Cyanoacrylate (Superglue) Fuming Chamber And The Blood Flake

[david1819]

Most of what Julie said was not found in RWB's diary. The most damning things were all said by her only such as all about the long term planning he had been doing. The content of the 3 phone discussions she had with him, 1 before the murders and 2 after were not contained in the diary.  The hitman story was not in his diary.  Nothing suggests she saw that diary and consulted with Boutflour anyway before speaking to police.  You don't want to believe her so simply look for something you can hang your hat on to avoid admitting you just don't want to and want to pretend you have some rational reason for not believing her.

Below is part of Julies statement taken on the 9th of September


Now here are two parts of RWBs diary from the 26th and 29th of August




I do not believe in coincidences. Your telling me RWB correctly predicted exactly how Jeremy allegedly reveals  his plan to Julie before she came forward? Its too convenient full stop

[scipio_usmc]

Below is part of Julies statement taken on the 9th of September


Now here are two parts of RWBs diary from the 26th and 29th of August




I do not believe in coincidences. Your telling me RWB correctly predicted exactly how Jeremy allegedly reveals  his plan to Julie before she came forward? Its too convenient full stop

It's not in the least bit surprising he figured out Jeremy used the window in light of having knowledge the family used such windows before.

Nor is it surprising they thought he might have used a bike.  The family didn't believe his lie about his mother giving him the bike to use for Julie, that was one of the things that made them suspicious about the bike the other was mud on it showing it had been ridden at WHF. There is nothing odd about them figuring out what Jeremy did including figuring out he removed the scope in anticipation of committing the crime.

You choose to believe she got it from RWB despite no evidence he spoke to her about it just because of bias not because of any rational reason to believe she got together with police or the family to make up a story.

You don't want to believe Jeremy told her anything though he called her before he even called police.  Clearly he called her because he had kept her appraised prior of his efforts.  He was excited and could not contain himself he had to share his excitement or he would explode.  In all likelihood he phoned her before he even claimed to have been called by Nevill.  Even her phone stored a time and it said 3:05 thus being made 10 minutes before he claimed to have received the call from Nevill (3:15) his apologists would simply say he got the time he received the call from Nevill wrong and it must have come before 3:05.  There is always some excuse made to try to avoid facing he evidence and his guilt.   

[david1819]

It's not in the least bit surprising he figured out Jeremy used the window in light of having knowledge the family used such windows before.

Nor is it surprising they thought he might have used a bike.  The family didn't believe his lie about his mother giving him the bike to use for Julie, that was one of the things that made them suspicious about the bike the other was mud on it showing it had been ridden at WHF. There is nothing odd about them figuring out what Jeremy did including figuring out he removed the scope in anticipation of committing the crime.

You choose to believe she got it from RWB despite no evidence he spoke to her about it just because of bias not because of any rational reason to believe she got together with police or the family to make up a story.

You don't want to believe Jeremy told her anything though he called her before he even called police.  Clearly he called her because he had kept her appraised prior of his efforts.  He was excited and could not contain himself he had to share his excitement or he would explode.  In all likelihood he phoned her before he even claimed to have been called by Nevill.  Even her phone stored a time and it said 3:05 thus being made 10 minutes before he claimed to have received the call from Nevill (3:15) his apologists would simply say he got the time he received the call from Nevill wrong and it must have come before 3:05.  There is always some excuse made to try to avoid facing he evidence and his guilt.

I don't believe Jeremy told her anything because I look at the evidence.

RWBs diary written in August he speculates that Jeremy used a bike, dyed his hair, used a scuba suit and had help from an "accomplice" Now in Julies September statement all this is confirmed to a T by Julie Mugford! It only takes a shade of sense to work out unless your going to prove that RWB was a psychic?

According to Julie, Jeremy hired Mathew Mcdonald yet at the same time Jeremy used a bike on the way to kill his family? contradicts the story. Now Jeremy is telling Julie two separate versions of events at the same time that contradict one another. Jeremy is then telling her about the scuba suit and dying his hair when at the same time he claiming Mathew Mcdonald was the killer? If we are to take Julies word then that means Mathew Macdonald killed the family while Jeremy randomly went on a bike ride in the fields wearing a scuba suit? Yup Sounds Legit   

[adam]

It is a fact that Bamber dyed his hair just before the massacre.

