Author Topic: Why didn't the dogs alert to any of Gerry's clothing?  (Read 112823 times)

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Offline pegasus

Re: Why didn't the dogs alert to any of Gerry's clothing?
« Reply #465 on: March 31, 2016, 05:54:08 PM »
Is it possible keycard was on dining table?

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Why didn't the dogs alert to any of Gerry's clothing?
« Reply #466 on: March 31, 2016, 07:44:41 PM »
Whether by prearrangement with the handler or not (I got the impression he was somewhat puzzled to find that pink garment in the cupboard) someone may have been moving garments around.
Why they should do so is a mystery.  If the dog paid no attention to it when it was on the bed he wasn't going to take any notice of it in another place ... with the exception of the gymnasium.

I find the whole episode totally confusing as did the PJ officers in Rebelo's team.

Eddie was searching for the strongest scent source at the crime scene not a toy on a bed. The bed was stripped of the covers 3 months before Eddie arrived.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline misty

Re: Why didn't the dogs alert to any of Gerry's clothing?
« Reply #467 on: March 31, 2016, 08:38:42 PM »
At 3m23 can anyone else hear the sound of the front paws on the chair seat as Eddie put his front paws on the chair seat to lean up at 45 degrees and his head appears for a split second at tabletop height to sniff the tabletop foillowed immediately by barking?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4NMYPsFKb8

Great spot. I can't hear the paws but quick freeze frames do show Eddie's head up above tabletop height & then a single bark follows. Nothing on chair then?
What was underneath the pillows? Move to 10m25 & MH(?) placing CC on table. Chair has gone, pillows & yellow pillowcases have gone (possibly into box behind table?)...is that a large brown envelope +what else where pillows would have been?
Red & green/yellow items still on cupboard top.
The key fob - I thought the McCanns had driven away from the premises before the dog went in?
Why wasn't Keela deployed to screen the cupboard & surrounding objects?

Offline Brietta

Re: Why didn't the dogs alert to any of Gerry's clothing?
« Reply #468 on: March 31, 2016, 08:46:45 PM »
Eddie was searching for the strongest scent source at the crime scene not a toy on a bed. The bed was stripped of the covers 3 months before Eddie arrived.

Agreed PF.  Indeed the bedclothes from Madeleine's bed were washed by housekeeping shortly after her disappearance.  What a pity they weren't retained.

However, with reference to the video of the search in the villa ... we see a pink garment on the bed which the dog ignores we later see that pink garment in the cupboard which again the dog ignores.
Obviously someone moved it from the bed and put it in the cupboard which is a bit of a puzzlement as to the purpose of doing that.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline pegasus

Re: Why didn't the dogs alert to any of Gerry's clothing?
« Reply #469 on: March 31, 2016, 09:09:13 PM »
(snip) I can't hear the paws (snip)
IMO sound is there at 3m23 keratin against wood

Offline misty

Re: Why didn't the dogs alert to any of Gerry's clothing?
« Reply #470 on: March 31, 2016, 09:17:33 PM »
IMO sound is there at 3m23 keratin against wood

I believe you, I just can't hear it. The audio on my laptop is not brilliant, or maybe it's just my hearing failing in old age.

Offline pegasus

Re: Why didn't the dogs alert to any of Gerry's clothing?
« Reply #471 on: April 01, 2016, 02:22:12 AM »
I believe you, I just can't hear it. The audio on my laptop is not brilliant, or maybe it's just my hearing failing in old age.
IMO the reason why he did not alert on his first passes near the dining chair, is that he did not check up on the tabletop. Only when he checks up on tabletop does he alert.

Offline Brietta

Re: Why didn't the dogs alert to any of Gerry's clothing?
« Reply #472 on: April 01, 2016, 10:39:21 AM »
IMO the reason why he did not alert on his first passes near the dining chair, is that he did not check up on the tabletop. Only when he checks up on tabletop does he alert.

In my opinion the dog did not alert to the contents of the cupboard whatever convoluted route the scent may have taken.

