Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom

[Myster]

What is odd, was that he initially said he had shit the rifle then changed his mind (like you could forget), guess he realised there was no physical evidence of such shots being that he made up the story about the rabbits.

He needed to have swallowed it first... very painful! 

Like please!
 

[scipio_usmc]

Yipeee!!!! Thank God for someone who recognizes that this was NEVER a case of "painting by numbers" and people don't always act true to form.

If the weapon jammed after shooting Nevill in the kitchen it would be highly illogical to drop the magazine, reload the magazine, to reinsert it and then walk with the weapon trying to unjam it.

Worse yet this would mean the weapon would not have 11 rounds thus would require Jeremy reloading a single round either to fire between June's eyes after killing Sheila or in order to shoot Sheila an additional time.

 

[scipio_usmc]

Perhaps someone can tell me if I'm right or not here....

When shooting at bunnies it's best to use a shotgun instead of a rifle, the reason being that the pellets spread more on firing than a rifle, giving more chance of hitting a moving target? If this is right, then I'm sure NB would have known this...being a farmer...and also JB. There were plenty of other guns in the property, why did JB choose to use the rifle?

A shotgun is better if you are not a good shot with a rifle. Nevill favored a 410 for shooting rabbits which is a mainstay. Jeremy said he wanted a rifle and that was why Nevill purchased it.  He really wanted a semi-auto in order to kill everyone.  The only semi-auto he could get Nevill to buy was a 22LR. 

[scipio_usmc]

Not really an expert on guns but I would have thought the rifle was better suited, I think (especially with the sites), it would be more accurate and a shot gun would would damage the property - given that he was 'supposed' to be shooting them in the yard.

What is odd, was that he initially said he had shit the rifle then changed his mind (like you could forget), guess he realised there was no physical evidence of such shots being that he made up the story about the rabbits.

It's unclear whether he initially said he fired the rifle or not. He said he didn't get the rabbits. That could be because they got away without him getting off a shot or firing but missing.

In his initial account could simply have been vague and misinterpreted. He could have been vague on purpose to keep his options open. Later he was very specific in saying they got away because they were gone by the time he got out there. The police didn't quote him verbatim to say he fired and missed but rather that he missed them which they interpreted as him firing and missing.

Since Jeremy made up the whole account he hadn't really thought out the details. He didn't clearly think about what to say about exactly how he came across the rabbits and thus his first tale where he spoke about being in the kitchen with the family and running after the from the kitchen. He fleshed it out more later as he thought in detail what to make up. He wanted police to believe a fully loaded gun was left for Sheila to grab so it is unlikely he originally intended for police to think she fired but missed. It seems he just didn't fully flesh things out and didn't realize they would think he meant he fired and missed when he said they got away.

None of the cops at the scene say he specifically said he fired and missed butt rather simply he missed them which they interpreted as him firing. In many ways this is like the bed issue with far side of the bed and near side of the bed meaning the floor next to the bed not actually the bed itself. 

That is not to say Jeremy didn't drastically change some things. Jeremy wanted the police at the scene to think Sheila could use all the guns and thus made up teaching her to use them.  He realized the detectives would ask why he would teach someone he considered insane and didn't like or trust so when speaking to them he told a different account.

It is not impossible Jeremy said he fired but missed to the initial responders but later thought the better of it and decided it was better to pretend he fired no shots so the gun could be fully loaded for sheila to find.  Still I think the entire plan of making up the rabbit story was to suggest she found a fully loaded weapon of opportunity and thus all along he would recognize the value in claiming the rabbits left before he could fire.  I believe the police and family for that matter simply misinterpreted.

Addendum:

Upon review of what the initial responders said he told them the magazine was full when he left it in the kitchen.  Quite clearly he was not suggesting he fired and missed since he was suggesting the magazine was full. 

The family kept saying he said he missed the rabbits, they seem to be the main ones who misinterpreted. The detectives were unsure whether he meant missed as in fired and missed or didn't fire so they made Jeremy clarify which. In Jeremy's August 7 written statement he said he didn't fire any shots because they asked him clarify.

[Opal]

If the weapon jammed after shooting Nevill in the kitchen it would be highly illogical to drop the magazine, reload the magazine, to reinsert it and then walk with the weapon trying to unjam it.