Julie said Bamber planned to cycle to to WHF and do trial runs. This is backed up with another fact,  that the bike was brought over to his cottager just before the massacre. After the massacre he decided to give himself a proxy of MM. Which was a good move.

Bamber did own a wetsuit. If he wore one, it would have been under his clothes. Wetsuits are quite thick and would protect his skin from injuries. But also flexible so would not restrict his movement. Where does Julie's WS say Bamber planned to wear a wetsuit ?

[Caroline]

I don't believe Jeremy told her anything because I look at the evidence.

RWBs diary written in August he speculates that Jeremy used a bike, dyed his hair, used a scuba suit and had help from an "accomplice" Now in Julies September statement all this is confirmed to a T by Julie Mugford! It only takes a shade of sense to work out unless your going to prove that RWB was a psychic?

According to Julie, Jeremy hired Mathew Mcdonald yet at the same time Jeremy used a bike on the way to kill his family? contradicts the story. Now Jeremy is telling Julie two separate versions of events at the same time that contradict one another. Jeremy is then telling her about the scuba suit and dying his hair when at the same time he claiming Mathew Mcdonald was the killer? If we are to take Julies word then that means Mathew Macdonald killed the family while Jeremy randomly went on a bike ride in the fields wearing a scuba suit? Yup Sounds Legit

Clearly he would have to get to and from WHF and seeing the bicycle at his house in Head Street would lead someone to assume he may have used that. He had to get in and out of the house so this would lead someone to speculate about which window. You say you follow the evidence BUT you always try to make it 'fit' without looking at the alternative - Jeremy said he 'INTENDED' to use the bicycle PRIOR to the murders not that he DID use it because after the murders, he said he'd hired MM. It's not Julies contradiction, it's Jeremy changing the story before and after the event. Were does Julie mention being told about the scuba suit, I thought it was RWB who mentioned that? She already knew he dyed his hair because she helped him do it.

[scipio_usmc]

I don't believe Jeremy told her anything because I look at the evidence.

RWBs diary written in August he speculates that Jeremy used a bike, dyed his hair, used a scuba suit and had help from an "accomplice" Now in Julies September statement all this is confirmed to a T by Julie Mugford! It only takes a shade of sense to work out unless your going to prove that RWB was a psychic?

According to Julie, Jeremy hired Mathew Mcdonald yet at the same time Jeremy used a bike on the way to kill his family? contradicts the story. Now Jeremy is telling Julie two separate versions of events at the same time that contradict one another. Jeremy is then telling her about the scuba suit and dying his hair when at the same time he claiming Mathew Mcdonald was the killer? If we are to take Julies word then that means Mathew Macdonald killed the family while Jeremy randomly went on a bike ride in the fields wearing a scuba suit? Yup Sounds Legit

You are not following the evidence you are ignoring it.  You have made up that Boutflour fed information to Julie to allege even though you have zero evidence they had contact. 

Julie said he told her he planned to kill them and blame Sheila and that part of his plan involved using a bike.  That is what she said he told her BEFORE the murders.  She said that after the murders he claimed he didn't personally go there on the bike to kill them but rather hired a hitman to do it.  There is no conflict except in your mind. She said what he told her he was planning and that he claimed he changed things and hired a hitman instead.

Since he lied about a hitman doing it and didn't tell Julie how he got there we don't know whether he followed through with his plan and took the bike or whether he used his car or even walked though I find that extremely unlikely. I personally would have driven and he could have decided to do so. The chance of anyone being on the road at all let alone who would recognize him and his vehicle and be able to tell police they remembered seeing him is so remote it is not something that would deter a reasonable person.  He could have acted unreasonably and decided to stick with the bike though or even to walk.

[scipio_usmc]

Clearly he would have to get to and from WHF and seeing the bicycle at his house in Head Street would lead someone to assume he may have used that. He had to get in and out of the house so this would lead someone to speculate about which window. You say you follow the evidence BUT you always try to make it 'fit' without looking at the alternative - Jeremy said he 'INTENDED' to use the bicycle PRIOR to the murders not that he DID use it because after the murders, he said he'd hired MM. It's not Julies contradiction, it's Jeremy changing the story before and after the event. Were does Julie mention being told about the scuba suit, I thought it was RWB who mentioned that? She already knew he dyed his hair because she helped him do it.

