Author Topic: Wandering Off Topic  (Read 381583 times)

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Offline Eleanor

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5790 on: June 03, 2019, 11:01:33 AM »
I may have carried on longer but my job disappeared due to company reorganisation.  There were family reasons to be at home too.

Ah well, I made my own job.  I then handed my clients to a neighbour who has since handed them back to my son.

Online Wonderfulspam

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5791 on: June 03, 2019, 05:48:20 PM »

Maleah Davis' remains have been identified, authorities said Monday

By Chuck Johnston, CNN

June 3, 2019


(CNN)The remains of 4-year-old Maleah Davis have been identified, authorities said Monday.

Located in Arkansas on Friday during a search, the remains now have been positively identified as those of the missing Houston girl, the Harris County Institute of Forensic Sciences in Texas said.

The cause and manner of her death are still pending, according to the forensic institute.

Maleah was reported missing in early May by her mother's former fiancé, Derion Vence.

Vence initially told police that Maleah had been abducted by a group of men -- but investigators found signs of decay in his car and blood evidence in his apartment.

Earlier Friday, Houston police had said remains found in a bag in southwest Arkansas might belong to Maleah.
Vence was arrested and booked into the Harris County jail in May on suspicion of tampering with a human corpse, according to police.

Story raised questions

At the beginning of May, Vence told police he was driving with the young girl and his toddler son in the car when he heard a loud noise and pulled over. A group of men pulled up behind him, he said, and knocked him unconscious for nearly 24 hours. When he woke up, Vence claimed he was on the side of a road with his son, but Maleah was gone.

He said he walked to a nearby hospital, where he received treatment for his injuries and reported Maleah missing. But as detectives began collecting evidence, his account began to fall apart.

Video shows Vence was dropped off at the hospital in the car he claims was stolen, authorities said. Investigators also collected blood from his apartment that was "consistent' with DNA taken from Maleah's toothbrush.

Investigators also viewed footage captured from the porch of an apartment next to Vence's, according to the affidavit.

The footage shows Maleah entering the apartment, but she is not on video coming back out. Instead, Vence is seen leaving the apartment on May 3 carrying a large blue laundry basket with a black trash bag inside.

He returned a few minutes later and walked out of the apartment carrying cleaning supplies, including bleach, according to court documents.

Searching in Arkansas

The search for Maleah moved to Arkansas after Vence allegedly confessed to Quanell X, who visited him in jail Friday, that he dumped Maleah's body there. Quanell is a community activity who used to represent the young girl's mother.

"One thing he wanted to make clear to me was (that) what happened to Maleah was an accident, he says it was an accident. And he confessed to me where he dumped the body," the activist told CNN affiliate KTRK.

Houston police detectives along with search and rescue teams immediately headed to Arkansas. Houston police requested that local authorities begin searching near Hope, a town about 30 miles northeast of the Texas-Arkansas border.

A roadside mowing crew spotted a garbage bag emitting a foul odor near Hope, which contained the remains of a child, Hempstead County Sheriff James Singleton told CNN affiliate KTAL.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/03/us/texas-maleah-davis/index.html
"I bet the parents dunnit" (Me)

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5792 on: June 16, 2019, 03:55:30 PM »
A murder without a body: Detective reveals how cops proved victim Janet Brown was dead

Manipulative Donald Graham was jailed for life for killing his partner despite the fact that her body was never found

By Sophie Doughty
21:00, 15 JUN 2019 UPDATED 09:42, 16 JUN 2019

He came close to committing the 'perfect murder' because for years no one knew his victim was dead.

Motivated by greed, Donald Graham killed his wealthy partner Janet Brown to get his hands on her money.

And the manipulative killer managed to maintain a pretence that his victim was still alive for five years after the crime, meaning Janet's murder went uninvestigated.

But arrogant Graham was eventually caught out when an eagle-eyed bank clerk spotted a forged signature as he continued to plunder her bank account long after her death.

Graham is today behind bars for his cruel and calculated crime, but how Janet died and what happened to her body remains a mystery.

The case is thought to be Northumbria Police's only murder conviction without a body.

