Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?

[ferryman]

Eddie's cadaver alert was correct. You believe what a serial liar tells you which figures. Maybe he hates dogs like you 

What?

Whose 'serial lies' am I believing?

[mercury]

No, it didn't.  The police would have brought the prosecution with, or without, the dog's alert, which was never produced in court to the jury (uncorroborated dog-alerts are excluded as evidence in English courts).

But the police used the dog-alert as their (untested and unpresented, to the jury) assumption that Prout had murdered his wife in the lounge of the matrimonial home.

He murdered Kate several hundred yards away, in an outhouse.

You dont know what happened when and where, before durng and after, ergo, pointless trying to diss eddie

[ferryman]

You dont know what happened when and where, before durng and after, ergo, pointless trying to diss eddie

It so happens I don't.

I don't dismiss the possibility that the dog alerted to residual scent from Prout's clothes, cross-transferred to the matrimonial home, after he had buried Kate.

But I don't take that for granted .....

And if that's wrong, then dog alerted falsely ....

[mercury]

It so happens I don't.

I don't dismiss the possibility that the dog alerted to residual scent from Prout's clothes, cross-transferred to the matrimonial home, after he had buried Kate.

But I don't take that for granted .....

And if that's wrong, then dog alerted falsely ....

So u have no reason to promote the idea that the dig alerted falsely, thats fine and sorted then

[Mr Gray]

You dont know what happened when and where, before durng and after, ergo, pointless trying to diss eddie

in order for the alerts to be of any value they need independent scientific verification...even Grime does not confirm them

[pathfinder73]

eddie finds cadaver scent quickly.....so why did he have to be repeatedly brought back to areas he had previously ignored...the alerts are a complete joke

SY used them in this case recently so it's no joke to them. If there's no body then it's harder for a dog to find the source.

[mercury]

in order for the alerts to be of any value they need independent scientific verification...even Grime does not confirm them

How many times do u have to be told that there is no such thing as scientific confrmation for a cadaver scent alert?

There is for blood and as we know the forensics were inconclusive

Even if conclusive, blood forensics on their own dont prove a thing, its a matter of cumulative intelligence/Evidence

[ferryman]

How many times do u have to be told that there is no such thing as scientific confrmation for a cadaver scent alert?

There is for blood and as we know the forensics were inconclusive

Even if conclusive, blood forensics on their own dont prove a thing, its a matter of cumulative intelligence/Evidence

In order for the alerts to be of value there needs to be forensic verification.

Note, carefully, that in the above sentence there is no reference to cadaver alert ...

[mercury]

In order for the alerts to be of value there needs to be forensic verification.

Note, carefully, that in the above sentence there is no reference to cadaver alert ...

Well exactly, as there is none, do i have to repeat my previous post?

[sadie]

BUMPED

My dear Pfinder, you keep repeating that Smithman checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 22H03.  How do you know if Smithman checked his watch or not?   You weren't there ... and nobody saw him after he passed the Smith Family..

Please can you tell us where you got this "information" from.

It's not disinformation, is it?

You even have this ?disinformation? as your avatar 

[G-Unit]

In order for the alerts to be of value there needs to be forensic verification.

Note, carefully, that in the above sentence there is no reference to cadaver alert ...

During a police investigation all sorts of material is amassed. Statements, CCTV images. photographs,forensics, and, in some cases, dog alerts. Detectives analyse the material as they go along. Some of it leads in one direction, some in another. Some of it requires confirmation such as appeals for further witnesses. Not all of it will be used as evidence in any subsequent court case, but all of it is potentially important until eventually detectives decide to follow one particular line of inquiry. Until then all the material remains possibly important. Anyone who thinks multiple dog alerts would be completely discounted because no definitive forensic evidence was found to support them is fooling themselves imo. They remain a part of the picture until evidence is found proving that they were wrong.

[slartibartfast]

During a police investigation all sorts of material is amassed. Statements, CCTV images. photographs,forensics, and, in some cases, dog alerts. Detectives analyse the material as they go along. Some of it leads in one direction, some in another. Some of it requires confirmation such as appeals for further witnesses. Not all of it will be used as evidence in any subsequent court case, but all of it is potentially important until eventually detectives decide to follow one particular line of inquiry. Until then all the material remains possibly important. Anyone who thinks multiple dog alerts would be completely discounted because no definitive forensic evidence was found to support them is fooling themselves imo. They remain a part of the picture until evidence is found proving that they were wrong.

Good post.

[Alice Purjorick]

During a police investigation all sorts of material is amassed. Statements, CCTV images. photographs,forensics, and, in some cases, dog alerts. Detectives analyse the material as they go along. Some of it leads in one direction, some in another. Some of it requires confirmation such as appeals for further witnesses. Not all of it will be used as evidence in any subsequent court case, but all of it is potentially important until eventually detectives decide to follow one particular line of inquiry. Until then all the material remains possibly important. Anyone who thinks multiple dog alerts would be completely discounted because no definitive forensic evidence was found to support them is fooling themselves imo. They remain a part of the picture until evidence is found proving that they were wrong.

Presactly.

[ferryman]

During a police investigation all sorts of material is amassed. Statements, CCTV images. photographs,forensics, and, in some cases, dog alerts. Detectives analyse the material as they go along. Some of it leads in one direction, some in another. Some of it requires confirmation such as appeals for further witnesses. Not all of it will be used as evidence in any subsequent court case, but all of it is potentially important until eventually detectives decide to follow one particular line of inquiry. Until then all the material remains possibly important. Anyone who thinks multiple dog alerts would be completely discounted because no definitive forensic evidence was found to support them is fooling themselves imo. They remain a part of the picture until evidence is found proving that they were wrong.

Grime himself acknowledges that handler-bias can influence a dog's reactions, and I know Alfred has found a study (nothing to do with Grime) where precisely that phenomenon accounted for all a dog's reactions.

Handler-bias: the findMadeleine stickers on the back of the Renault Scenic.

The disproportionate time spent in apartment 5a compared with any other apartment.

The re-examination of clothing (in the gym) present during the inspection in the villa, but not evincing any interest from Eddie.

The interest in the toy, only after it had been hidden, not while he could see it, sniff it and play with it.

[mercury]

Grime himself acknowledges that handler-bias can influence a dog's reactions, and I know Alfred has found a study (nothing to do with Grime) where precisely that phenomenon accounted for all a dog's reactions.

Handler-bias: the findMadeleine stickers on the back of the Renault Scenic. Proves nothing

The disproportionate time spent in apartment 5a compared with any other apartment. Not disproportionate as explained umpteen times, eddie alerted in 5a wihin 4 minutes, iirc, not forgetting his "immediate" interest on entering the flat, absent otherwise elsewhere, that is why the flat was more thoroughly searched, as opposed to other places not alerted to in 5 mins


The re-examination of clothing (in the gym) present during the inspection in the villa, but not evincing any interest from Eddie. There was no re-examination, if an item is stuffed somewhere it might not elicit a response, seeing as it would be at least secondary if not more  contamination

The interest in the toy, only after it had been hidden, not while he could see it, sniff it and play with it.

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