Exactly, there is no contradiction between saying he told her he was planning to kill them and to get there and back using his bike but after the murder he told her he changed things and had someone else kill them. 

RWB was overthinking things.  Jeremy had all the time he wanted to wash up and change his clothing before calling police.  There was no reason he had to wear any protective clothing beyond gloves.  Moreover, the crime was not very bloody so even though the killer would be hit with some spatter it would not be large amounts of blood that were extremely noticeable at first glance. He was not examined thoroughly for blood in his hair or tiny spatter on his clothing.  His clothing was not examined until a month later after it had been washed. There is no way to know if he retained any clothing he used during the murders or got rid of it all. 

A jacket had what looked like spatter on it but it had been washed and a month passed from the murders before police seized it and testing of it was inconclusive.  Had they not returned it to him and kept it all these years they could have tried DNA testing or other advanced testing to try to assess the composition of the stains but they returned it to him and no one knows what he did with it so we will never know.   

In a situation where police immediately get to a scene after a murder and someone little opportunity to change or wash that is a much different situation.  Then the speculation about wearing coveralls etc comes about. Like on TV where you see a crook removing painting coveralls and sticking them in the trash before they are picked up by police. In real life people have tried such things and still been found to have tiny bits of blood in their hair. They were immediately tested though. Jeremy wasn't.

Julie didn't take RWB's claims though and advance them. From the time she first came clean to police she did not  change her story by claiming Jeremy admitted to killing them.  Her story was always that Jeremy told her he wanted to kill them and of ideas he had, called her after the murders to tell her they were dead, and later that day claimed he didn't personally kill them but rather hired a hitman to do it. 

 

[APRIL]

I don't believe Jeremy told her anything because I look at the evidence.

RWBs diary written in August he speculates that Jeremy used a bike, dyed his hair, used a scuba suit and had help from an "accomplice" Now in Julies September statement all this is confirmed to a T by Julie Mugford! It only takes a shade of sense to work out unless your going to prove that RWB was a psychic?

According to Julie, Jeremy hired Mathew Mcdonald yet at the same time Jeremy used a bike on the way to kill his family? contradicts the story. Now Jeremy is telling Julie two separate versions of events at the same time that contradict one another. Jeremy is then telling her about the scuba suit and dying his hair when at the same time he claiming Mathew Mcdonald was the killer? If we are to take Julies word then that means Mathew Macdonald killed the family while Jeremy randomly went on a bike ride in the fields wearing a scuba suit? Yup Sounds Legit

You seem to have left out of the equation, that almost to the point when she spoke to police, Julie "was very much in love with Jeremy and had hoped to marry him". Why, then, would she collude with RWB, who'd believed him guilty from the start, to incriminate him?

[APRIL]

I don't believe Jeremy told her anything because I look at the evidence.

RWBs diary written in August he speculates that Jeremy used a bike, dyed his hair, used a scuba suit and had help from an "accomplice" Now in Julies September statement all this is confirmed to a T by Julie Mugford! It only takes a shade of sense to work out unless your going to prove that RWB was a psychic?

According to Julie, Jeremy hired Mathew Mcdonald yet at the same time Jeremy used a bike on the way to kill his family? contradicts the story. Now Jeremy is telling Julie two separate versions of events at the same time that contradict one another. Jeremy is then telling her about the scuba suit and dying his hair when at the same time he claiming Mathew Mcdonald was the killer? If we are to take Julies word then that means Mathew Macdonald killed the family while Jeremy randomly went on a bike ride in the fields wearing a scuba suit? Yup Sounds Legit

It's unlikely that he tinted his hair specifically to commit the murders. Julie coloured it for him -to cover bleach which had gone wrong and as a consequence it went black instead of brown- before the house warming party at the weekend. Colin comments on it in his book. How much of this is RWB likely to have known? As you say, he SPECULATES.