Today the detective that lead the investigation has lifted the lid on the bizarre and challenging case as he reveals how cops proved that Janet was dead.

Det Chief Insp Paul Woods, of Northumbria Police, said: "It could have been the perfect murder, that no one would know had taken place.

"We had to show beyond all reasonable doubt that Janet Brown was dead. There were literally thousands of enquiries that needed top be conducted to show that Janet Brown wasn't alive.

"There were a lot of questions that had to be answered. We had to look at how we prove this person is dead. We didn't have to prove how they died, but we needed to show when they died, that the death was unlawful and who was responsible for the death.  We don't have to prove motive, but that can be important evidence.

"Crucially we showed that the only reasonable explanation was that Janet Browns' murder was down to Donald Graham. "

Janet was an independent woman who enjoyed travelling and loved animals. She came from a well off family and had made her own money developing properties, which enabled her to take on casual work as a television extra and mystery shopper while spending a lot of time travelling the world alone.

She had been in a relationship with married Donald Graham for a number of years, but Graham was already married.

And Janet had moved in with her elderly parents Olive and Eric Brown, who lived at Plane Trees Farm in Lowgate, Hexham

Janet vanished in June 2005, but her disappearance was not discovered until 2010, when an investigation into suspected fraudulent activity on her bank account turned into a murder probe.

Police were alerted by a bank employee who spotted some signatures on documents relating to Janet's bank accounts did not quite match-up.

A fraud investigation was launched by Northumbria Police, but when all efforts to trace Janet failed detectives handed the case on to the force's murder squad.

Det Chief Insp Woods, who was a Detective Inspector at the time, was placed in charge.

But this was to be no straight forward investigation. While there was no trace of Janet, no body had been found.

So unlike other probes where detectives' job is to prove who killed a murder victim, Det Chief Insp Woods first had to prove that Janet was in fact dead.

Read more here:

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/murder-without-body-detective-reveals-16410597
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5793 on: June 16, 2019, 04:22:44 PM »
A murder without a body: Detective reveals how cops proved victim Janet Brown was dead

Manipulative Donald Graham was jailed for life for killing his partner despite the fact that her body was never found

By Sophie Doughty
21:00, 15 JUN 2019 UPDATED 09:42, 16 JUN 2019

He came close to committing the 'perfect murder' because for years no one knew his victim was dead.

Motivated by greed, Donald Graham killed his wealthy partner Janet Brown to get his hands on her money.

And the manipulative killer managed to maintain a pretence that his victim was still alive for five years after the crime, meaning Janet's murder went uninvestigated.

But arrogant Graham was eventually caught out when an eagle-eyed bank clerk spotted a forged signature as he continued to plunder her bank account long after her death.

Graham is today behind bars for his cruel and calculated crime, but how Janet died and what happened to her body remains a mystery.

The case is thought to be Northumbria Police's only murder conviction without a body.

Today the detective that lead the investigation has lifted the lid on the bizarre and challenging case as he reveals how cops proved that Janet was dead.

Det Chief Insp Paul Woods, of Northumbria Police, said: "It could have been the perfect murder, that no one would know had taken place.

"We had to show beyond all reasonable doubt that Janet Brown was dead. There were literally thousands of enquiries that needed top be conducted to show that Janet Brown wasn't alive.

"There were a lot of questions that had to be answered. We had to look at how we prove this person is dead. We didn't have to prove how they died, but we needed to show when they died, that the death was unlawful and who was responsible for the death.  We don't have to prove motive, but that can be important evidence.

"Crucially we showed that the only reasonable explanation was that Janet Browns' murder was down to Donald Graham. "

Janet was an independent woman who enjoyed travelling and loved animals. She came from a well off family and had made her own money developing properties, which enabled her to take on casual work as a television extra and mystery shopper while spending a lot of time travelling the world alone.

She had been in a relationship with married Donald Graham for a number of years, but Graham was already married.

And Janet had moved in with her elderly parents Olive and Eric Brown, who lived at Plane Trees Farm in Lowgate, Hexham

Janet vanished in June 2005, but her disappearance was not discovered until 2010, when an investigation into suspected fraudulent activity on her bank account turned into a murder probe.