Worse yet this would mean the weapon would not have 11 rounds thus would require Jeremy reloading a single round either to fire between June's eyes after killing Sheila or in order to shoot Sheila an additional time.

Or could JB have shot at a Rabbit, leaving 9 bullets in the rifle. these he used shooting JB 6 times SC 1. and NB 2 times upstairs. Reloaded downstairs after struggle with NB. 10 in magazine...shot NB 6 times....reloaded 6 bullets = 10 and returned upstairs using 8 on twins and one more each on JB and SC. Although no bullet was found outside. I do remember reading the police questioned JB about the number of bullets left in pack of 55 bullets. I believe I'm right in saying there were 29 bullets left in pack. 25 used in murders. = 54.One bullet missing.

[scipio_usmc]

Or could JB have shot at a Rabbit, leaving 9 bullets in the rifle. these he used shooting JB 6 times SC 1. and NB 2 times upstairs. Reloaded downstairs after struggle with NB. 10 in magazine...shot NB 6 times....reloaded 6 bullets = 10 and returned upstairs using 8 on twins and one more each on JB and SC. Although no bullet was found outside. I do remember reading the police questioned JB about the number of bullets left in pack of 55 bullets. I believe I'm right in saying there were 29 bullets left in pack. 25 used in murders. = 54.One bullet missing.

There were no rabbits he made up the whole tale that is why in his first account he heard the rabbits, in another account he saw them from the kitchen and his final account he left the house then saw the rabbits and returned to the house to get the gun. He was not know to EVER shoot vermin let alone to run to the house anytime he saw vermin in hopes the vermin would still be there by the time he loaded the gun and returned.  He made up the rabbit story to pretend he took the gun out, loaded it and left it out.

A full pack had 50 rounds not 55. He said it was already open and near full or full. 50-25 =25 yet there were 30 bullets in the kitchen. He staged them after the murders.

Nevill was shot 4 times upstairs at the same time June was shot 6, 10 rounds were fired in the first volley.  Nevill was shot 4 times in the kitchen not 6.

[Holly Goodhead]

What they can't tell for sure is the order of the exact order of 10 shots in the first episode. While it is rather obvious June chest shots were fired at her after the 4 shots where she was in bed there is no way to know the order of the 4 shots in bed. Nor is there a way to know whether all were fired at her then Nevill targeted or a mix of the shots. 

In the second kitchen shooting episode there is know why to know whether the first 2 shots fired were to the tip of the skull ad latter 2 to the right side or vice versa. We just know these were the next 4 shots fired.

Nor can they tell which twin was shot first. One was shot then the other but no way to know who was shot first for certain. For that matter there is no way to know for certain whether the shot between June's eyes was before or after killing the boys and it is even possible though not likely that Sheila was shot and killed before the twins.

We know 10 rounds were fired in the master bedroom at the parents and the wounds they caused but not the precise order of these shots.

We know after Nevill was beaten unconscious the gun was reloaded and 4 rounds fired into Nevill's head though not the precise order of these shots.

We know the gun was then fully reloaded so that it had 11 and that 1 was fired between June's eyes, 2 into Sheila and 8 into the boys but not the precise order of these shots.

The evidence can only tell who was shot where and which loading of the magazine corresponded to the shootings.  Only a witness could describe the exact order and usually that is often not fully accurate because in the heat of the moment people are not paying careful attention. Even shooters often don't remember the exact order or number of shots they fired.

I should have said the order in which the victims were shot.  Malcolm Fletcher said he thought the twins were shot last with Dr Vanezis saying the opposite ie first.  I will quote from the book for you which most definitely deserves a like:

Page 416:

"Not all those consulted agree on every point of the above.  Ballistics expert Malcolm Fletcher believes that Jeremy fired eight shots into his parents first, and that Nevill escaped to try and raise the alarm using the telephone downstairs, while Jeremy forced Sheila into the master bedroom, where he shot her once; after killing Nevill, he returned to fire the fatal shots at June, and another at Sheila before expending the remaining bullets on Nicholas and Daniel.  However, pathologist Peter Vanezis is of the opinion that the twins may have been first to die.  And no one is able to satisfactorily explain the burn marks on Nevill's back.

