"Charity collectors" data

[Brietta]

If searchers in an Ohio case had said "nah don't bother looking it can't be wandering because I have a subjective opinion that a two-year old wouldn't shut a door behind her"  then you wouldn't be listening to this 911 call
http://bit.ly/1Vb6om0

As I recall one of the criticisms levelled at the Portuguese investigators was the prolonged period over which they continued to search for a child who woke and wandered.

Successful recoveries of the Ohio type do frequently happen.  Unfortunately as in Madeleine McCann's case that sometimes is not the happy ending we get.

[pegasus]

In Jan 2008 GM wrote a powerpoint presentation and sent it to police, it stated that BK had spoken to the charity which fitted that described by the collectors, and that the head of the charity had said "No collections are made, as this is illegal in Portugal".

Please can any forum poster living in Portugal confirm that all door-to-door charity collections are illegal?
Is it not possible for a charity to get a permit to do door to door collections?

[pegasus]

Door-to-door charity collections with a license are allowed in Portugal.
http://amovate.com/index.php/2013/06/charity-collectors-around-vale-da-telha/
"The procedure is that any Charity must first obtain a license to collect, from the Cãmara, indicating the days when they will be collecting.  The Cãmara then inform the GNR who are made aware of the details."

[pathfinder73]

If searchers in an Ohio case had said "nah don't bother looking it can't be wandering because I have a subjective opinion that a two-year old wouldn't shut a door behind her"  then you wouldn't be listening to this 911 call
http://bit.ly/1Vb6om0

Must be the fridge 

"Then, while his colleague remained in the hall, and the others were in the living room, the witness went through the entire apartment. He opened all the cupboards in the bedrooms, living room and kitchen and checked under the beds and inside the washing machine. He did not see the fridge." (Jose Roque He is an officer with the Lagos GNR and has worked for the Guarda for 21 years.)

Do you think he's an amateur after 21 years? If there was a body inside that tiny apartment it would be discovered. When you have a sighting of her towards the beach then she can't be in the apartment.

[pegasus]

Must be the fridge 

"Then, while his colleague remained in the hall, and the others were in the living room, the witness went through the entire apartment. He opened all the cupboards in the bedrooms, living room and kitchen and checked under the beds and inside the washing machine. He did not see the fridge." (Jose Roque He is an officer with the Lagos GNR and has worked for the Guarda for 21 years.)

Do you think he's an amateur after 21 years? If there was a body inside that tiny apartment it would be discovered. When you have a sighting of her towards the beach then she can't be in the apartment.

There are many cases Pathfinder where far more than one police officer has supposedly completely searched a residence and in fact they missed the child who was actually there. That GNR officer did not do a complete search. Complete means omitting no space. For example did he pull that sofa away from the wall to look behind it? He doesn't mention pulling the sofa away from the wall does he?

[pathfinder73]

The sofa was pushed up against the wall and the curtain was now trapped. Evidence from dog alerts was found under the tile where the sofa was now covering!  It couldn't be up against the wall with a child lying behind it.

[jassi]

Could a small child be hidden inside that type of sofa?

[faithlilly]

You are of the opinion that they are two entities.  It is possible, but until they are traced and eliminated we can't know for sure if they were part of the same team.
At this remove I doubt that will happen.

Whatever; I am absolutely unconvinced that Madeleine met with a fatal accident within the apartment - it is a theory which can only be sustained if an explanation can be found to explain the lack of a body let alone evidence that an accident occurred.

Why would her parents remove her body if as you think no entry was made by an intruder? [/list]

What evidence do you need to prove that an accident occurred ? Eddie alerted in the small garden in front of the apartment. Couldn't that be an indication that a body had lain there and whether you like it or not there have been cases where a body has been concealed in a bin. Now in the UK where we only have refuse collections every week or so police, doing a thorough search, would more than likely find the body but in PDL, where the bins were emptied early in the morning of the third before they had been searched thoroughly, there is every chance the body went to landfill.

[ShiningInLuz]

Door-to-door charity collections with a license are allowed in Portugal.
http://amovate.com/index.php/2013/06/charity-collectors-around-vale-da-telha/
"The procedure is that any Charity must first obtain a license to collect, from the Cãmara, indicating the days when they will be collecting.  The Cãmara then inform the GNR who are made aware of the details."

I think to be certain you would need to get a source closer to 2007. 

There have been many changes in other regulations in the time that we have been out here.