Police were alerted by a bank employee who spotted some signatures on documents relating to Janet's bank accounts did not quite match-up.

A fraud investigation was launched by Northumbria Police, but when all efforts to trace Janet failed detectives handed the case on to the force's murder squad.

Det Chief Insp Woods, who was a Detective Inspector at the time, was placed in charge.

But this was to be no straight forward investigation. While there was no trace of Janet, no body had been found.

So unlike other probes where detectives' job is to prove who killed a murder victim, Det Chief Insp Woods first had to prove that Janet was in fact dead.

Read more here:

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/murder-without-body-detective-reveals-16410597


It Takes a long time to gather circumstancial evidence in these cases. I don't know if I read this correctly- she had arranged for some one to look after her dog for a short term. did those people not become suspicious?
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline Faithlilly

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5794 on: June 16, 2019, 04:27:16 PM »
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jun/14/margaret-fleming-carers-found-guilty-of-murder



Carers found guilty of missing woman's murder 20 years ago
Edward Cairney and Avril Jones killed Margaret Fleming to get vulnerable teenager’s benefits
Press Association
Fri 14 Jun 2019 13.44 BST Last modified on Fri 14 Jun 2019 17.34 BST

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 Margaret Fleming
 Margaret Fleming went to live with Edward Cairney and Avril Jones after the death of her father. Photograph: Crown Office/PA
A man and a woman have been convicted of murdering a vulnerable woman they should have been caring for almost two decades ago.

Margaret Fleming, who had learning difficulties, vanished “from the face of the Earth” around December 1999. Her body has never been found.

Following a seven-week trial at the high court in Glasgow, Edward Cairney, 77, and Avril Jones, 59, were found guilty of murdering the missing woman.

Jurors found the couple murdered her by unknown means between 18 December 1999 and 5 January 2000 at their home in Inverkip, Inverclyde, or elsewhere in Scotland, and then tried to cover up the crime for almost 18 years.

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Jones was also convicted unanimously of fraudulently claiming £182,000 in benefits by pretending Fleming, who would now have been in her late 30s, was alive.

The pair will be sentenced on 17 July.

Police launched an investigation after it became apparent in October 2016 that Fleming was missing. Routine social services inquiries were said to have sparked concerns over her whereabouts.

The case attracted major police resources and significant media attention as it was claimed the last independent sighting of her had been at a family event on 17 December 1999.

As the inquiry progressed, it appeared something “sinister” had happened and that she may have come to harm. Specialist teams combed the cottage where she had lived and excavated its grounds in their search for clues that might to help track her down.

Her supposed carers were arrested in October 2017. During their trial, which began in April, Fleming was described by prosecutors as a “friendless and lonely” young woman who had significant difficulties.

She went to live at the pair’s Seacroft home as a teenager after the death of her father because those closest to her “didn’t want her”. By October 1999, various benefits for Fleming flowed into the household, which was said to have had financial difficulties.

The crown suggested it had been tempting for the couple to have the money but not the “inconvenience” of looking after her. How and exactly when Fleming died may never be clearly known. It remains, as the defence highlighted, a case without a body or crime scene.

Holding them jointly responsibility for the death, the crown claimed the couple “literally got away with murder for 16 years”. Money was the motive for them to cook up an “elaborate scheme” to conceal her disappearance, the court heard.

They were brought down by “greed, arrogance and lies” after Jones made claims of Fleming having “fantastical” illnesses and conditions in correspondence with benefits officials.

As police closed in on the couple, they struggled to reconcile claims she both worked as a gangmaster and was capable of travelling overseas, and that she had major difficulties that entitled her to a number of benefits.

Det Supt Paul Livingstone, the senior investigating officer, said: “Margaret was a very vulnerable young woman who was manipulated, abused, neglected and ultimately murdered by the two people who should have been looking after her.

“It is clear that one of Cairney and Jones’ motivations was money … For many years, Cairney and Jones kept up the pretence that Margaret was still alive, going as far as to write letters claiming to be from her.