What does this tell you?  It tells me the pair are/were hopeless:

1. It seems obvious June was initially shot 6 times and NB 4 times?

2. Dr Vanezis said SC's second gsw happened within a few seconds of the first gsw:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=205.0;attach=732

According to MF above, JB shot SC once, went off to kill NB in the kitchen and then returned to fatally shoot SC.

3.  Why on earth would JB murder the completely defenceless twins before dealing with NB arguably his greatest adversary?

[Holly Goodhead]

There were no rabbits he made up the whole tale that is why in his first account he heard the rabbits, in another account he saw them from the kitchen and his final account he left the house then saw the rabbits and returned to the house to get the gun. He was not know to EVER shoot vermin let alone to run to the house anytime he saw vermin in hopes the vermin would still be there by the time he loaded the gun and returned.  He made up the rabbit story to pretend he took the gun out, loaded it and left it out.

A full pack had 50 rounds not 55. He said it was already open and near full or full. 50-25 =25 yet there were 30 bullets in the kitchen. He staged them after the murders.

Nevill was shot 4 times upstairs at the same time June was shot 6, 10 rounds were fired in the first volley.  Nevill was shot 4 times in the kitchen not 6.

How do you know he was "not known to EVER shoot vermin"?  The only reliable witness likely to be able to confirm or deny this would surely be NB?

He said the box was "nearly full".  There's no way of knowing how many = "nearly full" but more importantly there were hundreds of rounds elsewhere in the farmhouse and we've no way of knowing where the perp accessed them from: elsewhere or the "nearly full" box.

[Holly Goodhead]

Not really an expert on guns but I would have thought the rifle was better suited, I think (especially with the sites), it would be more accurate and a shot gun would would damage the property - given that he was 'supposed' to be shooting them in the yard.

What is odd, was that he initially said he had shit the rifle then changed his mind (like you could forget), guess he realised there was no physical evidence of such shots being that he made up the story about the rabbits.

The cartridges used with shotguns are about the size of a small battery.  Inside they contain a number of small pellets which upon firing expand outwards.  Therefore if you are shooting a moving target eg bird you could potentially take it out without a direct hit. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpFlohCmYUk

My farmer friends tell me .22 rifles ae good for nothing!  The cartridges are about the size of the tip of your little finger and you need to make a direct hit for a kill.

[Opal]

Just remembered a neighbour of JB in Goldhanger states he heard a a shot that evening before he saw JB coming home. Care of CAL

[scipio_usmc]

I should have said the order in which the victims were shot.  Malcolm Fletcher said he thought the twins were shot last with Dr Vanezis saying the opposite ie first.  I will quote from the book for you which most definitely deserves a like:

Page 416:

"Not all those consulted agree on every point of the above.  Ballistics expert Malcolm Fletcher believes that Jeremy fired eight shots into his parents first, and that Nevill escaped to try and raise the alarm using the telephone downstairs, while Jeremy forced Sheila into the master bedroom, where he shot her once; after killing Nevill, he returned to fire the fatal shots at June, and another at Sheila before expending the remaining bullets on Nicholas and Daniel.  However, pathologist Peter Vanezis is of the opinion that the twins may have been first to die.  And no one is able to satisfactorily explain the burn marks on Nevill's back.

What does this tell you?  It tells me the pair are/were hopeless:

1. It seems obvious June was initially shot 6 times and NB 4 times?

2. Dr Vanezis said SC's second gsw happened within a few seconds of the first gsw:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=205.0;attach=732

According to MF above, JB shot SC once, went off to kill NB in the kitchen and then returned to fatally shoot SC.

3.  Why on earth would JB murder the completely defenceless twins before dealing with NB arguably his greatest adversary?

Speaking to people many years later is worthless unless you also refresh their memories in full.   Many years later people involved in a case will have less command of the facts than people who study the case.  That Fletcher did not remember the theory offered at trial and all the evidence that formed the basis and thus came up with something knew means little.

If Fletcher read all my points and thus was reminded of all the attendant facts then he likely would have agreed with the assessment made at trial.  Only 1 shot was fired at June at a different time than the other 6, the shot between her eyes. Only if the gun had 11 rounds could Jeremy have shot June and Nevill and still had 1 bullet left to use on Sheila.  The notion Jeremy had 1 bullet left but let Nevill go downstairs unmolested and decided to wake Sheila to kill her in the bedroom with June still moving around is absurd. It is absurd to think that Jeremy would not fear him calling the police. Just as absurd if not moreso is the fact that if Nevill were given enough time he could load some shotguns and come shoot Jeremy. If Fletcher were reminded of these things it would have a big impact on things.

