The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.

[sadie]

Do you expect people to read the entire files to check that what you're saying is correct? Please provide a cite confirming your assertion.

Eleanor is right.  It is common knowledge to anyone who has followed the case.

[stephen25000]

Eleanor is right.  It is common knowledge to anyone who has followed the case.

What is common knowledge is subject to biased interpretation.

[sadie]

So some dozy git lost a bunch of keys?

Yep, IIRC it was one of the maintenance staff.   Please correct me if I have that wrong.

[sadie]

That isn't the point.  Security wrt keys was weak.

As is so happens, security wrt to closed but unlocked windows was not too hot either.  Combine knowing the shutter could be opened from outside with knowing the window was unlocked, and you have the possibility of a burglary and more.


I presume OG was talking to John Hill about something, and I don't think that something was Smithman.

What would your questions be to put to Mr Hill?  How about - how many burglaries in the OC - and in how many was there no evidence of forced entry?

Agreed.

[misty]

Eleanor is right.  It is common knowledge to anyone who has followed the case.

Actually, it's not in the files, Sadie. The alleged loss of the keys to block 5 only came to light following an investigation by the Daily Express, as reported in Feb 2014.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/458798/Apartment-key-theft-cover-up-by-resort-staff-in-Madeleine-McCann-case

[slartibartfast]

Actually, it's not in the files, Sadie. The alleged loss of the keys to block 5 only came to light following an investigation by the Daily Express, as reported in Feb 2014.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/458798/Apartment-key-theft-cover-up-by-resort-staff-in-Madeleine-McCann-case

So not even a fact then, just a newspaper article.

[misty]

So not even a fact then, just a newspaper article.

I don't believe the keys were lost, no - but I do wonder why somebody felt the need to make people think that they were.

[sadie]

One presumes he nicked a key and had a copy made ?

Nicked ... borrowed ... found

Whatever


Most likely is borrowed imo. 

But, of course that most likely involves the co-operation of a certain member of OC staff
Or, it was borrowed by someone who was trusted with the keys and was part of the abductors / burglary team.

The million dollar question is who?


I think these keys were cast or forged ... not cut by the looks of them.

If cast, then any handy man could make a copy, simples.  Tells you how on the internet

[slartibartfast]

I don't believe the keys were lost, no - but I do wonder why somebody felt the need to make people think that they were.

Reduce blame.

[mercury]

That isn't the point.  Security wrt keys was weak.

As is so happens, security wrt to closed but unlocked windows was not too hot either.  Combine knowing the shutter could be opened from outside with knowing the window was unlocked, and you have the possibility of a burglary and more.

I presume OG was talking to John Hill about something, and I don't think that something was Smithman.

What would your questions be to put to Mr Hill?  How about - how many burglaries in the OC - and in how many was there no evidence of forced entry?

I would put a question to DP who according to MO told MW they planned to leave all their kids alone

I would also ask GM if he had lost his mind telling complete strangers his kids were alone

??

[misty]

Reduce blame.

Blame for what? Wasn't the general consensus that there was no illegal entry to 5a?

[sadie]

I don't believe the keys were lost, no - but I do wonder why somebody felt the need to make people think that they were.

I think that they were lost, stolen or borrowed, because I am convinced that entry to 5A was via the isolated and very very dark front door.  A door which was recessed... in a 'black hole' ... and a place that was not overlooked from anywhere ... and that no-one passed.

No damage to that door so a key must have been used.

I remember when trying to buy a flat in St Johns Wood, the estate agent used a credit card to overcome the lock.  It worked on one flat but another flat had a Banham high security lock and it wouldn't open that.

On one forum that I was on, someone said that type of lock that was on 5A could not be overcome by a credit card or any other device.


But then someone else came on (from PT with a similar type lock) and assured us that there was a way that the 5A type of lock could be overcome.



So take your pick !

[misty]

I think that they were lost, stolen or borrowed, because I am convinced that entry to 5A was via the isolated and very very dark front door.  A door which was recessed... in a 'black hole' ... and a place that was not overlooked from anywhere ... and that no-one passed.

No damage to that door so a key must have been used.

I remember when trying to buy a flat in St Johns Wood, the estate agent used a credit card to overcome the lock.  It worked on one flat but another flat had a Banham high security lock and it wouldn't open that.

On one forum that I was on, someone said that type of lock that was on 5A could not be overcome by a credit card or any other device.


But then someone else came on (from PT with a similar type lock) and assured us that there was a way that the 5A type of lock could be overcome.



So take your pick !

IMO it is feasible that the key to 5a was borrowed from the bunch for a few hours & returned before anyone knew Madeleine was missing. I do not think it was removed from the cleaner's set of keys or reception's, which leaves the maintenance set. I have asked this before - where, exactly, is the laundry/maintenance room where those keys were kept?

[pegasus]

(snip) I have asked this before - where, exactly, is the laundry/maintenance room where those keys were kept?

The laundry is in the same building as the Tapas restaurant/bar Misty, underneath it.

[mercury]

Actually, it's not in the files, Sadie. The alleged loss of the keys to block 5 only came to light following an investigation by the Daily Express, as reported in Feb 2014.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/458798/Apartment-key-theft-cover-up-by-resort-staff-in-Madeleine-McCann-case

thanks, that should stop people posting untrue facts