“Margaret was described as being a funny, caring young woman who, despite having some mild learning difficulties, just wanted to be liked and to have friends. The treatment which she was subjected to can only be described as horrific and the conditions in which she lived in were utterly disgusting and uninhabitable..”


'She ( Kate) did, she brought it up and that she, I mean, this is awful in retrospect as well, she asked what my opinion was on, erm, tut, on whether they were okay leaving the, the doors unlocked, because she was saying 'Is it better that if Madeleine wakes up she can get out and find us or', erm, 'or locking it and, you know, finding that we're not there and the door's locked if she woke up', because Madeleine had woken up, what I thought was the night before. Erm, tut, and it was in that context really, just asking, you know, what I thought. So it was obviously something that was on her mind a bit, huh'.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5795 on: June 16, 2019, 04:32:05 PM »
Where’s our summer? Lost at sea, says Met Office amid new storm warnings
June 16 2019, 12:01pm,
Jonathan Leake, Science Editor

A man wades through water in Wainfleet, Lincolnshire, where hundreds of properties were evacuated
A man wades through water in Wainfleet, Lincolnshire, where hundreds of properties were evacuated
For deep-sea fishermen and yachties, it could be the best summer yet. As Britain soaks in one of its wettest Junes, the mid-Atlantic is basking in blue skies, sunshine and calm, warm seas.

Satellite imagery shows how the large zone of sunny high pressure that would normally be warming the UK by this time in the summer is trapped far out to sea.

It means the powerful rain-soaked depression that has lodged itself over the UK for the past week will stay in place — and be reinforced by a tropical storm over southern England and Wales on Tuesday or Wednesday.

Linconlshire police said residents should be prepared to spend two days away from their homes
Linconlshire police said residents should be prepared to spend two days away from their homesJOE GIDDENS/PA
“Summer is happening — there’s glorious sunshine and high pressure — if you’re in the mid-Atlantic,” said Simon Partridge, a Met Office forecaster. “The jet stream has formed a loop which is blocking it from reaching us.

“There’s also a deep low-pressure system forming off Spain which will head our way on Tuesday or Wednesday laden with warm moist tropical air. We could see temperatures of 26C but with rain and thunderstorms, too.”

The warning comes after a week of below-average temperatures, torrential rain and flooding across much of Britain. The wettest UK June was in 2012, with more than double the average rainfall, but with two weeks of the month left to go — and more rain likely — this year could be a record-breaker.

Yesterday 16 flood warnings remained in force in England, mostly across a section of the country stretching from Hull down to the Wash in the east and then across to Gloucester, Birmingham and Shrewsbury in the west.

Hundreds of properties in Wainfleet, Lincolnshire, were evacuated and residents moved to temporary accommodation amid fears of flooding from the River Steeping, which burst its banks. Linconlshire police said residents should be prepared to spend two days away from their homes.

A driver in Kent trapped in his car by rising floodwater described how he was saved only by his wife and son who broke into the vehicle with a claw hammer.

“I really thought my number was up,” said Pip Bassett, 65, who was driving near Gravesend when chest-high floods carried his car into a dip and jammed his doors. Bassett used his mobile phone to call his family, who rescued him.

Forecasters say the rest of the summer looks unsettled and potentially disappointing. One even described it as the “Brexit summer”.

The Met Office’s three-month predictions say that July and August are likely to be unusually warm — but also warn there is a risk of above-average rain.

“It could be a long, grey summer,” said one forecaster.
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline misty

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5796 on: June 18, 2019, 10:23:21 PM »
You couldn't make it up.....


https://www.portugalresident.com/2019/06/18/gnr-torture-case-fails-on-appeal/
By portugalresident  2019-06-18 Posted  2019-06-18  InTop Stories 
A GNR agent accused of torture eight years ago has seen his tardy condemnation overturned on appeal.

At the initial trial which went ahead after the case was reopened due to complaints by the European Committee Against Torture, one of the judges said: “It’s not by chance that Portugal is targeted by international entities. Their police officers and prison guards go far beyond what should be their conduct”.

But a procedural ‘error’ in the trial meant that it has been annulled on appeal by a new panel of judges in Évora.

Now it is unclear what will happen. The GNR officer in question – no longer ‘in the field’ and since promoted – may have to face another trial, or the whole issue could end up being forgotten.

The torture involved the officer allegedly whipping four known felons with a very unpleasant homemade weapon known as a ‘picha de bói’ (made of animal skin), punching them and cutting one on the buttocks as he warned the group to keep away from what he called ‘his territory’.

The officer – a corporal at the time – denied the charges.

As Público explains, the case may never have got to trial. It was only that in 2013 the European Committee Against Torture dedicated an entire chapter in one of its reports on the story, saying that the authorities in Portugal had not conducted a diligent investigation into the victims’ complaints.

Two years later the case was ‘reopened’ and a panel of judges condemned the now Major to four and a half years in jail, ruling that his answers over how the victims got their injuries were ‘contemptible’.

However, the leader of the bench slipped up in the form that he delivered the sentence. The officer was condemned for one crime of torture, when it should have been four (corresponding to the number of victims). And it was that omission that caused the ruling to be overturned.

Had judges in Évora not annulled the lower court’s sentence, it would have been the first time that a GNR officer was condemned to jail-time for torture, explains Público.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5797 on: June 20, 2019, 10:15:57 PM »
I’ve just watched the first two parts of the Docu-drama “When They See Us” about the Central Park Five, a truly appalling case of miscarriage of justice.  It has reinforced to me why you should always answer no comment to police questions, but if the police start roughing you up and torturing you, then it’s easy for them to get you to say anything they want you to say, regardless of the fact that there is literally no evidence against you.  This is a brilliant series, and should be watched by anyone with an interest in miscarriages of justice and prejudiced, corrupt and brutal police tactics in their pursuit of a conviction.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2019, 07:16:44 AM by Vertigo Swirl »
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline Carana

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5798 on: June 21, 2019, 06:58:56 AM »
I’ve just watched the first two parts of the Docu-drama “When They See Us” about the Central Park Five, a truly appalling case of miscarriage of justice.  It has reinforced to me why you should always answer no comment to police questions, but if the police start roughing you up and torturing you, then it’s easy for them to get you to day anything they want you to say, regardless of the fact that there is literally no evidence against you.  This is a brilliant series, and should be watched by anyone with an interest in miscarriages of justice and prejudiced, corrupt and brutal police tactics in their pursuit of a conviction.

High on my to-watch list.

False confessions and incriminating statements lead to wrongful convictions in approximately 25 percent of cases. Looking only at the homicide cases, false confessions are the leading contributor to wrongful convictions, contributing to 64 (62%) of the 104 homicide wrongful convictions that were overturned by DNA evidence, where as misidentifications contributed to only 32 (31%) of the homicide wrongful convictions. Twenty-nine of the DNA exonerees pled guilty to crimes they did not commit. The Innocence Project encourages police departments to electronically record all custodial interrogations in their entirety in order to prevent coercion and to provide an accurate record of the proceedings.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/DNA_Exonerations_Nationwide.php
(Dead link, but I originally posted this several years ago.)

And guess who took out a full-page ad to advocate their execution? *
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Paf8MPhSG08

That's one of the reasons why I wouldn't necessarily hold up the US as a leading light in the conduct of criminal justice. To be fair, though, DNA was in its infancy in '89 and at least someone bothered to keep the evidence.

Heaven help those who get convicted when there is no DNA evidence, or none kept, that could exonerate them.

* A bit more on the Orange-one's stance on this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LdIBdqTJ84

Rather than the above, I found this by Chris Cuomo more informative.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U60Vk-xt8tI


A few more statistics on DNA exonerations:
https://www.innocenceproject.org/dna-exonerations-in-the-united-states/
« Last Edit: June 21, 2019, 08:14:52 AM by Carana »

Offline barrier

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5799 on: June 21, 2019, 09:07:10 AM »
I’ve just watched the first two parts of the Docu-drama “When They See Us” about the Central Park Five, a truly appalling case of miscarriage of justice.  It has reinforced to me why you should always answer no comment to police questions, but if the police start roughing you up and torturing you, then it’s easy for them to get you to say anything they want you to say, regardless of the fact that there is literally no evidence against you.  This is a brilliant series, and should be watched by anyone with an interest in miscarriages of justice and prejudiced, corrupt and brutal police tactics in their pursuit of a conviction.

