The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.

[Benice]

All of that doesn'the add up to anything as they is no evidence of any third party in the apartment.

You appear to have forgotten the unidentified partial fingerprints and unidentified hairs that were recovered from the scene.

While they remain unidentified then it cannot be claimed as a 'fact'  that there was no evidence of any third party in 5A.    The 'fact'  is - we don't know.

[stephen25000]

You appear to have forgotten the unidentified partial fingerprints and unidentified hairs that were recovered from the scene.

While they remain unidentified then it cannot be claimed as a 'fact'  that there was no evidence of any third party in 5A.    The 'fact'  is - we don't know.

I have forgotten nothing.

Partial fingerprints/hairs do not mean there was a thirds party in the apartment that night, and it is disingenuous of you to imply it does.

Again, you are clutching at straws.

[Benice]

I have forgotten nothing.

Partial fingerprints/hairs do not mean there was a thirds party in the apartment that night, and it is disingenuous of you to imply it does.

Again, you are clutching at straws.

Are you claiming that the unidentified partial fingerprints and unidentified hairs recovered from the crime scene prove that no third party was ever in 5A?  Surely not.

[stephen25000]

Are you claiming that the unidentified partial fingerprints and unidentified hairs recovered from the crime scene prove that no third party was ever in 5A?  Surely not.

Did I say that ?

You're still clutching at straws.

Do you really think anything you type will solve the case benice ?

[faithlilly]

Are you claiming that the unidentified partial fingerprints and unidentified hairs recovered from the crime scene prove that no third party was ever in 5A?  Surely not.

It was a holiday apartment Benice. I think it would be more unusual if there wasn't any unidentified fingerprints and hair.

[Benice]

It was a holiday apartment Benice. I think it would be more unusual if there wasn't any unidentified fingerprints and hair.

This is true Faith -  but the apartments underwent a thorough clean-up between visitors - so I wouldn't expect there to be too many fingerprints or hairs around which belonged to previous tenants.

It is a fact that unidentified partial fingerprints and hairs form part of the evidence collected by the PJ forensic team. While they remain unidentified then IMO it's incorrect to claim that no evidence exists that a third party was in 5A - because we just don't know.

[faithlilly]

This is true Faith -  but the apartments underwent a thorough clean-up between visitors - so I wouldn't expect there to be too many fingerprints or hairs around which belonged to previous tenants.

It is a fact that unidentified partial fingerprints and hairs form part of the evidence collected by the PJ forensic team. While they remain unidentified then IMO it's incorrect to claim that no evidence exists that a third party was in 5A - because we just don't know.

Wasn't some DNA of a previous child occupant found on some bedding in 5a ? That being the case it is ridiculous to claim that there wouldn't be fingerprints and hairs which had similarly been missed even during a thorough clean-up. And if it's true that SY are following the botched burglary lead with the three already named arguidos as prime suspects surely those 'unidentified partial fingerprints and hairs' would have ruled them either in or out. Or are we now talking a botched burglary carried out by a vast team of burglars ?

[John]

For info:

A request has been made for a 'LIKE'  button to be added to posts so I am happy to oblige.  'LIKE' statistics can be viewed from the header bar atop each page.

Should this function cause difficulties or be abused I will remove it.


John

[slartibartfast]

For info:

A request has been made for a 'LIKE'  button to be added to posts so I am happy to oblige.  'LIKE' statistics can be viewed from the header bar atop each page.

Should this function cause difficulties or be abused I will remove it.


John

Do we recommend posters use it instead of the "I agree" posts?

[John]

Wasn't some DNA of a previous child occupant found on some bedding in 5a ? That being the case it is ridiculous to claim that there wouldn't be fingerprints and hairs which had similarly been missed even during a thorough clean-up. And if it's true that SY are following the botched burglary lead with the three already named arguidos as prime suspects surely those 'unidentified partial fingerprints and hairs' would have ruled them either in or out. Or are we now talking a botched burglary carried out by a vast team of burglars ?

This has already been mentioned but the thing which amazes me in respect of the claim that three burglars were responsible for Madeleine's abduction is, how the heck could they have gone unnoticed given the number of people who were out and about that evening who walked past 5a?

