Author Topic: Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom  (Read 46630 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Angelo222

Re: Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom
« Reply #75 on: May 12, 2016, 09:08:36 AM »
The cartridges used with shotguns are about the size of a small battery.  Inside they contain a number of small pellets which upon firing expand outwards.  Therefore if you are shooting a moving target eg bird you could potentially take it out without a direct hit. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpFlohCmYUk

My farmer friends tell me .22 rifles ae good for nothing!  The cartridges are about the size of the tip of your little finger and you need to make a direct hit for a kill.

Oh dear Holly.  First you call experts hopeless and now you refer to the size of bullets as small batteries and finger tips...that's so precise!
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline APRIL

Re: Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom
« Reply #76 on: May 12, 2016, 09:13:07 AM »
The lengths some people will go to to destroy evidence.  Must have been a hard swallow?


And an even harder pass.

Offline Angelo222

Re: Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom
« Reply #77 on: May 12, 2016, 09:18:27 AM »
Entirely full is 50 rounds. Near full is less than 50 rounds. So the maximum number of rounds he took out was 50. The maximum of 50-25= 25 so for his story to be true there should have been no more than 25 rounds left in the kitchen. There were 30.  The only other 22LR ammunition in the house was in the office closet.  The notion any killer used some rounds from next to the phone and with 30 still remaining decided to stop using such supply but rather instead go to get some additional bullets from the closet is not the least bit credible.  When confronted with this Jeremy could not even make up some lie to account for it. Even at trial he still could not think up a lie to account for it nor could his lawyers.

Neither Jeremy's family nor the farm workers who he worked with knew him to shoot vermin period let alone was he in the habit of running to the house to arm himself upon seeing rabbits. People who kill vermin carry weapons with them so that in the event they encounter vermin they can kill them. They don't run to load a weapon and hope the animals will still be in the same spot minutes later.  Just seeing people move will make vermin run. 

Jeremy's tale was that he was inside as the family ate a later dinner with the boys already in bed.  He was present as they chatted then went outside during the twilight hours to check on something and saw bunnies by the potato shed and decided to get the gun to shoot them.  He was not known to ever do this let alone to do it at twilight hours.  His story only gets worse. He claims he was in a big hurry but instead of loading the magazine in the office he took the ammo box and magazine into the kitchen, dumped the bullets out by the phone and loaded the magazine.  Why would someone in a rush take the extra time to go to the kitchen to load it?  His answer was pathetic- because he always would load it in the kitchen instead of the office. This was in keeping with his original fairytale that he left the gun and magazine in the kitchen.  This fairytale (which he slightly changed to leaving the gun and magazine on the settle near the back door) and other things he said were intended to get police to think Sheila and Nevill were arguing, Sheila grabbed the weapon of opportunity, Nevill called for help then she disconnected the call attacking Nevill. Taff Jones fell hook line and sinker for it. Taff Jones ignored every red flag that popped up. Even after Jeremy was unable to account for why there were too many bullets left and it was determined that Nevill was attacked in the master bedroom he still didn't change his views. Even after it was determined the window could be opened and locked from the outside he failed to change his view.  Since he died we don't know whether he changed his views after Julie came forward and the moderator evidence was understood. He did interrogate Jeremy after such so it is possible he changed his views but he wasn't the head honcho in charge of the case at that point so maybe he just did it because he had to. We have no way to know whether he remained delusional to his death even after the most damning evidence came to light or whether he "saw the light".

His story that he found the gun without the moderator and scope attached are also not credible.  The scope and moderator were left attached. There was no need to remove the scope even during cleaning. The moderator would be removed during cleaning but that is it. The weapon was so dirty inside that in all likelihood it had never been cleaned. Less than 150 rounds had been put through it between the time it was purchased Nov 30, 1984 and the time of the murders. The only reason to remove the scope would be if one plans to use it at close quarters. Quite clearly he removed the scope in anticipation of the murders. He wanted to and did use the moderator. After the murders he removed it and put it away and made up the story that the gun was left out without it or the scope attached so police would not inquire about the scope and moderator. He lied telling police it didn't fit in the closet with the scope and moderator attached this was his excuse for why it lacked them and he said he was in a rush so didn't take the time to attach them. When this lie was refuted by his family he lied yet again saying he meant it didn't fit in its case with the scope and moderator attached. The lie was that there was no case Nevill didn't purchase a hard case for it.  His lies were to try to come up with a bogus excuse for the gun not having the scope and moderator on it when he would go to get it.  You don't consider these lies important but they are circumstantial evidence against him.  When this is compounded upon all the other evidence it all is complementary and builds an ironclad case against Jeremy which is why he has no hope of ever getting out.

