Author Topic: Slarti's Simple Solution.  (Read 77162 times)

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Offline Brietta

Re: Slarti's Simple Solution.
« Reply #300 on: February 27, 2016, 12:40:46 PM »
I remain convinced that the man Jane Tanner saw was the abductor.  There is no way in which anyone would have been coming from the Night Creche from that direction.  It just isn't possible.

I don't know why Andy Redwood even thought this, although just perhaps he was trying to confuse the real abductor.  But I don't believe that either.

Maybe he didn't have the knowledge that we have, although God forbid that he was that ignorant.

I don't have a problem with the abductor walking around Luz for three quarters of an hour.  That can be explained far more easily than some person carrying his own child across his arms and coming from the wrong direction.

There is no doubt in my mind either that if the abductor was seen ... he was the man seen by Jane Tanner.

He was seen at the relevant time in the relevant place from where a child was abducted. 

If a plasma screen had been stolen and a man had been seen carrying one just outside the place it had been stolen from ... what deduction would the police be expected to make if a witness told them about seeing him?
At the least he would have to be traced and interviewed to eliminate him as the thief.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Benice

Re: Slarti's Simple Solution.
« Reply #301 on: February 27, 2016, 12:41:44 PM »
I think it's perfectly clear. The key was mentioned twice on 4th; there was no key for the patio doors. The PJ questioned him on 10th about changing which door he had used and he accepted that he had changed it;

In this way, at about 21.05 the witness came to the Club, entered the room using his respective key, the door being locked,

At about 22.00 it was his wife Kate who went to check on the children. She entered the apartment by the door using the key
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN.htm


Despite what he said in his previous statements, he states now and with certainty, that he left with KATE by the rear door which he consequently closed but did not lock given that that is only possible from the inside. Referring to the front door, while he is certain that it was closed it is unlikely that it was locked as [because] they had left by the rear door.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

Pure speculation on my part G but IMO as two doors were being discussed - the interviewing officer - purely for his own benefit -and for reasons of clarification -  may have distinguished between the doors by making reference to a key himself - whenever he thought it was the wooden front door (that had a key)  that was being mentioned.   

Unless someone can come up with a believable reason why Gerry would say he went in by the roadside door - when that is soooooo inexplicable  -  then IMO it can only be confusion over which door was which that caused the statement to be incorrect.   

We know from the UK officer interviewing JT that there was previous confusion over the doors.
IMO she may have been referring to the confusion which arose when Gerry gave his first statement.

The likelihood of misunderstandings occurring during that first interview was massive IMO and understandably so IMO.     It was the first time for everyone involved, there was the language barrier, no familiarity with the scene -  and Gerry's obvious distress,trauma and lack of sleep at that time which must have affected him.

As I said before he may well have said he went in by the front door (meaning the patio door) - and so it would not be wrong to state that that was what he originally said.

If we could have seen a verbatim statement then I'm sure we would have been able to identify the moment when the misunderstanding first occurred - but which then carried on throughout the statement.   I presume that when Gerry was able to read his first statement in English - he then noticed the error.


AIMO


The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Slarti's Simple Solution.
« Reply #302 on: February 27, 2016, 12:43:12 PM »
There is no doubt in my mind either that if the abductor was seen ... he was the man seen by Jane Tanner.

He was seen at the relevant time in the relevant place from where a child was abducted. 

If a plasma screen had been stolen and a man had been seen carrying one just outside the place it had been stolen from ... what deduction would the police be expected to make if a witness told them about seeing him?
At the least he would have to be traced and interviewed to eliminate him as the thief.

It's a question of if it is in Curry's car park.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Carana

Re: Slarti's Simple Solution.
« Reply #303 on: February 27, 2016, 12:43:33 PM »
How does someone who is bilingual misunderstand opening a locked door with a key when entered via an unlocked door was supposedly said? Where did they pluck the word key from ? Aren't you in danger of blaming the police /translators for every witness statement  inconsistency? IMO there's two options...he lied or he was confused

No. I'm not accusing anyone of lying.

Have you ever been in a similar situation? It's easy for one party or another to get confused, when in a rush.

Offline mercury

Re: Slarti's Simple Solution.
« Reply #304 on: February 27, 2016, 12:49:25 PM »
No. I'm not accusing anyone of lying.

Have you ever been in a similar situation? It's easy for one party or another to get confused, when in a rush.

