Jeremy Bamber - The case in a nutshell.

[Holly Goodhead]

Someone firing at someone on the stairs would result in the ejection port being to the right towards Sheila's room not near the master bedroom.  The shot on the transition strip was from shooting June.

The casings stuck in the corner on the landing was transferred from the kitchen.

We've covered this previously Scipio.  You have your views and I have mine.  My scenario is entirely plausible in terms of trajectory of shots, blood staining and and ejection port/casings. 

My scenario does not rely upon the unlikely theory of an officer carrying a spent casing under his boot from the kitchen to the landing and two casings morping into an A and a B with the same exhibit number with the exhibit bag split open and resealed!

I've attached my diagram again for you to hone your spatial reasoning skills on    Don't even go there!  I've already had intellectual property rights slapped on it 

[scipio_usmc]

We've covered this previously Scipio.  You have your views and I have mine.  My scenario is entirely plausible in terms of trajectory of shots, blood staining and and ejection port/casings. 

My scenario does not rely upon the unlikely theory of an officer carrying a spent casing under his boot from the kitchen to the landing and two casings morping into an A and a B with the same exhibit number with the exhibit bag split open and resealed!

I've attached my diagram again for you to hone your spatial reasoning skills on    Don't even go there!  I've already had intellectual property rights slapped on it 

Your diagram just confirms what I said about you ignoring the evidence and instead making up things without regard to the evidence to make up things to pretend Nevill was shot outside the bedroom.  I already explained to you NUMEROUS times what is wrong with your claims.

First and foremost in your diagram Nevill's RIGHT side is facing the master bedroom as he walks up the stairs. You feature the shooter firing from the bedroom at his right side. Nevill was shot in his left side not right. The bullet hit his left side of his jaw and traveled to the right.  The bullet that hit his lip hit the left side and traveled to the right. Many times I have told you that in order for Nevill to be shot while walking up the stairs the shooter would have to be to his left not his right which means right by Sheila's door. The railing would obscure the shot and I am not positive the trajectory even could be achieved perfectly from there but if you are going to speculate that Nevill was shot while walking up the stairs that is the only location even remotely plausible where the killer could fire from. The casings in that event would go down the stairs.  This alone refutes your speculation completely.  It is impossible for Nevill to have been shot in the left side from the master bedroom while walking up the stairs.

I could stop here but if he had been shot from the right side instead of left there still would be problems with your claims. There still would be problems targeting someone on the stairs from the bedroom because of the angle. Moreover, you want to pretend the casings simply dropped out of the weapon onto the floor near the door. That's not what would happen. If the gun were inside the room as far as you pretend they would bounce off the wall into the corner near the chair. If the gun were protruding or angled sufficiently they would eject into the hall towards Sheila's door. But there is no need to even deal with this since it is not possible to target the left side of someone walking up the stairs from the master bedroom.

If you still can't get it without seeing an illustration then here:



The casing associated with these 2 shots were found in the master bedroom in the location where they would be expected if the killer were at the foot of the bed shooting at Nevill's left side as he sat on the bed trying to get up/was getting up.

As for the graze wound, it is impossible for that to have been delivered while he was walking up or down the stairs. Someone who ran into the hall as Nevill was going down the stairs would see his back. The graze wound was fired to Nevill's left side.  The killer was facing Nevill's left side when the shot was fired. The casing associated with such shot was found in the bedroom as was the bullet that grazed him.  The wall was to Nevill's left side as he was walking down the stairs so the only way the killer could shoot him on the stairs would be through the wall. The same holds true for the shot to his shoulder. It was to his left side.   His left shoulder would be obscured by the wall.   

Someone shooting from the hall as he is walking down the stairs would target Nevill from behind not from the side. Moreover, the casings would shoot down the right side of the stairs.

Even if he got the the mid landing and began to turn to go down the rest of the stairs his right ride not his left would be exposed. This image illustrates such quite clearly:



Your theory holds no water at all.  All 4 casings were found in the bedroom where they would be expected to be if Nevill had been shot while on his side of the bed. The bullet that grazed Nevill was found in the bedroom not the hall.  The trajectory of the shots is possible to achieve with Nevill on his side of the room but impossible to achieve while he was on the stairs and the killer where you claim.




 

[Holly Goodhead]

Your diagram just confirms what I said about you ignoring the evidence and instead making up things without regard to the evidence to make up things to pretend Nevill was shot outside the bedroom.  I already explained to you NUMEROUS times what is wrong with your claims.