Vanezis's opinion is worthless as to who was shot first he knew nothing about guns and didn't take into account any of the reloading issues or anything else. He didn't even try to make an assessment in 1985 let alone would he have any realistic chance now. Now he isn't even of any use as to the injuries he observed or condition of the bodies because his memory is shot.  At trial he noted Sheila had blood on the outer palm, wrist area and outside of her hands but not the inside palm and inside fingers. He forgot this and thus when CAL showed photos of blood on the outside of her hand and said he wrote in his autopsy report she was free of blood he erroneously thought he meant even the outside of her hands were free of blood.  He failed to recall his trial testimony and CAL didn't show him his trial testimony which is what she should have done.  You want a witness to try to refresh their memory.  He ended up saying maybe he meant there was no blood after he washed her.  His suggestion is absurd. Why would any coroner was blood from a body then write in their autopsy that the body was free of blood after being washed?  The report is to detail the condition of the body before washing.

The assessment I provided is the assessment that was figured out by using all the available evidence as a whole. In legal mumbo jumbo it is an assessment based on "the totality of the circumstances".  When speaking to CAL neither Vanezis nor Fletcher took the totality of the circumstances into account. Vanezis never did even in 1985 and Fletcher couldn't remember everything anymore.  As you point out Fletcher didn't even remember that Vanezis said both shots to Sheila were fired in very close proximity in time and thus didn't see a problem with suggesting after shooting her the kitchen struggle occurred.  He didn't remember where the wounds were and casings either thus was unaware how silly it is to claim 2 shots into June were fired substantially later than the others. Fletcher's contemporaneous judgment is way off too though not just poor recollection. Nevill wasn't alone in the kitchen for several minutes trying to use the phone, it would have been covered in blood. He would have at minimum grabbed a knife if not a shotgun if given the chance. Suggesting Jeremy gave him that leeway to go wake Sheila to kill her is absurd.

That people can come up with ill advised suggestions years later when their memory is foggy or (even at the time not just later) because they fail to adequately consider everything dispositive means very little except that you have to make sure experts are made aware of everything and take into account everything.  When lawyers consult experts they often have to point out all the issues to them and make sure their assessments cover all the bases.  Sometimes they make really stupid mistakes. I had an expert accidentally using the gram side of a hand scale who was calling the results OZ instead. 10oz is a hell of a lot more than 10 grams. While I can understand people making simple mistakes, people should recognize there is a problem when there is a disconnect.

I knew just from the context and weight in my hand that something had to be wrong but this expert didn't realize there was a problem with how heavy he was claiming it was. You have to thoroughly test claims to make sure they are accurate.  Doing so in this case results in the suggestion amde at trial which I posted and explained why it is valid and supported.




 

[Holly Goodhead]

Speaking to people many years later is worthless unless you also refresh their memories in full.   Many years later people involved in a case will have less command of the facts than people who study the case.  That Fletcher did not remember the theory offered at trial and all the evidence that formed the basis and thus came up with something knew means little.

If Fletcher read all my points and thus was reminded of all the attendant facts then he likely would have agreed with the assessment made at trial.  Only 1 shot was fired at June at a different time than the other 6, the shot between her eyes. Only if the gun had 11 rounds could Jeremy have shot June and Nevill and still had 1 bullet left to use on Sheila.  The notion Jeremy had 1 bullet left but let Nevill go downstairs unmolested and decided to wake Sheila to kill her in the bedroom with June still moving around is absurd. It is absurd to think that Jeremy would not fear him calling the police. Just as absurd if not moreso is the fact that if Nevill were given enough time he could load some shotguns and come shoot Jeremy. If Fletcher were reminded of these things it would have a big impact on things.

Vanezis's opinion is worthless as to who was shot first he knew nothing about guns and didn't take into account any of the reloading issues or anything else. He didn't even try to make an assessment in 1985 let alone would he have any realistic chance now. Now he isn't even of any use as to the injuries he observed or condition of the bodies because his memory is shot.  At trial he noted Sheila had blood on the outer palm, wrist area and outside of her hands but not the inside palm and inside fingers. He forgot this and thus when CAL showed photos of blood on the outside of her hand and said he wrote in his autopsy report she was free of blood he erroneously thought he meant even the outside of her hands were free of blood.  He failed to recall his trial testimony and CAL didn't show him his trial testimony which is what she should have done.  You want a witness to try to refresh their memory.  He ended up saying maybe he meant there was no blood after he washed her.  His suggestion is absurd. Why would any coroner was blood from a body then write in their autopsy that the body was free of blood after being washed?  The report is to detail the condition of the body before washing.

The assessment I provided is the assessment that was figured out by using all the available evidence as a whole. In legal mumbo jumbo it is an assessment based on "the totality of the circumstances".  When speaking to CAL neither Vanezis nor Fletcher took the totality of the circumstances into account. Vanezis never did even in 1985 and Fletcher couldn't remember everything anymore.  As you point out Fletcher didn't even remember that Vanezis said both shots to Sheila were fired in very close proximity in time and thus didn't see a problem with suggesting after shooting her the kitchen struggle occurred.  He didn't remember where the wounds were and casings either thus was unaware how silly it is to claim 2 shots into June were fired substantially later than the others. Fletcher's contemporaneous judgment is way off too though not just poor recollection. Nevill wasn't alone in the kitchen for several minutes trying to use the phone, it would have been covered in blood. He would have at minimum grabbed a knife if not a shotgun if given the chance. Suggesting Jeremy gave him that leeway to go wake Sheila to kill her is absurd.

That people can come up with ill advised suggestions years later when their memory is foggy or (even at the time not just later) because they fail to adequately consider everything dispositive means very little except that you have to make sure experts are made aware of everything and take into account everything.  When lawyers consult experts they often have to point out all the issues to them and make sure their assessments cover all the bases.  Sometimes they make really stupid mistakes. I had an expert accidentally using the gram side of a hand scale who was calling the results OZ instead. 10oz is a hell of a lot more than 10 grams. While I can understand people making simple mistakes, people should recognize there is a problem when there is a disconnect.

I knew just from the context and weight in my hand that something had to be wrong but this expert didn't realize there was a problem with how heavy he was claiming it was. You have to thoroughly test claims to make sure they are accurate.  Doing so in this case results in the suggestion amde at trial which I posted and explained why it is valid and supported.

It gets worse I'm afraid.  The following is from the official police account of how JB killed hiis family.  It's contained in the report to the Director of Public Prosecutions in November 1985, written with a view to having him committed for trial.  Acknowledging that the order of deaths could not be determined with certainty, the report contends that:

"...there were probably ten shots fired in the first fusillade [four into Nevill, one into Sheila and five into June] and the remaining three - two into June's head,one into Sheila's head - were inflicted after Ralph Nevill was killed in the kitchen.  Eight shots were fired into the boys - eight cases were recovered in their bedroom.  Four shots were fired into Ralph Nevill in the kitchen - namely, the two in his temple area andthe two to the top of his head.  Three cartridge cases were recovered in the kitchen.  It is therefore reasonable to assume that the fourth cartridge case was carried on the feet of the killer, or possibly a police officer, and deposited on the stairway."

[scipio_usmc]

How do you know he was "not known to EVER shoot vermin"?  The only reliable witness likely to be able to confirm or deny this would surely be NB?

He said the box was "nearly full".  There's no way of knowing how many = "nearly full" but more importantly there were hundreds of rounds elsewhere in the farmhouse and we've no way of knowing where the perp accessed them from: elsewhere or the "nearly full" box.

Entirely full is 50 rounds. Near full is less than 50 rounds. So the maximum number of rounds he took out was 50. The maximum of 50-25= 25 so for his story to be true there should have been no more than 25 rounds left in the kitchen. There were 30.  The only other 22LR ammunition in the house was in the office closet.  The notion any killer used some rounds from next to the phone and with 30 still remaining decided to stop using such supply but rather instead go to get some additional bullets from the closet is not the least bit credible.  When confronted with this Jeremy could not even make up some lie to account for it. Even at trial he still could not think up a lie to account for it nor could his lawyers.