You don't need to watch miscarriages of justice in other countries,the Birmingham six is of the same,torture.


For 16 years every other aspect of the case was disregarded; that the men were, in Paddy Hill's words, "tortured and framed" on arrest, beaten, subjected to mock executions, threatened with being thrown from a high building or a car on the motorway, and burnt with cigarettes; that their torturers were the infamous West Midlands serious crime squad, or that the scientist called to Heysham was the incompetent Dr Skuse. They were failed by everyone. Cut and visibly bruised when they were taken from the police station to the magistrates' court, the solicitors who saw them first succeeded in getting legal aid forms signed, but failed to log their injuries.
https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2011/mar/12/gareth-peirce-birmingham-six


    Can you build an Emerald city with these grains of sand?       


Online G-Unit

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5800 on: June 21, 2019, 11:14:54 AM »
You don't need to watch miscarriages of justice in other countries,the Birmingham six is of the same,torture.


For 16 years every other aspect of the case was disregarded; that the men were, in Paddy Hill's words, "tortured and framed" on arrest, beaten, subjected to mock executions, threatened with being thrown from a high building or a car on the motorway, and burnt with cigarettes; that their torturers were the infamous West Midlands serious crime squad, or that the scientist called to Heysham was the incompetent Dr Skuse. They were failed by everyone. Cut and visibly bruised when they were taken from the police station to the magistrates' court, the solicitors who saw them first succeeded in getting legal aid forms signed, but failed to log their injuries.
https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2011/mar/12/gareth-peirce-birmingham-six

Even the Met aren't whiter than white;

Scotland Yard facing biggest corruption scandal in 40 years
https://www.theweek.co.uk/95221/scotland-yard-facing-biggest-corruption-scandal-in-40-years
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Eleanor

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5801 on: June 21, 2019, 11:58:02 AM »
Even the Met aren't whiter than white;

Scotland Yard facing biggest corruption scandal in 40 years
https://www.theweek.co.uk/95221/scotland-yard-facing-biggest-corruption-scandal-in-40-years

You think that anyone thinks that these things are acceptable?  Or are you suggesting that Operation Grange is Corrupt?

Offline John

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5802 on: June 21, 2019, 12:15:28 PM »
As another weekend approaches can I ask everyone to please follow the forum rules. The hard pressed moderators do an excellent job in keeping things moving so do consider them next time you feel you need to have a go at someone. 

Let's try and set a new record this weekend by drastically cutting the number of moderated posts. As an incentive, the prize for the member whose has the most posts moderated/deleted over Saturday and Sunday will be a two day ban.

Happy posting!
« Last Edit: June 21, 2019, 12:17:49 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes egregious malfeasance by public officials.
The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Eleanor

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5803 on: June 21, 2019, 12:45:10 PM »
As another weekend approaches can I ask everyone to please follow the forum rules. The hard pressed moderators do an excellent job in keeping things moving so do consider them next time you feel you need to have a go at someone. 

Let's try and set a new record this weekend by drastically cutting the number of moderated posts. As an incentive, the prize for the member whose has the most posts moderated/deleted over Saturday and Sunday will be a two day ban.

Happy posting!


Good.  Although no doubt some will think it is unfair.

Offline Robittybob1

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Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5804 on: June 21, 2019, 01:11:33 PM »
As another weekend approaches can I ask everyone to please follow the forum rules. The hard pressed moderators do an excellent job in keeping things moving so do consider them next time you feel you need to have a go at someone. 

Let's try and set a new record this weekend by drastically cutting the number of moderated posts. As an incentive, the prize for the member whose has the most posts moderated/deleted over Saturday and Sunday will be a two day ban.

Happy posting!


Its going to be a quiet weekend.
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.