Author Topic: The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.  (Read 287803 times)

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Offline Mr Gray

Yet the forensic lab said they wish the bedding had been kept for them to examine,  I will try and find the quote.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-494203/Madeleine-How-police-ruined-forensic-evidence-bedroom.html

For those who say there was no evidence of an abducor remember how poor the forensic examination was

Offline G-Unit

Psychologically, as proven by statements in the files, many people incorrectly assume that if the shutter is down, it can't be raised from outside, and there is no need to lock the window.
Doctors and other professionals made this assumption, therefore cleaners would also.

Why do you assume that because doctors and other professionals assume something therefore cleaners would too? It sounds logical but it isn't.
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Offline pathfinder73

Before they went out, neither GM nor KM locked that window.
Same in 5H, before they went out those tourists didn't lock their windows either - and some of them were definitely not locked.

The cleaner in the apartment on WED. If she cleaned the window (as Amaral claimed) she would have locked it if not secure.

"On the window, there were no signs of a break-in or of gloves. It had been cleaned the day before, May 2nd, by an Ocean Club employee, and the only fingerprints found were Kate's." Chapter 18 Truth of the Lie
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 10:10:54 AM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Lace

I did not say it was not possible.
I am pointing out that a planned targeted snatch requires a lot of planning and is not as easy as some would have us believe; more to the point not many would know how to go about it. That is why I keep rabbiting on about "even give me the first steps". I have been asking for this on this forum for over a year and have yet to hear a likely tale, belay that not even hear a tale but reasons not to give one. Mostly it is ducked or greeted with sneers. C'est la vie.
I don't usually do "there I wuz" stories but perhaps this helps explain my taking it with a pinch of salt: part of what I do involves sending groups of disparate sometimes socially dysfunctional people all over the world to perform specific tasks in specific places.

The array of people trotted out as being potentially in the frame for this job are sure dysfunctional but looking at the detail they are drawing too much attention to themselves and are too slapdash. So are they a blind while the real team gets in ? How do you link in smelly bin man or is he a diversion ? How did dead tractor man and pig farmer man fit into the picture? what about fag butt men and chuggers? to name but a few. Christ you could start a war with fewer people.
But the big question is, if this were a planned snatch by an outfit which had money (it had to have if the original analysis was correct) then why pick Luz as the site ?

Luz was a quiet area frequented with British children,   if they wanted a British child then what better place?   Madeleine fitted the requirements,  also she was in an apartment alone with her siblings.   Not that I think she wouldn't have been taken if the parents had been asleep in their beds,  if they had a key then they could have entered whether the parents were there or not.  Madeleine alone just made it easier for them.    Two in my opinion would have been needed for the abduction,   the others were either just look outs or had been searching for a child that matched the requirements.

Offline G-Unit

For those who say there was no evidence of an abducor remember how poor the forensic examination was

Yes.We often hear the police say 'We knew what happened as soon as we realised there was no evidence to support it'
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Offline Benice

Luz was a quiet area frequented with British children,   if they wanted a British child then what better place?   Madeleine fitted the requirements,  also she was in an apartment alone with her siblings.   Not that I think she wouldn't have been taken if the parents had been asleep in their beds,  if they had a key then they could have entered whether the parents were there or not.  Madeleine alone just made it easier for them.    Two in my opinion would have been needed for the abduction,   the others were either just look outs or had been searching for a child that matched the requirements.

The fact that in PT when a child goes missing  'NO MEDIA' is the PJ rule - would be seen as a massive advantage to any would-be abductor(s) imo.

The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline pathfinder73

Luz was a quiet area frequented with British children,   if they wanted a British child then what better place?   Madeleine fitted the requirements,  also she was in an apartment alone with her siblings.   Not that I think she wouldn't have been taken if the parents had been asleep in their beds,  if they had a key then they could have entered whether the parents were there or not.  Madeleine alone just made it easier for them.    Two in my opinion would have been needed for the abduction,   the others were either just look outs or had been searching for a child that matched the requirements.

