Madeleine's disappearance.
 
With reference to the risk of fire you mentioned … if you were tasked with carrying out a risk assessment of apartment 5A … what would you make of the security grilles covering the windows which were added after - and probably as a direct result of - Madeleine’s disappearance?

I would be grateful if you adhered to forum convention and wrapped this sort of stuff in a big IYO, because much of it does not stand up to scrutiny, IMO.

[Brietta]

I would be grateful if you adhered to forum convention and wrapped this sort of stuff in a big IYO, because much of it does not stand up to scrutiny, IMO.

              For example? ?

[ShiningInLuz]

              For example? ?

Much of it, IMO.

[G-Unit]

I have replied point by point. There seem to be a few assumptions without any cites to support them.

You are the one who raised the issue regarding risk assessment.

I was replying to you;

"They had weighed the risks of fire or accident" (#3599)

It is now generally known that in 2007 there was a high risk factor for families with young children associated with holidaying in the Algarve.  Was it common knowledge among potential visitors at the time of Madeleine’s disappearance?

In your opinion (the bolded text). It was clearly not common knowledge at the time, or the T9 would have known.

How the police chose to address the problem remains a bit of a mystery for me.  How the holiday industry chose to address the problem certainly did not include giving potential holidaymakers the relevant information to enable informed choices to be arrived at.

Did the police and holiday industry have knowledge of the 'problem'? Cite required.

Nor did it include the addition of CCTV covering private areas of the resort or security lighting covering dark entrances close to the rental accommodation such as that added to block 5A after and probably as a direct result of Madeleine's disappearance.

CCTV in the Tapas area would have been most useful, we could all have verified who left the enclosure and at what time. I imagine that the apartment owners were required to meet certain standards. Was security lighting one of them? Cite required.
 
With reference to the risk of fire you mentioned … if you were tasked with carrying out a risk assessment of apartment 5A … what would you make of the security grilles covering the windows which were added after - and probably as a direct result of - Madeleine’s disappearance?

Are you saying the security grilles constituted a fire hazard? That would be a matter for the consideration of those offering the property for rental.

[Brietta]

Much of it, IMO.

You surely must have a specific complaint?
You have specifically accused me of failing to adhere to forum convention and that my post did not stand up to scrutiny but you are unable to specify in which way.

Are you making unfounded complaints just to goad and be mischeivous?

[ShiningInLuz]

You surely must have a specific complaint?
You have specifically accused me of failing to adhere to forum convention and that my post did not stand up to scrutiny but you are unable to specify in which way.

Are you making unfounded complaints just to goad and be mischeivous?

Forum rules are quite clear re personal opinions.

Either add an IYO to your post or I will refer the matter to John.

[Angelo222]

You are the one who raised the issue regarding risk assessment.

It is now generally known that in 2007 there was a high risk factor for families with young children associated with holidaying in the Algarve.  Was it common knowledge among potential visitors at the time of Madeleine’s disappearance?

How the police chose to address the problem remains a bit of a mystery for me.  How the holiday industry chose to address the problem certainly did not include giving potential holidaymakers the relevant information to enable informed choices to be arrived at.
Nor did it include the addition of CCTV covering private areas of the resort or security lighting covering dark entrances close to the rental accommodation such as that added to block 5A after and probably as a direct result of Madeleine's disappearance.
 
With reference to the risk of fire you mentioned … if you were tasked with carrying out a risk assessment of apartment 5A … what would you make of the security grilles covering the windows which were added after - and probably as a direct result of - Madeleine’s disappearance?

You cannot blame the Algarve for what happened to Maddie, the area was no more a risk than any other region in Europe imo.  We know the area was and probably still is a favourite stomping ground for various undesirables but so are the Spanish Costas and many other resort areas all along the Mediterranean coast.  The sad truth is that tourist resorts will always be a magnet for criminals of all shades and colour, Praia da Luz is no better or no worse imo.

[Eleanor]

I have read Brietta's comment several times.

There is nothing wrong with it, and nothing that requires an IMO.

[Angelo222]

I have read Brietta's comment several times.

There is nothing wrong with it, and nothing that requires an IMO.

Brietta wrongly singled out the Algarve for criticism when it is well known that it isn't the worst region in Europe for crime.  Her "high risk" claim is greatly exaggerated and is not borne out by any historical evidence.  Had the McCanns exercised a modicum of savy that night, we wouldn't be here now discussing this event.

[slartibartfast]

I have read Brietta's comment several times.

There is nothing wrong with it, and nothing that requires an IMO.

Anyone who uses the phrase “it is known” does not have any evidence IMO.

[Eleanor]

Brietta wrongly singled out the Algarve for criticism when it is well known that it isn't the worst region in Europe for crime.  Her "high risk" claim is greatly exaggerated and is not borne out by any historical evidence.

It is The Algarve that we are discussing.  And Brietta was referring to The Ocean Club Management being aware of what had been happening, which they were.

[Vertigo Swirl]

You cannot blame the Algarve for what happened to Maddie, the area was no more a risk than any other region in Europe imo.  We know the area was and probably still is a favourite stomping ground for various undesirables but so are the Spanish Costas and many other resort areas all along the Mediterranean coast.  The sad truth is that tourist resorts will always be a magnet for criminals of all shades and colour, Praia da Luz is no better or no worse imo.

I don't think Brietta suggested it was the worst or at greater risk than other holiday destinations, just that we now know there were a number of recent break-ins in the immediate area.  It is not uncommon for resorts or public places / facilities to issue a warning about thieves currently operating in an area and to be extra vigilant.  Does this appear to have happened at the OC / other parts of PdL?