The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.

[pegasus]

#
you are absolutely right and i have said this many times. SY have to make a decision ..is Kate telling the truth...and if she is then abduction is odds on...as SY seem to believe

I find this witness to be truthful Davel. For example without this witness we would never have known about the extent of involvement of MB GB TB and DM, and never known about the ACC, and there are many many more examples. An honest and valuable source IMO. To dismiss this witness's testimony would guarantee the non-solving of the case IMO.

[jassi]

The only evidence for a burglary attempt is the open shutter and window.

Think about it - if you claim that KM opened the window, you are really completely ruling out a burglary attempt.

Yes - and ?

[G-Unit]

A good general point, however this was almost certainly the first time this witness touched the window, therefore her prints on the glass were made when she leaned to look out of the already open window at about 10pm on the 3rd.

How people can possibly claim the 5 prints on glass indicate she opened the window is a mystery to me. If she'd opened the window she would have used the handle, not the glass - it's just common sense.

Was there a handle? Was the locking button on the handle? I can't find any pics. My windows have a handle with a button on it. To open and close it I can just turn the handle up then open and down after closing. To lock it I have to press the button while turning the handle down. Then I have to press the button in order to lift the handle if I want to open the window. The window isn't locked just because the handle is down, but I don't think that means it could be opened from outside.

[pegasus]

@Jassi If KM is truthful about finding the window and shutter already open, that indicates there was a burglary attempt, which would directly explain the child exiting the room - to get away from the danger by pulling the bedroom door open and running through to another room. 

If you claim that KM opened the window, then there would be no evidence of any burglary attempt, so my simple explanation of why and how the child left that bedroom would be rubbish.

So it would need replacing with an alternative theory. Why, and exactly how, do you propose the child left that bedroom? On foot? Carried? Awake? Not awake?

[jassi]

@Jassi If KM is truthful aout finding the window and shutter already open, that indicates there was a burglary attempt, which would directly explain the child exiting the room - to get away from the danger by pulling the bedroom door open and running through to another room. 

If you claim that KM opened the window, then there would be no evidence of any burglary attempt, so my simple explanation of why and how the child left that bedroom would be impossible rubbish.

So it would need replacing with an alternative theory. Why, and exactly how, do you propose the child left that bedroom? On foot? Carried? Awake? Not awake?

There is insufficient data available in the public domain to come to a definitive conclusion.

[G-Unit]

It's based on KM statements Jassi.
If you start out assuming this witness is not truthful, and if you are wrong, you guarantee you will not solve the case, because by rejecting everything that the most important witness (apart from the missing child) states, you would lose a large part of the accurate information needed to solve the case.

Even if the witness is telling the truth, the window could have been opened as early as 9pm and not noticed by passer's by. It could have been opened by anyone too, not necessarily a burglar or abductor.

[pegasus]

There is insufficient data available in the public domain to come to a definitive conclusion.

By assuming that KM is telling the truth about finding the window and shutter open
- the first room of the case can be solved

[jassi]

By assuming that KM is telling the truth about finding the window and shutter open
- the first room of the case can be solved

Surely you have to make other assumptions as well, such as Madeleine being capable of moving, or being there in the first place.

[sadie]

If only we had a video of someone trying to open 5A door with a plastic card.
Oh wait a minute - found one Sadie. http://youtu.be/qdMoUFnnYfc?t=43m38s

Thanks Pegasus

Key to 5A

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4WzaXOhhQQk/T27yQhGHRKI/AAAAAAAACm4/IXwS8Atj1hg/s1600/1105_maddie2_05.jpg



With that funny key, turning the tumblers at different times, I never really thought that a credit card was used ... but then again, perhaps on some less recessed doors it might have worked.  Dunno

Seems to me that with that funny key the tumblers would move at different stages of the keys rotation .... surely that would make it more difficult for credit card opening.  But I am not a locksmith so I could be wrong on that thought.


Incedently, a copy of the key could very easily be made by casting it in a home made mold (from the original).  Instructions are on the internet

[pegasus]

Surely you have to make other assumptions as well, such as Madeleine being capable of moving, ... (snip)

IMO it is reasonable to make the assumption the child was capable of moving. There was no cage around the bed was there? Also I seem to be the only person to credit her with the intelligence to move away from danger. If someone outside opened my bedroom window in the middle of the night when I was 3, I certainly would have moved, fast, into another room.

[pegasus]

Surely you have to make other assumptions as well, such as ... (snip) ... being there in the first place.

IMO the child was certainly in the child bedroom at about 7.15pm. Weren't there two witnesses to that? Two-witness sightings tend to be very reliable.

[slartibartfast]

Thanks Pegasus

Key to 5A

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4WzaXOhhQQk/T27yQhGHRKI/AAAAAAAACm4/IXwS8Atj1hg/s1600/1105_maddie2_05.jpg



With that funny key, turning the tumblers at different times, I never really thought that a credit card was used ... but then again, perhaps on some less recessed doors it might have worked.  Dunno

Seems to me that with that funny key the tumblers would move at different stages of the keys rotation .... surely that would make it more difficult for credit card opening.  But I am not a locksmith so I could be wrong on that thought.


Incedently, a copy of the key could very easily be made by casting it in a home made mold (from the original).  Instructions are on the internet

Back to the home furnace tale are we?

[stephen25000]

Back to the home furnace tale are we?

That does seem to be a theme among some mccann supporters.

[G-Unit]

Thanks Pegasus

Key to 5A

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4WzaXOhhQQk/T27yQhGHRKI/AAAAAAAACm4/IXwS8Atj1hg/s1600/1105_maddie2_05.jpg



With that funny key, turning the tumblers at different times, I never really thought that a credit card was used ... but then again, perhaps on some less recessed doors it might have worked.  Dunno

Seems to me that with that funny key the tumblers would move at different stages of the keys rotation .... surely that would make it more difficult for credit card opening.  But I am not a locksmith so I could be wrong on that thought.


Incedently, a copy of the key could very easily be made by casting it in a home made mold (from the original).  Instructions are on the internet

Experienced British locksmith John Reeder told us the key used to take us into the flat yesterday is almost certainly a copy. He said: "Most locksmiths would not be able to copy it without great difficulty. The one in the picture is almost certainly not the original."
Supporting the theory that the kidnap could be an inside job, he added: "I would say it is most likely there is at least one other key in circulation as most locks come with at least two spares when they are cut. But there are not many keys around like this one."
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id21.html

[Lace]

I have often wondered how the cleaner managed to get into that apartment where the man said they locked the door and put a key in the lock so that the cleaner wouldn't come in unexpectedly,   she still managed to get in !!!