[Brietta]

What evidence do you need to prove that an accident occurred ?

Eddie alerted in the small garden in front of the apartment. Couldn't that be an indication that a body had lain there and whether you like it or not there have been cases where a body has been concealed in a bin. Now in the UK where we only have refuse collections every week or so police, doing a thorough search, would more than likely find the body but in PDL, where the bins were emptied early in the morning of the third before they had been searched thoroughly, there is every chance the body went to landfill.

"Eddie alerted in the small garden in front of the apartment."  Did he?

Or is there confusion between what is front and what is back?
[/list]

[Alfred R Jones]

What evidence do you need to prove that an accident occurred ? Eddie alerted in the small garden in front of the apartment. Couldn't that be an indication that a body had lain there and whether you like it or not there have been cases where a body has been concealed in a bin. Now in the UK where we only have refuse collections every week or so police, doing a thorough search, would more than likely find the body but in PDL, where the bins were emptied early in the morning of the third before they had been searched thoroughly, there is every chance the body went to landfill.

How many cases have there been of parents throwing away their child in a bin after they had an accident?  What happens to the rubbish when it gets to the landfill?[/list]

[Miss Taken Identity]

How many cases have there been of parents throwing away their child in a bin after they had an accident?  What happens to the rubbish when it gets to the landfill?[/list]

Well, I would have a guess at 'not many'....

[faithlilly]

"Eddie alerted in the small garden in front of the apartment."  Did he?

Or is there confusion between what is front and what is back?
[/list]

There is only one piece of greenery in the vicinity of 5a and that is under the railings just in front of the patio doors. Some unsecured patio doors, a plastic chair and an inquisitive child. A recipe for disaster I'm sure you'll agree.

[Brietta]

There is only one piece of greenery in the vicinity of 5a and that is under the railings just in front of the patio doors. Some unsecured patio doors, a plastic chair and an inquisitive child. A recipe for disaster I'm sure you'll agree.

I know that ... the apartment fronts onto a carpark. 

The back is the area which witnesses reported to have apparently been under surveillance during the McCann family occupancy by some individuals.

The small garden area at the back is where an occupant of 5A was approached by a charity collector whether bogus or otherwise on either Wednesday 25 or Thursday 26 April.
Which makes the next holidaymakers to occupy the apartment the McCann family

**snip
I was seated in the paved garden that faced the area of the pool, when I heard a male voice say "Hello". The voice came from the gate that leads to the road at the corner of the apartment and connects to the main reception area.
I stood up and I went to the man who asked me if I would be interested to contribute a donation to an orphanage in the interior mountains. I spoke with him and noticed that he had a badge with identification and that he had what seemed to me to be a book of receipts.
I thought that either he was genuine or a professional "cheat". It was then that I entered the apartment and asked Sal where was the money, and returned with a 10 euro note that I gave to him.  http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAUL_GORDON.htm

You posted ... "Eddie alerted in the small garden in front of the apartment." ... and there has been some confusion and much criticism of alleged inconsistencies in statements including what exactly is the front of the apartment and what is the back.  So it is important to get the terminology as 'pucca' as we can.[/list]

[faithlilly]

I know that ... the apartment fronts onto a carpark. 

The back is the area which witnesses reported to have apparently been under surveillance during the McCann family occupancy by some individuals.

The small garden area at the back is where an occupant of 5A was approached by a charity collector whether bogus or otherwise on either Wednesday 25 or Thursday 26 April.
Which makes the next holidaymakers to occupy the apartment the McCann family

**snip
I was seated in the paved garden that faced the area of the pool, when I heard a male voice say "Hello". The voice came from the gate that leads to the road at the corner of the apartment and connects to the main reception area.
I stood up and I went to the man who asked me if I would be interested to contribute a donation to an orphanage in the interior mountains. I spoke with him and noticed that he had a badge with identification and that he had what seemed to me to be a book of receipts.
I thought that either he was genuine or a professional "cheat". It was then that I entered the apartment and asked Sal where was the money, and returned with a 10 euro note that I gave to him.  http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAUL_GORDON.htm

You posted ... "Eddie alerted in the small garden in front of the apartment." ... and there has been some confusion and much criticism of alleged inconsistencies in statements including what exactly is the front of the apartment and what is the back.  So it is important to get the terminology as 'pucca' as we can.[/list]

Indeed.

Now do you agree that Eddie's alert in the patch of greenery just below the patio doors could be indicative of an accident having happened ?