First and foremost in your diagram Nevill's RIGHT side is facing the master bedroom as he walks up the stairs. You feature the shooter firing from the bedroom at his right side. Nevill was shot in his left side not right. The bullet hit his left side of his jaw and traveled to the right.  The bullet that hit his lip hit the left side and traveled to the right. Many times I have told you that in order for Nevill to be shot while walking up the stairs the shooter would have to be to his left not his right which means right by Sheila's door. The railing would obscure the shot and I am not positive the trajectory even could be achieved perfectly from there but if you are going to speculate that Nevill was shot while walking up the stairs that is the only location even remotely plausible where the killer could fire from. The casings in that event would go down the stairs.  This alone refutes your speculation completely.  It is impossible for Nevill to have been shot in the left side from the master bedroom while walking up the stairs.

I could stop here but if he had been shot from the right side instead of left there still would be problems with your claims. There still would be problems targeting someone on the stairs from the bedroom because of the angle. Moreover, you want to pretend the casings simply dropped out of the weapon onto the floor near the door. That's not what would happen. If the gun were inside the room as far as you pretend they would bounce off the wall into the corner near the chair. If the gun were protruding or angled sufficiently they would eject into the hall towards Sheila's door. But there is no need to even deal with this since it is not possible to target the left side of someone walking up the stairs from the master bedroom.

If you still can't get it without seeing an illustration then here:



The casing associated with these 2 shots were found in the master bedroom in the location where they would be expected if the killer were at the foot of the bed shooting at Nevill's left side as he sat on the bed trying to get up/was getting up.

As for the graze wound, it is impossible for that to have been delivered while he was walking up or down the stairs. Someone who ran into the hall as Nevill was going down the stairs would see his back. The graze wound was fired to Nevill's left side.  The killer was facing Nevill's left side when the shot was fired. The casing associated with such shot was found in the bedroom as was the bullet that grazed him.  The wall was to Nevill's left side as he was walking down the stairs so the only way the killer could shoot him on the stairs would be through the wall. The same holds true for the shot to his shoulder. It was to his left side.   His left shoulder would be obscured by the wall.   

Someone shooting from the hall as he is walking down the stairs would target Nevill from behind not from the side. Moreover, the casings would shoot down the right side of the stairs.

Even if he got the the mid landing and began to turn to go down the rest of the stairs his right ride not his left would be exposed. This image illustrates such quite clearly:



Your theory holds no water at all.  All 4 casings were found in the bedroom where they would be expected to be if Nevill had been shot while on his side of the bed. The bullet that grazed Nevill was found in the bedroom not the hall.  The trajectory of the shots is possible to achieve with Nevill on his side of the room but impossible to achieve while he was on the stairs and the killer where you claim.

Thank you for going to so much trouble but I'm sticking with my copyrighted diagrams 

NB's facial shots were not to the left or right they were face on.  It's entirely feasible the perp was stood in the entrance of the main bedroom and the ejection port ejected the casings around the right angle of the walls with NB on the stairs preceding the entrance to the main bedroom.  (Two facial shots)

It's then entirely feasible NB turned and was facing down the stairs with the perp behind and the ejection port ejejcted casings onto the transition strip of the main bedroom and against the landing wall. (Shoulder and elbow shot).

One needs to be able to rotate images in the minds eye!

[scipio_usmc]

Thank you for going to so much trouble but I'm sticking with my copyrighted diagrams 

NB's facial shots were not to the left or right they were face on.  It's entirely feasible the perp was stood in the entrance of the main bedroom and the ejection port ejected the casings around the right angle of the walls with NB on the stairs preceding the entrance to the main bedroom.  (Two facial shots)

It's then entirely feasible NB turned and was facing down the stairs with the perp behind and the ejection port ejejcted casings onto the transition strip of the main bedroom and against the landing wall. (Shoulder and elbow shot).

One needs to be able to rotate images in the minds eye!

Your claims about the casings are not in the least bit feasible.   You want to pretend that casings went opposite of where they actually would to keep your theory alive but it is pointless.

Your claims about his wounds are completely wrong. He was not shot in the lip with the killer firing directly at his face.  The shots angled from left to right. An oblique wound to the lip means it did not hit the lip from forward but rather from the side. The shot angled left to right with the bullet lodging. The only way that trajectory can be achieved is with the killer being to Nevill's left side not directly in front.

