Wandering Off Topic

[Wonderfulspam]

If we believe the US/EU funded Centre for Strategic International Studies then since 2022 Ukraine has suffered just 125k to 150k fatalities. Zelensky claims it is only 50k. By contrast Russia is reported to have suffered 400k to 450k fatalities. So Ukraine are winning by a huge margin. Despite advancing backwards.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Not just economics but because there was no good reason to. How would Russia have benefited from attacking European & Nato countries, their energy customers, prior to 2014? Even post 2022, it wouldn't be in Russia's interest to attack NATO & draw them further into the conflict. So why would they do it?

Taken from elsewhere

?to stoke national pride and draw eyes away from domestic failures. It provides propaganda opportunities, new resources, and a great distraction?.
Russia is a shadow of its former self as the once mighty Soviet Union and Putin takes its weakened state personally - he is a meglomaniac, unhinged, quite possibly irrational, cutting of his nose to spite his face.  A bit like Trump in many ways.  What did the USA have to gain by bombing Iran?  Did they want Iran to control the Strait of Hormuz and to make themselves look like complete idiots on the world stage, was that their game plan?  Unhinged, irrational, dangerous, greedy.
Putin thought he could roll into Ukraine, blow up a few buildings, hang Zelensky from a lampost and be greeted by its 40 million inhabitants as a hero and saviour.  He didn?t think things through, he didn?t bank on the war dragging on for years, nor did he apparently forsee the fact that the rest of Europe would seize Russian assets and impose punitive sanctions.   There was no good reason for the war in Ukraine apart from power grab and for self-aggrandisement.  Ukraine wasn?t planning to invade Russia, neither was NATO, the so-called de-nazification thing is a confected nonsense, a Putin pretext, since when did Nazis ever elect a Jew to lead them?

[Wonderfulspam]

Taken from elsewhere

?to stoke national pride and draw eyes away from domestic failures. It provides propaganda opportunities, new resources, and a great distraction?.
Russia is a shadow of its former self as the once mighty Soviet Union and Putin takes its weakened state personally - he is a meglomaniac, unhinged, quite possibly irrational, cutting of his nose to spite his face.  A bit like Trump in many ways.  What did the USA have to gain by bombing Iran?  Did they want Iran to control the Strait of Hormuz and to make themselves look like complete idiots on the world stage, was that their game plan?  Unhinged, irrational, dangerous, greedy.
Putin thought he could roll into Ukraine, blow up a few buildings, hang Zelensky from a lampost and be greeted by its 40 million inhabitants as a hero and saviour.  He didn?t think things through, he didn?t bank on the war dragging on for years, nor did he apparently forsee the fact that the rest of Europe would seize Russian assets and impose punitive sanctions.   There was no good reason for the war in Ukraine apart from power grab and for self-aggrandisement.  Ukraine wasn?t planning to invade Russia, neither was NATO, the so-called de-nazification thing is a confected nonsense, a Putin pretext, since when did Nazis ever elect a Jew to lead them?

Why are you relying on someone else to make your arguments VS?  This argument appears, predictably, to be based on Putin = Hitler. With a misinformed idea that Putin believed he'd be popular in West Ukraine, where people are known to hate Russia. What is your source for this Tripe VS?

[Wonderfulspam]

The anonymous blog post VS appeals to also builds a strawman. That all West Ukrainians are Nazis who elected a Jew. No one is claiming ALL of Ukraine are Nazis. But, there is a neo Nazi faction in West Ukraine, & statues to a Nazi collaborator. Zelensky was a TV personality groomed for the role of President by Western influence.

[Wonderfulspam]

So the logic for attacking NATO is that Russia are losing in Ukraine, & will therefore attack NATO, draw them further into the conflict & make things even more difficult for themselves. Doesn't really make much sense when you think about it.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Why are you relying on someone else to make your arguments VS?  This argument appears, predictably, to be based on Putin = Hitler. With a misinformed idea that Putin believed he'd be popular in West Ukraine, where people are known to hate Russia. What is your source for this Tripe VS?

The first line of my post was taken from elsewhere - quotation marks appear as question marks on this godforsaken forum.  The rest of the post is my words, my opinion.  You think it is tripe, well I have a very similar opinion of everything you post.

[Vertigo Swirl]

The anonymous blog post VS appeals to also builds a strawman. That all West Ukrainians are Nazis who elected a Jew. No one is claiming ALL of Ukraine are Nazis. But, there is a neo Nazi faction in West Ukraine, & statues to a Nazi collaborator. Zelensky was a TV personality groomed for the role of President by Western influence.

There are hundreds of thousands of neo-Nazis in the USA, is that a good enough prextext to attack the country, or even a part of the country?  Zelensky was hugely underestimated by Putin and is doing a pretty good job of bringing it to the Russians.  I was convinced he?d be dead within the first few weeks of the war.  Didn?t happen.  I think he?s still got the support of the majority of Ukranians.  Good on him.

[Vertigo Swirl]

So the logic for attacking NATO is that Russia are losing in Ukraine, & will therefore attack NATO, draw them further into the conflict & make things even more difficult for themselves. Doesn't really make much sense when you think about it.

Neither does their war in Ukraine when you think about it.  Did Putin really think NATO countries would not come to Ukraine?s aid in the form of supplying money and weapons?  He?s already dawn them into the conflict indirectly.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Russia's military is roughly 1m + around 1m reservists. NATO, 3.5m + reservists. So, whilst currently bogged down in East Ukraine, I'm not really sure it would make much sense for Russia to attack NATO, the larger army, trigger article 5 & expand the war. So, I wonder why VS believes it likely, despite it being completely illogical, that Russia would attack NATO? Probably because she's been conditioned to believe that Putin = Hitler & Russia = Bad. Glugging down the NATO cool aid as she accuses me of believing Russian propaganda.

Russia doesn?t need to use an army to attack NATO, it?s already been attacking NATO for years and continues to make attempts to weaken Europe through its attacks on our cybersecurity, our infrastructure and by undermining the West however it can.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Ok so which former Soviet countries (like East Germany) do you believe Russia intends to attack & occupy & for what reason?

East Germany was not part of the Soviet Union and so I wasn?t referring to them, silly.  Germany is also now part of NATO and I doubt very much even Putin would go as far as to attempt an invasion.  However Ukraine is part of Europe, it was also part of the former Soviet Union, was not part of NATO and it was physically attacked.  If you look at a map you will find other former Soviet states that currently remain neutral (ie not a part of NATO) which are vulnerable to Russian expansionist intent.

[Wonderfulspam]

There are hundreds of thousands of neo-Nazis in the USA, is that a good enough prextext to attack the country, or even a part of the country?  Zelensky was hugely underestimated by Putin and is doing a pretty good job of bringing it to the Russians.  I was convinced he?d be dead within the first few weeks of the war.  Didn?t happen. I think he?s still got the support of the majority of Ukranians. Good on him.

It's impossible to know because he won't hold elections. Do you think the majority in Donetsk ,Luhansk & Crimea support Zelensky?

[Wonderfulspam]

Russia doesn?t need to use an army to attack NATO, it?s already been attacking NATO for years and continues to make attempts to weaken Europe through its attacks on our cybersecurity, our infrastructure and by undermining the West however it can.

When did Russia attack our infrastructure?

[Wonderfulspam]

East Germany was not part of the Soviet Union and so I wasn?t referring to them, silly.  Germany is also now part of NATO and I doubt very much even Putin would go as far as to attempt an invasion.  However Ukraine is part of Europe, it was also part of the former Soviet Union, was not part of NATO and it was physically attacked.  If you look at a map you will find other former Soviet states that currently remain neutral (ie not a part of NATO) which are vulnerable to Russian expansionist intent.

What makes you believe Russia has expansionist intent? Because it intervened in a civil war in Ukraine? Considering they've lost 450k troops, compared to Zelenskys 50k, how do you suppose Russia will successfully expand into hostile territory?

[Wonderfulspam]

Neither does their war in Ukraine when you think about it.  Did Putin really think NATO countries would not come to Ukraine?s aid in the form of supplying money and weapons?  He?s already dawn them into the conflict indirectly.

NATO began sending lethal aid to Ukraine (officially) in 2018.

[Wonderfulspam]

'Anyone who doesn't regret the passing of the Soviet Union has no heart. Anyone who wants it restored has no brains.'