I think it's easier to target a child on her own than a room with 3. That's very risky. What would they do if all 3 started screaming? It's unbelievable like most of this case with no evidence to back it up. There's one lead left.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 10:28:26 AM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Brietta

http://youtu.be/46axwTbsKCo?t=4m47s
The cleaner of 5A looks completely honest IMO.

Of interest is that it seems the McCanns used the patio door to exit the apartment during the day, so they obviously felt relaxed and secure enough to do so.

The psychological effect of Madeleine's disappearance is also documented.  The cleaner, who did not know her, has been extremely traumatised and affected by what happened.
How much more so must that be for those who knew and loved Madeleine ... but who have had burden upon burden heaped unnecessarily on them by people who initially had no idea of the dark underbelly beneath the tranquil holiday village dependent on tourism for survival.

It is only very recently that the fact of burglaries happening in Luz has been accepted and recognised.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Alice Purjorick

Luz was a quiet area frequented with British children,   if they wanted a British child then what better place?   Madeleine fitted the requirements,  also she was in an apartment alone with her siblings.   Not that I think she wouldn't have been taken if the parents had been asleep in their beds,  if they had a key then they could have entered whether the parents were there or not.  Madeleine alone just made it easier for them.    Two in my opinion would have been needed for the abduction,   the others were either just look outs or had been searching for a child that matched the requirements.

If you must do it in Portugal then Tavira.
It has a British tourist itinerant population and is a bloody sight closer to the border by sea then up the river or over the bridge.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline G-Unit

Of interest is that it seems the McCanns used the patio door to exit the apartment during the day, so they obviously felt relaxed and secure enough to do so.

The psychological effect of Madeleine's disappearance is also documented.  The cleaner, who did not know her, has been extremely traumatised and affected by what happened.
How much more so must that be for those who knew and loved Madeleine ... but who have had burden upon burden heaped unnecessarily on them by people who initially had no idea of the dark underbelly beneath the tranquil holiday village dependent on tourism for survival.

It is only very recently that the fact of burglaries happening in Luz has been accepted and recognised.

They left by the front door, which he locked with the key, (Saturday)
the deponent having entered the apartment by the main door, which was locked, (Sunday)
Following this they returned to the apartment, the deponent opened the main door with his key and, then, the rear door through which KATE and the children entered. (Sunday)
Thursday, after breakfast, about 09h00, KATE and the children left by the rear door, he having left by the front door, which he locked with the key, having also closed and locked the rear door from the inside.
making his way to his apartment, entering by the front door, that was locked by key, when it was 09H40/09H45. (still Thursday)

Then it suddenly changes;

He remained at home for about 15 minutes, dressing in tennis clothes, left by the front door, that he did not lock.....
the deponent left by the front door and the rest of the family by the rear door that, once again, he shut and locked from the inside. As to the front door, he does not know exactly if he locked it.
 After 17H30 they went to the apartment, the deponent having entered by the main door, which he did not lock while he was inside the residence. KATE and the children entered by the rear door, after this had been opened from the inside by the deponent. (All Thursday)
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

Monday to Wednesday aren't mentioned, but door-locking featured heavily in the accounts of Saturday, Sunday and Thursday after breakfast. Only after that do we hear uncertainty about the front door lock; note the patio doors were locked even then. Cites for unlocked patio doors during the week would be helpful.
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Offline jassi

They left by the front door, which he locked with the key, (Saturday)
the deponent having entered the apartment by the main door, which was locked, (Sunday)
Following this they returned to the apartment, the deponent opened the main door with his key and, then, the rear door through which KATE and the children entered. (Sunday)
Thursday, after breakfast, about 09h00, KATE and the children left by the rear door, he having left by the front door, which he locked with the key, having also closed and locked the rear door from the inside.
making his way to his apartment, entering by the front door, that was locked by key, when it was 09H40/09H45. (still Thursday)

Then it suddenly changes;