In your opinion, not necessarily to something on top of the cupboard either (whether or not neatly folded clothes or folders) but to something on the table top?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline pegasus

Re: Why didn't the dogs alert to any of Gerry's clothing?
« Reply #473 on: April 01, 2016, 11:34:47 AM »
In my opinion the dog did not alert to the contents of the cupboard whatever convoluted route the scent may have taken.

In your opinion, not necessarily to something on top of the cupboard either (whether or not neatly folded clothes or folders) but to something on the table top?
IMO the first alert is to something on top of sideboard, and the second alert is to something on top of dining table.

Offline Brietta

Re: Why didn't the dogs alert to any of Gerry's clothing?
« Reply #474 on: April 01, 2016, 02:12:19 PM »
IMO the first alert is to something on top of sideboard, and the second alert is to something on top of dining table.

My confusion arises from where he was when he began serious barking.

It is difficult to get video coverage of dogs reacting as trained when locating a scent.  I have read about one VRD who immediately lies down at the spot and we have seen Keela 'freezing'.
A VRD is also trained to bark because in the nature of the job the search area may be wide ranging ... but what area is the animal pin pointing while barking?

Eddie was not looking at either surface when barking; he had moved away and was looking directly at his handler who must have been standing in line with the camera operator.

OK the search was not for remains only a residual scent ... but why move away from the source which prompted barking?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline misty

Re: Why didn't the dogs alert to any of Gerry's clothing?
« Reply #475 on: April 02, 2016, 12:22:12 AM »
IMO the reason why he did not alert on his first passes near the dining chair, is that he did not check up on the tabletop. Only when he checks up on tabletop does he alert.

Eddie passes by the back of the table twice & didn't alert. Grime led him around (you can briefly see Grime standing with his back to the table at the very place where Eddie then jumped up to).
Eddie only sniffed at the table in the one place before barking. Why only that one place? Why wasn't he directed to sniff the rest of the table?
Grime can next be seen tapping the bottom of the far cupboard door, where I believe he expected to find CC rather than in the adjoining cupboard.
It is impossible to know exactly what, if anything, Eddie was alerting to.

Offline pegasus

Re: Why didn't the dogs alert to any of Gerry's clothing?
« Reply #476 on: April 02, 2016, 01:56:16 PM »
Eddie passes by the back of the table twice & didn't alert. Grime led him around (you can briefly see Grime standing with his back to the table at the very place where Eddie then jumped up to).
Eddie only sniffed at the table in the one place before barking. Why only that one place? Why wasn't he directed to sniff the rest of the table?
Grime can next be seen tapping the bottom of the far cupboard door, where I believe he expected to find CC rather than in the adjoining cupboard.
It is impossible to know exactly what, if anything, Eddie was alerting to.
These 3 alerts are higher level than floor.
1. Apartment - NE corner of south bedroom. Checks floor in that corner and floor of wardrobe - no bark. Checks on shelf - barks.
2. House - dining area. Checks floor near sideboard and front of sideboard - no bark. Checks on part of top of sideboard - no bark. Checks another part of top of sideboard - barks.
3. House - dining area. Checks floor all around table - no bark. Checks top of dining table - barks.


Offline pegasus

Re: Why didn't the dogs alert to any of Gerry's clothing?
« Reply #477 on: April 02, 2016, 05:33:17 PM »
http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/10VOLUMEXaPage2563.jpg
On the first shelf up is the laundry pile the size you would expect?

Offline misty

Re: Why didn't the dogs alert to any of Gerry's clothing?
« Reply #478 on: April 02, 2016, 10:10:50 PM »
http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/10VOLUMEXaPage2563.jpg
On the first shelf up is the laundry pile the size you would expect?

It's smaller than mine would have been but I've no idea how much washing KM did that week or how many changes of clothes were taken, worn & dirtied.

Offline pegasus

Re: Why didn't the dogs alert to any of Gerry's clothing?
« Reply #479 on: April 02, 2016, 10:26:22 PM »
It's smaller than mine would have been but I've no idea how much washing KM did that week or how many changes of clothes were taken, worn & dirtied.
And what is in the large case on the shelf above?