[scipio_usmc]

It's unlikely that he tinted his hair specifically to commit the murders. Julie coloured it for him -to cover bleach which had gone wrong and as a consequence it went black instead of brown- before the house warming party at the weekend. Colin comments on it in his book. How much of this is RWB likely to have known? As you say, he SPECULATES.

I don't understand any of the babble of about his hair being dyed.  It seemed to me some were speculating he did it in case he had to run away and try to hide.  I don't really understand what else people allege with respect to it. This is one of the things I view as a complete red herring and not even worth bothering with.

[Myster]

I don't understand any of the babble of about his hair being dyed.  It seemed to me some were speculating he did it in case he had to run away and try to hide.  I don't really understand what else people allege with respect to it. This is one of the things I view as a complete red herring and not even worth bothering with.

It is, as you say, all fluff and nonsense.  One story goes that he wanted to dye it so that it would match Julie's jet-black hair; and another so that it would contrast with his skin to give him a paler, more mournful look at the funeral.

[APRIL]

I don't understand any of the babble of about his hair being dyed.  It seemed to me some were speculating he did it in case he had to run away and try to hide.  I don't really understand what else people allege with respect to it. This is one of the things I view as a complete red herring and not even worth bothering with.

It added to RWB's speculative list along with a wet suit -add to that a bike and we have a modern day Don Quixote tilting at windmills. The needing to run away and hide would have made perfect sense if his hair had been bright orange.

[david1819]

You are not following the evidence you are ignoring it.  You have made up that Boutflour fed information to Julie to allege even though you have zero evidence they had contact. 

No you are ignoring the evidence.

RWB was in frequent contact with the police and was giving them his ideas/theories then two weeks later Julie tells the police exactly what RWB speculates! I don't believe RWB fed Julie the information but the police fed Julie the theories that RWB gave them.

Julies testimony in September is a counterfeit make-believe. Because it contains multiple contradictory narratives that a truthful story would not contain and not only that it has false information about the crime that the newspapers were publishing. Then the biggest comedy of the whole thing is that we then have to believe that Jeremy commits the perfect murder framing his sister and then decides to incriminate himself telling Julie he paid a mercenary thus making him complicit in the murder with a story that is not even true.

[APRIL]

No you are ignoring the evidence.

RWB was in frequent contact with the police and was giving them his ideas/theories then two weeks later Julie tells the police exactly what RWB speculates! I don't believe RWB fed Julie the information but the police fed Julie the theories that RWB gave them.

Julies testimony in September is a counterfeit make-believe. Because it contains multiple contradictory narratives that a truthful story would not contain and not only that it has false information about the crime that the newspapers were publishing. Then the biggest comedy of the whole thing is that we then have to believe that Jeremy commits the perfect murder framing his sister and then decides to incriminate himself telling Julie he paid a mercenary thus making him complicit in the murder with a story that is not even true.

So you're saying, are you, -irrelevant of what you're presenting as evidence- there are just two options? We either accept that Julie told police what Jeremy told her OR we accept that she made up a tissue of lies which could, and did, lead to a totally innocent and blameless man being convicted to life imprisonment for a crime he didn't commit.

[Caroline]

No you are ignoring the evidence.

RWB was in frequent contact with the police and was giving them his ideas/theories then two weeks later Julie tells the police exactly what RWB speculates! I don't believe RWB fed Julie the information but the police fed Julie the theories that RWB gave them.

Julies testimony in September is a counterfeit make-believe. Because it contains multiple contradictory narratives that a truthful story would not contain and not only that it has false information about the crime that the newspapers were publishing. Then the biggest comedy of the whole thing is that we then have to believe that Jeremy commits the perfect murder framing his sister and then decides to incriminate himself telling Julie he paid a mercenary thus making him complicit in the murder with a story that is not even true.

David, earlier on you said

RWBs diary written in August he speculates that Jeremy used a bike, dyed his hair, used a scuba suit and had help from an "accomplice" Now in Julies September statement all this is confirmed to a T by Julie Mugford! It only takes a shade of sense to work out unless your going to prove that RWB was a psychic?

Where did Julie mention the scuba suit? By the way, Jeremy didn't commit the perfect murder, Jones was on to him from day 1.