Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom

[Caroline]

No I pointed out that his blood didn't need to be on the bedding but since the bedding was not examined we don't know whether it was or wasn't.  The photos of the bedding near SHeila have more than just the background pattern on them there does appear to be blood in the meantime.

That you disagree with the official line put out by the experts means little. You do not refute any of the evidence they rely upon to come up with their assessments you just ignore it.  Your claims make no sense at all except in your mind and are contradicted by evidence regardless of what you care to think.

Well, lets see if they make sense to other people. We know your opinion, let someone else comment.

[Opal]

DR Peter Vanezis Report 7th May 1986

I have been asked to comment on bullet wounds itemized 1,2,3,4, on N. Bamber

Firstly these wounds cannot be taken in isolation when discussing the effect of each regarding fatality. I will therefore comment on the collective nature of their effects and I will also comment on a possible effect of that a wound in this region would have.

In my view it is extremely unlikely that the victim could have received any of the 4 wounds upstairs and made his way down to the kitchen under his own steam.  In all probability these four wounds were inflicted after the victim had ceased to struggle. Because they had been fired in two groups to the same side of the head within a confined area thus indicating that the deceased had not moved substantially after the first wound was received.

5/6 Wounds -  The blood loss that would be expected from such wounds would be substantial both internally and externally and would depend on how long the victim would survive suffice to say that the regions injured have a rich blood supply.

Regarding wound 7. -  In my view after the infliction of this wound the victim’s ability to use his left arm would be totally impaired.

Wound 8. – the difficulty in finding bullet fragments could be due to the fact that some of these may have been in clothing. 

Not just my opinion! Going by the pathologist's report it looks like blood would have been present in the upstairs Master bedroom, but there isn't!

[Holly Goodhead]

I've said all I need to say in this thread:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6883.msg293857#msg293857

In summary:

- No evidence NB was shot in the main bedroom
- No evidence of any of NB's blood on the bedding
- No evidence of any of NB's blood on the carpet
- DC Hammersley confirmed at trial that everything of evidential value was removed from the bed in the main bedroom
- Carpet samples from the main bedroom were analysed and found to match June's blood group - A and AK2-1
- Blue socks from the main bedroom were analysed and found to match June's blood - A and AK2-1
- Location of casings in the main bedroom and landing do not support the theory NB was shot whilst he was in the main bedroom

I'm not sure any experts have ever categorically stated NB was shot in the main bedroom?  If they have on what basis?

Although I agree with Caro on the above I disagree with the following:

- SC slept with June on the basis she wanted to be near the twins.  The twins were 6 year olds not new borns.
- If SC wanted to be near the twins JB's former bedroom was closer.
- The bed in the main bedroom looks queen or king sized.  NB and June were not heffers and could quite easily accommodate the bears which was probably a bit of child play with the twins.  I seem to recall my parents doing similar when their grandchildren stayed over.  I'm surprised Caro didn't ask JB about the bears?
- The slippers in SC's bedroom could belong to anyone or just be guest slippers.  AP stayed there the previous w.e they may have been his or he may have borrowed a pair from NB.  If they were being used by NB or SC then why were they not by the side of the slept in bed?
- SC was clearly using her former bedroom as her personal belongings were on the unused bed.
- The tiny blood sample found outside SC's bedroom door was tested but the results were inconclusive.  It could belong to anyone.

[Myster]

I'm surprised Caro didn't ask JB about the bears?

One was definitely called Cuthbert... the other I'm not sure about, but could have been his brother, Clarence.

[Caroline]

I've said all I need to say in this thread:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6883.msg293857#msg293857

In summary:

- No evidence NB was shot in the main bedroom
- No evidence of any of NB's blood on the bedding
- No evidence of any of NB's blood on the carpet
- DC Hammersley confirmed at trial that everything of evidential value was removed from the bed in the main bedroom
- Carpet samples from the main bedroom were analysed and found to match June's blood group - A and AK2-1
- Blue socks from the main bedroom were analysed and found to match June's blood - A and AK2-1
- Location of casings in the main bedroom and landing do not support the theory NB was shot whilst he was in the main bedroom

I'm not sure any experts have ever categorically stated NB was shot in the main bedroom?  If they have on what basis?

Although I agree with Caro on the above I disagree with the following:

- SC slept with June on the basis she wanted to be near the twins.  The twins were 6 year olds not new borns.
- If SC wanted to be near the twins JB's former bedroom was closer.
- The bed in the main bedroom looks queen or king sized.  NB and June were not heffers and could quite easily accommodate the bears which was probably a bit of child play with the twins.  I seem to recall my parents doing similar when their grandchildren stayed over.  I'm surprised Caro didn't ask JB about the bears?
- The slippers in SC's bedroom could belong to anyone or just be guest slippers.  AP stayed there the previous w.e they may have been his or he may have borrowed a pair from NB.  If they were being used by NB or SC then why were they not by the side of the slept in bed?
- SC was clearly using her former bedroom as her personal belongings were on the unused bed.
- The tiny blood sample found outside SC's bedroom door was tested but the results were inconclusive.  It could belong to anyone.

Anyone could have put her stuff on the bed or she could have been using the room to store her stuff. I didn't say she slept there every night but I think something happened that night fr her to be there. Jeremy said the slippers were his dads.

[Holly Goodhead]

One was definitely called Cuthbert... the other I'm not sure about, but could have been his brother, Clarence.

Lol.  If it wasn't for you doing your thing with the photos I wouldn't have even know there were two present.