The trajectory of the bullet that entered Nevill's jaw likewise was from left to right. It entered at the angle of his mandible.  This is what the angle of the mandible is another word for the side of the mandible. 

This diagram shows the trajectories



If he had been shot from the front instead of the left profile the bullet wound would have been to the front of his jaw instead of side. The bullet would have gone in the front and traveled to the back of his neck not have gone across he neck left to right.

You ignore the evidence so you can make things up.  This renders your speculations completely wrong.

[Holly Goodhead]

Your claims about the casings are not in the least bit feasible.   You want to pretend that casings went opposite of where they actually would to keep your theory alive but it is pointless.

Your claims about his wounds are completely wrong. He was not shot in the lip with the killer firing directly at his face.  The shots angled from left to right. An oblique wound to the lip means it did not hit the lip from forward but rather from the side. The shot angled left to right with the bullet lodging. The only way that trajectory can be achieved is with the killer being to Nevill's left side not directly in front.

The trajectory of the bullet that entered Nevill's jaw likewise was from left to right. It entered at the angle of his mandible.  This is what the angle of the mandible is another word for the side of the mandible. 

This diagram shows the trajectories



If he had been shot from the front instead of the left profile the bullet wound would have been to the front of his jaw instead of side. The bullet would have gone in the front and traveled to the back of his neck not have gone across he neck left to right.

You ignore the evidence so you can make things up.  This renders your speculations completely wrong.

You need to understand directional terms in terms of human anatomy.  Left and right does not mean the two gunshot wounds NB sustained entered via the left side of his face.  It means to the left side of his face ie under his left eye and left nostril as opposed to under his right eye and right nostril.  See slides 17 and 19 - 21 incl.:

http://www.slideshare.net/linoby/introduction-to-human-anatomy

From Dr V's autopsy:

5.  Oblique entry wound on the left side of the lower lip measuring 5/16".

6. Entry wound measuring in 5/16", situated on the left lower jaw half way between the point of the chin and the angle of the jaw.  The tracks of the above two wounds were downwards.  The bullet from wound 5 was found in cervical vertabra.  Cross fractures and disruptive injuries were found in the left side of the jaw and nearby teeth associated with these bullets.  In addition there was aslo associated soft tissue injury to laryngeal structures on the left side as well as the left sulmandibular gland.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?PHPSESSID=86fk5opg57kscmj98ec7uet285&action=dlattach;topic=199.0;attach=676

Any lingering doubts you may have can be clarified by Dr V's autopsy report above.  You can trace (and no I'm not doing it for you) with your finger your lower left jaw from the angle of your jaw to the point of your chin.  Mid point is the point NB sustained one of the gunshot wounds.  If the bullet entered sideways it would not have been as serious as it was.  It was serious as it was face on and caused damage to the areas highlighted in bold above.  Diagrams as follows:

Scipio sometimes I think you just like arguing with me for the hell of it.  I'm not going round in circles with you on this.  If you want to belive the facial shots entered sideways then that's fine by my me.

[Holly Goodhead]

Laryngeal structures (Larynx)

[Holly Goodhead]

Sulmandibular gland (salivary glands)

[Holly Goodhead]

Cervical Vertabrae

[Myster]

We've covered this previously Scipio.  You have your views and I have mine.  My scenario is entirely plausible in terms of trajectory of shots, blood staining and and ejection port/casings. 

My scenario does not rely upon the unlikely theory of an officer carrying a spent casing under his boot from the kitchen to the landing and two casings morping into an A and a B with the same exhibit number with the exhibit bag split open and resealed!

I've attached my diagram again for you to hone your spatial reasoning skills on    Don't even go there!  I've already had intellectual property rights slapped on it 

There were only three casings found in the kitchen. Have you dismissed the theory that the fourth could have been stovepipe-jammed and JB only released it when he reached the top of the stairs?

[scipio_usmc]

You need to understand directional terms in terms of human anatomy.  Left and right does not mean the two gunshot wounds NB sustained entered via the left side of his face.  It means to the left side of his face ie under his left eye and left nostril as opposed to under his right eye and right nostril.  See slides 17 and 19 - 21 incl.:

http://www.slideshare.net/linoby/introduction-to-human-anatomy

From Dr V's autopsy:

5.  Oblique entry wound on the left side of the lower lip measuring 5/16".

6. Entry wound measuring in 5/16", situated on the left lower jaw half way between the point of the chin and the angle of the jaw.  The tracks of the above two wounds were downwards.  The bullet from wound 5 was found in cervical vertabra.  Cross fractures and disruptive injuries were found in the left side of the jaw and nearby teeth associated with these bullets.  In addition there was aslo associated soft tissue injury to laryngeal structures on the left side as well as the left sulmandibular gland.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?PHPSESSID=86fk5opg57kscmj98ec7uet285&action=dlattach;topic=199.0;attach=676

Any lingering doubts you may have can be clarified by Dr V's autopsy report above.  You can trace (and no I'm not doing it for you) with your finger your lower left jaw from the angle of your jaw to the point of your chin.  Mid point is the point NB sustained one of the gunshot wounds.  If the bullet entered sideways it would not have been as serious as it was.  It was serious as it was face on and caused damage to the areas highlighted in bold above.  Diagrams as follows:

Scipio sometimes I think you just like arguing with me for the hell of it.  I'm not going round in circles with you on this.  If you want to belive the facial shots entered sideways then that's fine by my me.

I argue with you because you are wrong I care about accuracy while you do not.  You change facts to suit what you want to pretend.

Fact: Someone walking up the stairs at WHF would have the right side of their body facing the master bedroom. 

Fact: It is impossible for someone inside the master bedroom at WHF to target the left side of someone who is on the stairs

Fact: The ejection port is on the right side of the weapon not the left

These simply facts render your claims absurd and impossible.

Vanezis describes where the entry wounds were and where the bullets went including where they were removed from.  I traced the wounds on such basis from entry wound to where the bullets were found. 

The trajectory was left to right. Your claim he simply meant the wounds were under the left side of his eye moving front to back are patently wrong. You flipped things on their head which is what you always do.  The first 2 drawings show the wounds most accurately.  You ignore those and pretend the last is the most accurate and that the shots came from the front though the path the bullets took was left to right.  If Nevill's head were a globe and the back of his head is what side we are looking at (so that the left side of his head is also to our left) then the killer would have been Northwest. In analog clock terms the killer was between 9:30 and 10:30.

The graze wound was fired with the killer around 9 o'clock aka due West.  The shoulder wound was fired 8-9 o'clock aka Southwest. The common denominator is all were fired from the west (left).  None of the shots were fired from due North or due south.  None were fired with the killer facing Nevill head on.

If the shot in the jaw simply traveled from the jaw front to back and down then it would have exited through his chin. The red dot is the jaw wound and line shows it's path to reach the vertebra. It traveled left to right passing through the throat and into the vertebra.

He said the lip wound was oblique that means angled. It was angled left to right not a head on shot. The bullet went left to right into the throat and then vertebra. A straight shot into the left tip of the lip would not be oblique and wound not result in the bullet going into the throat.   

While I care about facts you care about your agenda.  Your agenda causes you to completely ignore that the shell casing on the landing was from the kitchen.  You pretend it was from shooting Nevill on the steps though there is no way to achieve any of the angles in which Nevill was shot with him being on the stairs indeed all one need know is that Nevill's injuries were to the left side and the bedroom was to his right side in order to known it is not possible.

Even if Nevill's wounds had been straight on as you claim that would require a killer to be in the hall facing the stairs in order to be able to shoot his left side from straight on, such cannot be accomplished from inside the bedroom.  The shell casing though in that instance would shoot to the right down the bottom of the stairs not to the left inside the bedroom or to the left corner of the landing.   

Your agenda causes you to pretend it is possible to shoot the left side of someone from a room facing the right of the target.  Your agenda causes you to pretend that shells ejected from the left side of the weapon instead of right so you can pretend that casing on the steps got there from shooting at Nevill as he was on the stairs and to pretend casings in the bedroom got there from shooting at him as he was on the stairs.  Your bias causes you to  totally ignore the fact that the bullet that grazed Nevill was in the bedroom.

You bias causes you to say there would have to be a substantial amount of blood in the bedroom if he had been shot there and pretending that no blood of his was there for sure though they failed to test most of the blood in the bedroom so his blood may have been there, but you have no problem with there being no blood found on the steps and say he was shot there despite no blood.  You are wildly inconsistent and driven by an agenda as opposed to facing evidence and following the evidence where it leads.

Because you refuse to follow the evidence where it leads and distort it to suit your agenda that is why I argue with you.