Neither Jeremy's family nor the farm workers who he worked with knew him to shoot vermin period let alone was he in the habit of running to the house to arm himself upon seeing rabbits. People who kill vermin carry weapons with them so that in the event they encounter vermin they can kill them. They don't run to load a weapon and hope the animals will still be in the same spot minutes later.  Just seeing people move will make vermin run. 

Jeremy's tale was that he was inside as the family ate a later dinner with the boys already in bed.  He was present as they chatted then went outside during the twilight hours to check on something and saw bunnies by the potato shed and decided to get the gun to shoot them.  He was not known to ever do this let alone to do it at twilight hours.  His story only gets worse. He claims he was in a big hurry but instead of loading the magazine in the office he took the ammo box and magazine into the kitchen, dumped the bullets out by the phone and loaded the magazine.  Why would someone in a rush take the extra time to go to the kitchen to load it?  His answer was pathetic- because he always would load it in the kitchen instead of the office. This was in keeping with his original fairytale that he left the gun and magazine in the kitchen.  This fairytale (which he slightly changed to leaving the gun and magazine on the settle near the back door) and other things he said were intended to get police to think Sheila and Nevill were arguing, Sheila grabbed the weapon of opportunity, Nevill called for help then she disconnected the call attacking Nevill. Taff Jones fell hook line and sinker for it. Taff Jones ignored every red flag that popped up. Even after Jeremy was unable to account for why there were too many bullets left and it was determined that Nevill was attacked in the master bedroom he still didn't change his views. Even after it was determined the window could be opened and locked from the outside he failed to change his view.  Since he died we don't know whether he changed his views after Julie came forward and the moderator evidence was understood. He did interrogate Jeremy after such so it is possible he changed his views but he wasn't the head honcho in charge of the case at that point so maybe he just did it because he had to. We have no way to know whether he remained delusional to his death even after the most damning evidence came to light or whether he "saw the light".

His story that he found the gun without the moderator and scope attached are also not credible.  The scope and moderator were left attached. There was no need to remove the scope even during cleaning. The moderator would be removed during cleaning but that is it. The weapon was so dirty inside that in all likelihood it had never been cleaned. Less than 150 rounds had been put through it between the time it was purchased Nov 30, 1984 and the time of the murders. The only reason to remove the scope would be if one plans to use it at close quarters. Quite clearly he removed the scope in anticipation of the murders. He wanted to and did use the moderator. After the murders he removed it and put it away and made up the story that the gun was left out without it or the scope attached so police would not inquire about the scope and moderator. He lied telling police it didn't fit in the closet with the scope and moderator attached this was his excuse for why it lacked them and he said he was in a rush so didn't take the time to attach them. When this lie was refuted by his family he lied yet again saying he meant it didn't fit in its case with the scope and moderator attached. The lie was that there was no case Nevill didn't purchase a hard case for it.  His lies were to try to come up with a bogus excuse for the gun not having the scope and moderator on it when he would go to get it.  You don't consider these lies important but they are circumstantial evidence against him.  When this is compounded upon all the other evidence it all is complementary and builds an ironclad case against Jeremy which is why he has no hope of ever getting out.

 

[Holly Goodhead]

Entirely full is 50 rounds. Near full is less than 50 rounds. So the maximum number of rounds he took out was 50. The maximum of 50-25= 25 so for his story to be true there should have been no more than 25 rounds left in the kitchen. There were 30.  The only other 22LR ammunition in the house was in the office closet.  The notion any killer used some rounds from next to the phone and with 30 still remaining decided to stop using such supply but rather instead go to get some additional bullets from the closet is not the least bit credible.  When confronted with this Jeremy could not even make up some lie to account for it. Even at trial he still could not think up a lie to account for it nor could his lawyers.

Neither Jeremy's family nor the farm workers who he worked with knew him to shoot vermin period let alone was he in the habit of running to the house to arm himself upon seeing rabbits. People who kill vermin carry weapons with them so that in the event they encounter vermin they can kill them. They don't run to load a weapon and hope the animals will still be in the same spot minutes later.  Just seeing people move will make vermin run. 