You didn't answer my post,but never mind

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Slarti's Simple Solution.
« Reply #305 on: February 27, 2016, 12:51:37 PM »
As a trained medic, Gerry doesn't seem the sort who would put his signature to something he didn't understand.

as a trained medic Gerry would understand that his signature on that document did not count for much....just as a patients signature on a consent form is not confirmation that the patient has had the treatment explained and has understood

Offline Brietta

Re: Slarti's Simple Solution.
« Reply #306 on: February 27, 2016, 12:55:45 PM »
It's a question of if it is in Curry's car park.

Now there is a very valid point.

In my younger day it used to be a regular occurrence for robbers to arrive at stores - schools - public buildings etc -  dressed as delivery men and make off with a consignment of goods.
No-one checked at the time that anybody had authorised or knew what they were about ... it only became apparent later when the stock was missed.
All it took was a brass neck.

Similarly the thought never crossed Jane Tanner's mind that she was witnessing Madeleine's abduction until the alarm was raised that Madeleine was gone.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Carana

Re: Slarti's Simple Solution.
« Reply #307 on: February 27, 2016, 01:02:54 PM »
You didn't answer my post,but never mind


Sorry, Mercury.

Read up. I find it perfectly plausible that the officer / interpreter were taking notes to get the gist of the layout of the flat.

Enter back/front door confusion.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Slarti's Simple Solution.
« Reply #308 on: February 27, 2016, 01:15:27 PM »

Sorry, Mercury.

Read up. I find it perfectly plausible that the officer / interpreter were taking notes to get the gist of the layout of the flat.

Enter back/front door confusion.

You can confuse 'front' and 'back' but not 'key' and 'slide'. A key is a key. Only one door had a key, no matter how the door is described.

Had Kate not had her conversation at the table about leaving the patio doors open we could have speculated that Gerry did indeed lock up then decided to leave the patio door open after his 9.05pm check for some reason.
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Offline Carana

Re: Slarti's Simple Solution.
« Reply #309 on: February 27, 2016, 01:21:08 PM »
You can confuse 'front' and 'back' but not 'key' and 'slide'. A key is a key. Only one door had a key, no matter how the door is described.

Had Kate not had her conversation at the table about leaving the patio doors open we could have speculated that Gerry did indeed lock up then decided to leave the patio door open after his 9.05pm check for some reason.


Try this.

A PJ officer and/ or the "interpreter" were trying to get the gist of the layout of the flat in order to understand.

One door = key needed.

Other door = no key needed.

Get back and front mixed up in the rush.




Offline mercury

Re: Slarti's Simple Solution.
« Reply #310 on: February 27, 2016, 01:25:28 PM »

Sorry, Mercury.

Read up. I find it perfectly plausible that the officer / interpreter were taking notes to get the gist of the layout of the flat.

Enter back/front door confusion.

What you are saying is that the interpreter embellished the witness statement. There was no need to say a key was used as the door was locked if nothing of the sort was said IMO! Talk about doing somersaults to ensure it wasn't Gerry who got it "wrong"

Offline Carana

Re: Slarti's Simple Solution.
« Reply #311 on: February 27, 2016, 01:25:44 PM »
You can confuse 'front' and 'back' but not 'key' and 'slide'. A key is a key. Only one door had a key, no matter how the door is described.

Had Kate not had her conversation at the table about leaving the patio doors open we could have speculated that Gerry did indeed lock up then decided to leave the patio door open after his 9.05pm check for some reason.

If that had been the case in a lying conspiratorial scenario, wouldn't they have all colluded to give the same version? If not, why not?

Offline Carana

Re: Slarti's Simple Solution.
« Reply #312 on: February 27, 2016, 01:27:02 PM »
What you are saying is that the interpreter embellished the witness statement. There was no need to say a key was used as the door was locked if nothing of the sort was said IMO!

NOOOOO. That's not what I'm saying at all.




Offline pegasus

Re: Slarti's Simple Solution.
« Reply #313 on: February 27, 2016, 01:42:21 PM »
It is obvious that in the heavily summarised transcription of that 4th May interview, the translation and transcription processes have confused an earlier event, when he entered via the wooden door using a key, with the 21:05 check, when he entered via the balcony door.

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Slarti's Simple Solution.
« Reply #314 on: February 27, 2016, 01:43:25 PM »
Re. Doors and keys :
Jassi called it right about 5 hours ago.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey