Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?

[Alfred R Jones]

G Unit's heart is breaking while suspecting them of heniuos crimes? wow, really, do share. Or are you implying that is the conflicting status of Mr Smith? in that case a wee cite would be great.

read back.  Mrs Smith said that their hearts were breaking for Madeleine's parents, is this the kind of comment you would make if you suspected the self-same parents were guilty of covering up the death of a child and perpetuating a huge fraud? 

[Brietta]

One wonders why there are two threads on Martin Smith.

• Was Martin Smith mistaken about his 60% - 80% certainty after all?
• Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?

[mercury]

One wonders why there are two threads on Martin Smith.

• Was Martin Smith mistaken about his 60% - 80% certainty after all?
• Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?

Yes I wondered too but wasn't worth a post, best pm forum owners and mods if worried

[ferryman]

In all events, the one-word answer to both title-threads is yes.

[faithlilly]

In all events, the one-word answer to both title-threads is yes.

No he hasn't ferryman. SY found him and his wife credible witnesses, not a description I would have thought they'd have used if he'd flip-flopped about his identification.

[Brietta]

Mr. McCluskey states the thought had never crossed his mind that a child's parents could be implicated in such a matter. Media coverage over the past week or so has cased him to take a renewed interest in the case. The only thing which prevents Mr. McCluskey from stating he in 100% certain in his "identification" is the fact that he would , in his words, " hate to incriminate and innocent person."

Mr McCluskey appears to be a credible person and is not recorded on local intelligence systems.
137 Handwritten Richard McCluskey statement
I do not believe that Martin Smith is courting the press and my view his is a genuine person. He is known locally and is a very decent person.

    :: :: ::    :: :: ::    :: :: ::    :: :: ::
 

Another thing which has played on my mind is the coverage of Mr McCann walking off the aeroplane holding one of his young children. The way he was holding the child over his left shoulder reminded me of the man carrying the child from the white van in Portugal.
... something struck me that it could have been the same person. It was the way Gerard McCann turned his head down which was similar to what the individual did on 3rd May 2007 when we met him. It may have been the way he was carrying the child either. I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerard McCann that I met that night carrying a child. I am basing that on his mannerism in the way he carried the child off the plane.

Although I could not describe the male I'd seen in Portugal because he had his back to me, it was the particular way Mr. McCann held the child that made me think. He held the child over his left shoulder with his left arm supporting the child?s weight.
— States that it is not possible for him to recognise the individual in person or by photograph.

                               Mr Smith's statement in blue.


Two credible witnesses.
Two witness statements in which it is stated that neither witness is able to identify the man seen carrying a child.
Two additions to witness statements months after the event ... both as a result of exposure to the media.
Two changed statements ... but the other witnesses present at the events have not changed theirs.

Mr Smith was only 60 to 80% sure that he recognised the carrier.
Mr McCluskey was in effect 100% sure that he too recognised the carrier.

The difference lies in the fact the PJ had ruled out one sighting and not the other:  otherwise think what powerful 'evidence' that would have been for sceptics ... not only a 60 to 80% but a 100% surety with which to make mischief.

The perception which caused Mr McCluskey to erroneously make an additional statement must be measured against Mr Smith's statement. 
The Rebelo investigation which had access to both the Smith and McCluskey statements chose not to follow up on the Smith changes and I very much doubt they were in ignorance particularly as Ricardo Paiva was involved.

In my opinion it is perfectly obvious why not ... and why we discuss Mr Smith ad nauseam is one of life's mysteries.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RI_Mc.htm

 

[faithlilly]

Mr. McCluskey states the thought had never crossed his mind that a child's parents could be implicated in such a matter. Media coverage over the past week or so has cased him to take a renewed interest in the case. The only thing which prevents Mr. McCluskey from stating he in 100% certain in his "identification" is the fact that he would , in his words, " hate to incriminate and innocent person."

Mr McCluskey appears to be a credible person and is not recorded on local intelligence systems.
137 Handwritten Richard McCluskey statement
I do not believe that Martin Smith is courting the press and my view his is a genuine person. He is known locally and is a very decent person.

    :: :: ::    :: :: ::    :: :: ::    :: :: ::
 

Another thing which has played on my mind is the coverage of Mr McCann walking off the aeroplane holding one of his young children. The way he was holding the child over his left shoulder reminded me of the man carrying the child from the white van in Portugal.
... something struck me that it could have been the same person. It was the way Gerard McCann turned his head down which was similar to what the individual did on 3rd May 2007 when we met him. It may have been the way he was carrying the child either. I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerard McCann that I met that night carrying a child. I am basing that on his mannerism in the way he carried the child off the plane.

Although I could not describe the male I'd seen in Portugal because he had his back to me, it was the particular way Mr. McCann held the child that made me think. He held the child over his left shoulder with his left arm supporting the child?s weight.
— States that it is not possible for him to recognise the individual in person or by photograph.

                               Mr Smith's statement in blue.


Two credible witnesses.
Two witness statements in which it is stated that neither witness is able to identify the man seen carrying a child.
Two additions to witness statements months after the event ... both as a result of exposure to the media.
Two changed statements ... but the other witnesses present at the events have not changed theirs.

Mr Smith was only 60 to 80% sure that he recognised the carrier.
Mr McCluskey was in effect 100% sure that he too recognised the carrier.