[John]

Do we recommend posters use it instead of the "I agree" posts?

Not necessarily, you can like a post without agreeing with it.

[Benice]

This has already been mentioned but the thing which amazes me in respect of the claim that three burglars were responsible for Madeleine's abduction is, how the heck could they have gone unnoticed given the number of people who were out and about that evening who walked past 5a?

Has  it ever been ruled out that the empty apartment next door but one to 5A could have been used by perpetrators?  It seems an ideal place to me for reconnoitre purposes - both across the carpark and across the pool to the tapas area - and is a mere couple of  seconds walk away from 5A?

[ShiningInLuz]

Wasn't some DNA of a previous child occupant found on some bedding in 5a?

That being the case it is ridiculous to claim that there wouldn't be fingerprints and hairs which had similarly been missed even during a thorough clean-up. And if it's true that SY are following the botched burglary lead with the three already named arguidos as prime suspects surely those 'unidentified partial fingerprints and hairs' would have ruled them either in or out. Or are we now talking a botched burglary carried out by a vast team of burglars ?

Answer to the bit I have put in bold.  Yes.  It started out as a potential semen stain on the cover of the bed by the window, then it got matched to a very young previous male occupant, and it was reclassified as saliva.

The idea that the cleaners, when one renter left and another moved in, did such a brill job that all trace of those who had been in 5A before were now gone, does not stack up.  IMO.

One issue with the forensics in 5A is simply working out who was permitted to be inside 5A.  The driver who took the McCanns from the OC reception to block 5?  Did he help with the luggage?  The repairmen, re shutter and washing machine.  The cleaner, and the friend who helped her clean.

It's like a dog's dinner before you start.

I BELIEVE, as arguidos, the 3 were entitled not to give DNA, unless specifically ordered to do so by a judge.  However, my understanding of the laws of Portugal is such that, unless I had 'done it', I would offer my DNA.  Basically, Portugal does not allow DNA in one case to be used in a second case, until a guilty verdict has been handed down in the first case.

So I could burgle to my heart's content, leaving my DNA everywhere.  And I could give my DNA in the Madeleine case.  And as long as I am not found guilty in the Madeleine case, the fact that my DNA matches the burglaries cannot be used.

And again I believe, there is a 'right to forget' both about crimes committed and DNA.  It is not like the UK where once your DNA goes into the system, it stays there for eternity.

I wish I was clearer on the laws of Portugal.  The entry in the PJ Files with the hand written notes on crimes committed seems very odd to me.

[Carana]

Answer to the bit I have put in bold.  Yes.  It started out as a potential semen stain on the cover of the bed by the window, then it got matched to a very young previous male occupant, and it was reclassified as saliva.

The idea that the cleaners, when one renter left and another moved in, did such a brill job that all trace of those who had been in 5A before were now gone, does not stack up.  IMO.

One issue with the forensics in 5A is simply working out who was permitted to be inside 5A.  The driver who took the McCanns from the OC reception to block 5?  Did he help with the luggage?  The repairmen, re shutter and washing machine.  The cleaner, and the friend who helped her clean.

It's like a dog's dinner before you start.

I BELIEVE, as arguidos, the 3 were entitled not to give DNA, unless specifically ordered to do so by a judge.  However, my understanding of the laws of Portugal is such that, unless I had 'done it', I would offer my DNA.  Basically, Portugal does not allow DNA in one case to be used in a second case, until a guilty verdict has been handed down in the first case.

So I could burgle to my heart's content, leaving my DNA everywhere.  And I could give my DNA in the Madeleine case.  And as long as I am not found guilty in the Madeleine case, the fact that my DNA matches the burglaries cannot be used.

And again I believe, there is a 'right to forget' both about crimes committed and DNA.  It is not like the UK where once your DNA goes into the system, it stays there for eternity.

I wish I was clearer on the laws of Portugal.  The entry in the PJ Files with the hand written notes on crimes committed seems very odd to me.

Not quite sure what you mean, SIL.

Loads of people voluntarily gave their DNA.

[jassi]

Not quite sure what you mean, SIL.

Loads of people voluntarily gave their DNA.

Names?