Your claim that Nevill's killer was directly in front of him and shot him head on in the lip and jaw is false. Since it is false that is why I argue with you.  His killer was to his left.  His killer was forward and to his left and that is how the bullet entered his left lip at an oblique angle instead of straight then traveled left to right to his neck instead of the bullet going straight and exited the left side of his chin/neck.

The bullet to his jaw didn't go straight through his chin like it would have if he was shot as you claim, it went left to right going through his throat.  The entrance wounds of both of these shot were to the left of his throat and vertebra and yet they traveled to his throat and vertebra.  Only a left to right trajectory enables them to enter where they did and yet end up where they did.

A three dimensional drawing of the trajectories would show them going down and to the left. That places the killer "Northwest".

A perfect example of your inconsistency is that you tell us that the killer fired head on at Nevill and yet the scenario you posited doesn't feature the killer head on. In your scenario of the shooter in the bedroom you have the killer "Northeast" of Nevill as he is on the stairs.  That would result in the shots coming to Nevill's right side though not left.  Surely you know the difference between left and right.  So this renders your claims impossible.   That is why I refute your claims- because they are impossible and clearly wrong.     

At the end of the day the evidence conclusively establishes the killer was Nevill's Northwest when firing the lip and jaw shots yet you position the killer to Nevill's Northeast.  You do so not because the evidence supports this- it in fact refutes such.  You do it because you decided to make up a scenario to make it seem plausible that Sheila did the shootings and you choose to ignore that the evidence refutes your scenario and decided to simply pretend the evidence supports it.

If you actually believed that the evidence suggests Nevill was shot in the face while on the stairs then you would be arguing he was shot from near Sheila's bedroom door.   That is the only place where Nevill could be shot from the left while walking up the stairs.  Your proposed location for the killer is the yellow square which has the killer to Nevill's right.  Inspite of your extreme bias you should comprehend that it is impossible to target Nevill's left side from such location it can only be targeted from the doorway of Sheila's bedroom.



Instead of making up your narrative of what happened based on the evidence you decided to ignore it and siply make up a narrative that would enable Nevill to phone Jeremy even though the evidence refutes it and to simply pretend the evidence supports it.

The location of the casings and the location of the bullet that grazed Nevill establish he was shot in the master bedroom by a shooter located in the master bedroom. This prevents Nevill from being able to call Jeremy and you want to pretend Jeremy received such a call and is innocent so refuse to accept the evidence and simply make up things to pretend what we know happened didn't.

I don't like running with impossible bogus pretense that is why I challenge you.   

[scipio_usmc]

Cervical Vertabrae

Note how the vertebra and voincebox are in the center.  Both entrance wounds were to the left of these structures.  The only way for a bullet to travel from the entrance wound to these structures is if the lpath was not straight back but rather a left to right motion.

[ moderated ]

[david1819]

I argue with you because you are wrong I care about accuracy while you do not.  You change facts to suit what you want to pretend.

Fact: Someone walking up the stairs at WHF would have the right side of their body facing the master bedroom. 

Fact: It is impossible for someone inside the master bedroom at WHF to target the left side of someone who is on the stairs

Fact: The ejection port is on the right side of the weapon not the left

These simply facts render your claims absurd and impossible.

I don't agree with this.

Neville comes up the stairs, receives the first two shots to the jaw, then retreats back down the stairs first by revolving his body to the other direction. During this scenario Neville exposes all necessary parts of his body for the killer to shoot him in the locations he was shot at.

Anschutz 525 Ejects the cases forward, The absence of shell casings and blood on nevills side of the bed combined with the fact the shells are close to the door and hall, is perfectly consistent with Holly's scenario.

https://youtu.be/Bgz0lqGVouo?t=20s

[puglove]

I don't agree with this.

Neville comes up the stairs, receives the first two shots to the jaw, then retreats back down the stairs first by revolving his body to the other direction. During this scenario Neville exposes all necessary parts of his body for the killer to shoot him in the locations he was shot at.

Anschutz 525 Ejects the cases forward, The absence of shell casings and blood on nevills side of the bed combined with the fact the shells are close to the door and hall, is perfectly consistent with Holly's scenario.

https://youtu.be/Bgz0lqGVouo?t=20s

David, did you nick Caro's research?

Massive tut, if you did. And another huge tut if you told Nelly about it.

[puglove]

Nelly, Mike and lookout = Wilson, Keppel and Betty.

Sad face, thumbs down, tears, shakey head.

[puglove]

Nelly is ngb.

I hope you didn't steal anything. Sorry that you got picked on.

Good luck with your discovery.