The difference lies in the fact the PJ had ruled out one sighting and not the other:  otherwise think what powerful 'evidence' that would have been for sceptics ... not only a 60 to 80% but a 100% surety with which to make mischief.

The perception which caused Mr McCluskey to erroneously make an additional statement must be measured against Mr Smith's statement. 
The Rebelo investigation which had access to both the Smith and McCluskey statements chose not to follow up on the Smith changes and I very much doubt they were in ignorance particularly as Ricardo Paiva was involved.

In my opinion it is perfectly obvious why not ... and why we discuss Mr Smith ad nauseam is one of life's mysteries.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RI_Mc.htm

Yet SY still find Martin Smith and his wife credible witnesses. Not, you'd think, an accolade they'd bestow if they thought the couple had changed their minds at least once.

[pegasus]

(snip) ...The Rebelo investigation which had access to both the Smith and McCluskey statements chose not to follow up on the Smith changes and I very much doubt they were in ignorance particularly as Ricardo Paiva was involved. ...(snip)

It was Paiva who made the Sept 27th international phonecall to Mr Smith in Ireland and asked him if he would be willing to return to Portugal.

[Vicky]

The Smith sighting always perplexes me. I do not understand how he can decide 4 months on, and simply because of the way the child was being held, that it was likely to be Gerry,

I also don't believe (if Gerry was hiding a dead child) he would parade through the streets carrying said child.

Same as I have never believed Tannerman could be the abductor. As it would have been preplanned, and as such, there would have been some other means of getting the child away than boldly marching through the streets at (what I assume would be) a busy time of night.

[jassi]

It could have been a spur of the moment thing. Local child-stealer comes across small child wandering in street, snatches her and disappears off into the darkness, only to be spotted close up  by pesky tourists.

[Vicky]

It could have been a spur of the moment thing. Local child-stealer comes across small child wandering in street, snatches her and disappears off into the darkness, only to be spotted close up  by pesky tourists.

Yeah that would make a lot of sense I guess. But we are continually told there is absolutely no possibility Madeleine could have left the apartment herself...which kind of diminishes the chance of this considerably.

[ShiningInLuz]

The Smith sighting always perplexes me. I do not understand how he can decide 4 months on, and simply because of the way the child was being held, that it was likely to be Gerry,

I also don't believe (if Gerry was hiding a dead child) he would parade through the streets carrying said child.

Same as I have never believed Tannerman could be the abductor. As it would have been preplanned, and as such, there would have been some other means of getting the child away than boldly marching through the streets at (what I assume would be) a busy time of night.

Hi and welcome.

If you ever make it out to Luz, I'll be happy to show you the Tannerman scene at that time of the evening.  It is an area of Luz that has no bars or restaurants, except for what was then the Tapas restaurant.  Take out the Tapas 9 traffic, and what you have is a very quiet area. 

There were other people, according to reports, but not a lot.

[blonk]

The Smith sighting always perplexes me. I do not understand how he can decide 4 months on, and simply because of the way the child was being held, that it was likely to be Gerry.

At last! - A voice of sheer common sense on the alleged Smith sighting. It is just astonishing how gullible people can be to swallow Martin Smith's nonsense - and when he made his statement on 20 September 2007 it was nearer 5 months on than 4. The fact that he has very clearly co-operated with the McCann Team since around January 2008 also fatally undermines the extraordinary claim he made to the Irish police on 20 September.

Someone up the thread said that Scotland Yard had certified Martin Smith as a 'credible witness'.

Sorry, don't buy it.

Watch the Panorama programme on BBC on Monday and see how widespread police corruption in the U.K. is these days     

[Brietta]

It was Paiva who made the Sept 27th international phonecall to Mr Smith in Ireland and asked him if he would be willing to return to Portugal.

As I said ... the Rebelo investigation chose not to follow up on the Smith statement changes.

[Vicky]

Hi and welcome.

If you ever make it out to Luz, I'll be happy to show you the Tannerman scene at that time of the evening. It is an area of Luz that has no bars or restaurants, except for what was then the Tapas restaurant.  Take out the Tapas 9 traffic, and what you have is a very quiet area. 

There were other people, according to reports, but not a lot.

Heh, I may actually take you up on that someday. Portugal is somewhere I have wanted to go for a while.

At last! - A voice of sheer common sense on the alleged Smith sighting. It is just astonishing how gullible people can be to swallow Martin Smith's nonsense - and when he made his statement on 20 September 2007 it was nearer 5 months on than 4. The fact that he has very clearly co-operated with the McCann Team since around January 2008 also fatally undermines the extraordinary claim he made to the Irish police on 20 September.

Someone up the thread said that Scotland Yard had certified Martin Smith as a 'credible witness'.

Sorry, don't buy it.

Watch the Panorama programme on BBC on Monday and see how widespread police corruption in the U.K. is these days   

Thank you. I haven't read the whole thread or anything but I would have thought I was not the only person to point out how ridiculous the Smith signing was. Not the sighting in itself, but the identification of Gerry some months on. You cannot identify someone by the way they carry a child, as if each way of holding is unique to each person...its crazy

Not to smear Smith or anything, but my gut feeling was that  Gerry was fingered purely to get the blame off Murat (who I also think is innocent, weird, but innocent) given part of his statement was that the person he saw was definitely NOT Murat...