Jeremy's tale was that he was inside as the family ate a later dinner with the boys already in bed.  He was present as they chatted then went outside during the twilight hours to check on something and saw bunnies by the potato shed and decided to get the gun to shoot them.  He was not known to ever do this let alone to do it at twilight hours.  His story only gets worse. He claims he was in a big hurry but instead of loading the magazine in the office he took the ammo box and magazine into the kitchen, dumped the bullets out by the phone and loaded the magazine.  Why would someone in a rush take the extra time to go to the kitchen to load it?  His answer was pathetic- because he always would load it in the kitchen instead of the office. This was in keeping with his original fairytale that he left the gun and magazine in the kitchen.  This fairytale (which he slightly changed to leaving the gun and magazine on the settle near the back door) and other things he said were intended to get police to think Sheila and Nevill were arguing, Sheila grabbed the weapon of opportunity, Nevill called for help then she disconnected the call attacking Nevill. Taff Jones fell hook line and sinker for it. Taff Jones ignored every red flag that popped up. Even after Jeremy was unable to account for why there were too many bullets left and it was determined that Nevill was attacked in the master bedroom he still didn't change his views. Even after it was determined the window could be opened and locked from the outside he failed to change his view.  Since he died we don't know whether he changed his views after Julie came forward and the moderator evidence was understood. He did interrogate Jeremy after such so it is possible he changed his views but he wasn't the head honcho in charge of the case at that point so maybe he just did it because he had to. We have no way to know whether he remained delusional to his death even after the most damning evidence came to light or whether he "saw the light".

His story that he found the gun without the moderator and scope attached are also not credible.  The scope and moderator were left attached. There was no need to remove the scope even during cleaning. The moderator would be removed during cleaning but that is it. The weapon was so dirty inside that in all likelihood it had never been cleaned. Less than 150 rounds had been put through it between the time it was purchased Nov 30, 1984 and the time of the murders. The only reason to remove the scope would be if one plans to use it at close quarters. Quite clearly he removed the scope in anticipation of the murders. He wanted to and did use the moderator. After the murders he removed it and put it away and made up the story that the gun was left out without it or the scope attached so police would not inquire about the scope and moderator. He lied telling police it didn't fit in the closet with the scope and moderator attached this was his excuse for why it lacked them and he said he was in a rush so didn't take the time to attach them. When this lie was refuted by his family he lied yet again saying he meant it didn't fit in its case with the scope and moderator attached. The lie was that there was no case Nevill didn't purchase a hard case for it.  His lies were to try to come up with a bogus excuse for the gun not having the scope and moderator on it when he would go to get it.  You don't consider these lies important but they are circumstantial evidence against him.  When this is compounded upon all the other evidence it all is complementary and builds an ironclad case against Jeremy which is why he has no hope of ever getting out.

If JB left the rifle where he said he did it's unlikely NB left it there.  Assuming NB returned it to the den/office the perp had to retrieve it from there which was the ammo was stored.  I believe the shotgun was found broken in the den (broken as in broken open for loading) so there's nothing to say the perp couldn't or didn't take the ammo from there.  As you have previously pointed out markings on some of the ammo showed it had been loaded and emptied.  Quite possible NB emptied the magazine and the perp reloaded with ammo from the gun cupboard.  Was this brought up at trial? 

Is there any testimony from the farm workers saying they had never seen JB shoot vermin?  It was well known he wasn't into shooting game and the like.  How would the family know what he did day-to-day on the farm?  The family had no idea about SC's mental illness and yet know whether or not JB takes pops at vermin?

He said he found the scope without sights and scope fitted.  AP said the opposite when he saw it a week or so prior.  Why should AP's version take precedence?  He didn't need the sight and scope to take pops at bunnies around the barns.  The rifle has a built in scope of sorts.  The add on scope/sights obviously enables the user to zero in on targets at longer distance but how would one see bunnies in long grass at distance to even zero in on them?  This is how it has been explained to me by my farming friends who have farmed all their lives for generations.  They know nothing of my interest in JB's case so there's no reason for them to tell me anything other than their personal experiences and knowledge gleaned over decades.

[Angelo222]

What is odd, was that he initially said he had shit the rifle then changed his mind (like you could forget), guess he realised there was no physical evidence of such shots being that he made up the story about the rabbits.

The lengths some people will go to to destroy evidence.  Must have been a hard swallow?