He remained at home for about 15 minutes, dressing in tennis clothes, left by the front door, that he did not lock.....
the deponent left by the front door and the rest of the family by the rear door that, once again, he shut and locked from the inside. As to the front door, he does not know exactly if he locked it.
 After 17H30 they went to the apartment, the deponent having entered by the main door, which he did not lock while he was inside the residence. KATE and the children entered by the rear door, after this had been opened from the inside by the deponent. (All Thursday)
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

Monday to Wednesday aren't mentioned, but door-locking featured heavily in the accounts of Saturday, Sunday and Thursday after breakfast. Only after that do we hear uncertainty about the front door lock; note the patio doors were locked even then. Cites for unlocked patio doors during the week would be helpful.

That's broadly what I thought, but you put it so much better  8)--))
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

stephen25000

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They left by the front door, which he locked with the key, (Saturday)
the deponent having entered the apartment by the main door, which was locked, (Sunday)
Following this they returned to the apartment, the deponent opened the main door with his key and, then, the rear door through which KATE and the children entered. (Sunday)
Thursday, after breakfast, about 09h00, KATE and the children left by the rear door, he having left by the front door, which he locked with the key, having also closed and locked the rear door from the inside.
making his way to his apartment, entering by the front door, that was locked by key, when it was 09H40/09H45. (still Thursday)

Then it suddenly changes;

He remained at home for about 15 minutes, dressing in tennis clothes, left by the front door, that he did not lock.....
the deponent left by the front door and the rest of the family by the rear door that, once again, he shut and locked from the inside. As to the front door, he does not know exactly if he locked it.
 After 17H30 they went to the apartment, the deponent having entered by the main door, which he did not lock while he was inside the residence. KATE and the children entered by the rear door, after this had been opened from the inside by the deponent. (All Thursday)
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

Monday to Wednesday aren't mentioned, but door-locking featured heavily in the accounts of Saturday, Sunday and Thursday after breakfast. Only after that do we hear uncertainty about the front door lock; note the patio doors were locked even then. Cites for unlocked patio doors during the week would be helpful.

An excellent precis of the mccanns accounts.

Offline Mr Gray

They left by the front door, which he locked with the key, (Saturday)
the deponent having entered the apartment by the main door, which was locked, (Sunday)
Following this they returned to the apartment, the deponent opened the main door with his key and, then, the rear door through which KATE and the children entered. (Sunday)
Thursday, after breakfast, about 09h00, KATE and the children left by the rear door, he having left by the front door, which he locked with the key, having also closed and locked the rear door from the inside.
making his way to his apartment, entering by the front door, that was locked by key, when it was 09H40/09H45. (still Thursday)

Then it suddenly changes;

He remained at home for about 15 minutes, dressing in tennis clothes, left by the front door, that he did not lock.....
the deponent left by the front door and the rest of the family by the rear door that, once again, he shut and locked from the inside. As to the front door, he does not know exactly if he locked it.
 After 17H30 they went to the apartment, the deponent having entered by the main door, which he did not lock while he was inside the residence. KATE and the children entered by the rear door, after this had been opened from the inside by the deponent. (All Thursday)
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

Monday to Wednesday aren't mentioned, but door-locking featured heavily in the accounts of Saturday, Sunday and Thursday after breakfast. Only after that do we hear uncertainty about the front door lock; note the patio doors were locked even then. Cites for unlocked patio doors during the week would be helpful.

It would be very interesting to know what they actually said

Offline G-Unit

It would be very interesting to know what they actually said

It's not what Brietta posted unless she has other sources.
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Offline ShiningInLuz

If you must do it in Portugal then Tavira.
It has a British tourist itinerant population and is a bloody sight closer to the border by sea then up the river or over the bridge.
Whether the McCanns did it or someone else did it (burglars-abductors), it was done in Luz.

Is there any evidence of an MW-like reservation system in use anywhere in Tavira?

Is there any evidence of an OC-like holiday complex in Tavira?

There is no point in ruling the nature of Luz-OC out, given Luz-OC is the crime scene.
What's up, old man?