[Myster]

Anyone could have put her stuff on the bed or she could have been using the room to store her stuff. I didn't say she slept there every night but I think something happened that night fr her to be there. Jeremy said the slippers were his dads.

If as you say they were definitely his dad's, why were they nowhere near to where one would have expected them to be... by the side of the bed that had been slept in/on?

None of his daytime clothing was visible or found? in Sheila's room, but there does appear to be some decorating the chair by the side of his bed in the master bedroom. As well as his blue socks on the floor?

[Myster]

Lol.  If it wasn't for you doing your thing with the photos I wouldn't have even know there were two present.

I think that deserves a like... I'm stuck on 7 and desperate to catch John up!

[Caroline]

If as you say they were definitely his dad's, why were they nowhere near to where one would have expected them to be... by the side of the bed that had been slept in/on?

None of his daytime clothing was visible or found? in Sheila's room, but there does appear to be some decorating the chair by the side of his bed in the master bedroom. As well as his blue socks on the floor?

They were near there door, that's where I kick mine off if I wear them. He usually had a shower before going to bed, seems natural to leave them in the bathroom, he may have left them in the kitchen because there are clothes on the floor soaking up the blood - or they maybe elsewhere in the bedroom, we can't see the whole room.

[Holly Goodhead]

I think that deserves a like... I'm stuck on 7 and desperate to catch John up!

Done!  I've only given out one or maybe two likes.  It's all too much: contemplating moving posts and making Trood's Vlogs larger, moderating, posting and liking.  I can't cope with all this multi-tasking 

I had a peep on the McCann board and some of the posters are up to nearly 100 likes and that was midday!  I guess it's a much busier board.

[Holly Goodhead]

Anyone could have put her stuff on the bed or she could have been using the room to store her stuff. I didn't say she slept there every night but I think something happened that night fr her to be there. Jeremy said the slippers were his dads.

Can't you write to him again and say you're having second thoughts and ask about the bears?

[scipio_usmc]

DR Peter Vanezis Report 7th May 1986

I have been asked to comment on bullet wounds itemized 1,2,3,4, on N. Bamber

Firstly these wounds cannot be taken in isolation when discussing the effect of each regarding fatality. I will therefore comment on the collective nature of their effects and I will also comment on a possible effect of that a wound in this region would have.

In my view it is extremely unlikely that the victim could have received any of the 4 wounds upstairs and made his way down to the kitchen under his own steam.  In all probability these four wounds were inflicted after the victim had ceased to struggle. Because they had been fired in two groups to the same side of the head within a confined area thus indicating that the deceased had not moved substantially after the first wound was received.

5/6 Wounds -  The blood loss that would be expected from such wounds would be substantial both internally and externally and would depend on how long the victim would survive suffice to say that the regions injured have a rich blood supply.

Regarding wound 7. -  In my view after the infliction of this wound the victim’s ability to use his left arm would be totally impaired.

Wound 8. – the difficulty in finding bullet fragments could be due to the fact that some of these may have been in clothing. 

Not just my opinion! Going by the pathologist's report it looks like blood would have been present in the upstairs Master bedroom, but there isn't!

The Pathologist report says that while wounds 5-8 were inflicted upstairs wounds 1-4 could not have been.  Nevill was shot 8 times not 4. Wounds 4-8 were the shots into his skull.  There were 3 casings in the kitchen, 8 in the room with the twins, 13 in the master bedroom and 1 on the landing of the stairs. The report in question was to refute that the shell casing on the stairs could have gotten there from Nevill being shot while on the stairs. All 4 shots to the skull had to be delivered in the kitchen because any one of them would have taken him down.  Moreover, they were fired in pairs while he was not moving based on the grouping of the shots. they were delivered while he was already lying down. 2 were delivered tho the top of his skull and the second group to the right side of his skull.

This report was the basis for establishing the casing on the stairs must have gotten stuck to a shoe and was transported from the kitchen to the stairs by either the killer or police.

[adam]

Thirteen shell casings in the master bedroom ? But why should the evidence get in the way of a theory ? It never has before in this case.

There was a teddy bear in the master bedroom. Surely that means Sheila slept with June. Why ? So she could be nearer her 6 year old sons who were errrr in another room !

The reason why Sheila wanted to be nearer two six year old boys (who were in another bedroom) has yet to be given.

This theory is not as sick as the suggestion that Sheila and Neville shared a bed. Which three posters on Blue previously discussed.

[APRIL]

Thirteen shell casings in the master bedroom ? But why should the evidence get in the way of a theory ? It never has before in this case.

There was a teddy bear in the master bedroom. Surely that means Sheila slept with June. Why ? So she could be nearer her 6 year old sons who were errrr in another room !

The reason why Sheila wanted to be nearer two six year old boys (who were in another bedroom) has yet to be given.

This theory is not as sick as the suggestion that Sheila and Neville shared a bed. Which three posters on Blue previously discussed.

I can only think it was Mike's -not so subtle- suggestion of an incestuous relationship between Sheila and Nevill which was being discussed. I don't recall ANYONE suggesting a "three in a bed" scenario.

[Caroline]

Thirteen shell casings in the master bedroom ? But why should the evidence get in the way of a theory ? It never has before in this case.

There was a teddy bear in the master bedroom. Surely that means Sheila slept with June. Why ? So she could be nearer her 6 year old sons who were errrr in another room !

The reason why Sheila wanted to be nearer two six year old boys (who were in another bedroom) has yet to be given.

This theory is not as sick as the suggestion that Sheila and Neville shared a bed. Which three posters on Blue previously discussed.

Find the post and prove it? You couldn't grasp what was being said and make that conclusion yourself.