 

When concocting lies it is the little details which catch people out every time.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Angelo222

Re: Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom
« Reply #78 on: May 12, 2016, 09:22:06 AM »
If JB left the rifle where he said he did it's unlikely NB left it there.  Assuming NB returned it to the den/office the perp had to retrieve it from there which was the ammo was stored.  I believe the shotgun was found broken in the den (broken as in broken open for loading) so there's nothing to say the perp couldn't or didn't take the ammo from there.  As you have previously pointed out markings on some of the ammo showed it had been loaded and emptied.  Quite possible NB emptied the magazine and the perp reloaded with ammo from the gun cupboard.  Was this brought up at trial? 

Is there any testimony from the farm workers saying they had never seen JB shoot vermin?  It was well known he wasn't into shooting game and the like.  How would the family know what he did day-to-day on the farm?  The family had no idea about SC's mental illness and yet know whether or not JB takes pops at vermin?

He said he found the scope without sights and scope fitted.  AP said the opposite when he saw it a week or so prior.  Why should AP's version take precedence?  He didn't need the sight and scope to take pops at bunnies around the barns.  The rifle has a built in scope of sorts.  The add on scope/sights obviously enables the user to zero in on targets at longer distance but how would one see bunnies in long grass at distance to even zero in on them?  This is how it has been explained to me by my farming friends who have farmed all their lives for generations.  They know nothing of my interest in JB's case so there's no reason for them to tell me anything other than their personal experiences and knowledge gleaned over decades.

Neville Bamber would never have left a rifle out with young children in the house, Jeremy Bambers story was such a load of old bull.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline adam

Re: Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom
« Reply #79 on: May 12, 2016, 01:19:38 PM »
There are too many unlikely events in the pre massacre scene Bamber sets -

He sees rabbitts. Although it's either dark or getting dark.

He decides to go and attempt to shoot them. To benefit the parents he hates ?

He does not attach the silencer. Meaning the rabbits are more likely to disperse upon one shot.

He fully loads the rifle. Although he will only get one realistic shot.

He goes outside and all the rabbits have gone ? Or he saw them and simply didn't fire any bullets.

He didn't take a few seconds to put the rifle back where he found it. Which surely people would do 9 times out of 10. And has never given a reason.

Neville and June either did not see the rifle sprawled across an area they were in. Or did see it and still left it out.

Sheila got the rifle....
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 01:29:24 PM by adam »

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom
« Reply #80 on: May 12, 2016, 02:12:16 PM »
Oh dear Holly.  First you call experts hopeless and now you refer to the size of bullets as small batteries and finger tips...that's so precise!

Oh dear indeed...I assume on this occasion Angelo my post isn't going to get a 'like' from you 8(8-))

I refer to the experts as hopeless for good reason: Malcolm Fletcher and The Director for Public Prosecutions claim JB shot SC once upstairs before going to the kitchen to reload the rifle, shoot NB a further four times, engage in some sort of struggle over the rifle and then return upstairs to shoot SC for a second time.  However Dr Vanezis states:

"Furthermore in my view the second wound taken into consideration with the factors mentioned above must have been within a few seconds of the first wound".

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=205.0;attach=732

So we have the so-called ballistics expert, Malcolm Fletcher, and The Director of Prosecution holding views completely at odds with the pathological evidence. 

A shotgun cartridge is about the size of a small battery.  Approx AA but a bit shorter and wider.  I provided a link to a youtube vid to demo.  Caro has said numerous times she has small hands (in connection with her research into the 'bible/handprint').  Small hands = usually small fingers, so to illustrate the size of .22 in relation to the shotgun cartridge I likened it to the tip of her small finger!
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 03:25:38 PM by Holly Goodhead »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom
« Reply #81 on: May 12, 2016, 02:32:40 PM »
There are too many unlikely events in the pre massacre scene Bamber sets -

He sees rabbitts. Although it's either dark or getting dark.

He decides to go and attempt to shoot them. To benefit the parents he hates ?

He does not attach the silencer. Meaning the rabbits are more likely to disperse upon one shot.

He fully loads the rifle. Although he will only get one realistic shot.

He goes outside and all the rabbits have gone ? Or he saw them and simply didn't fire any bullets.

He didn't take a few seconds to put the rifle back where he found it. Which surely people would do 9 times out of 10. And has never given a reason.

Neville and June either did not see the rifle sprawled across an area they were in. Or did see it and still left it out.

Sheila got the rifle....

If you speak with farmers I think you will find that most of the above are everyday occurrences and nothing out of the ordinary.

If he didn't use the rifle as he said he did what possible advantage was there in saying it?  For those who think JB is guilty I could see an advantage if the firearms and ammo were stored securely but given they were accessible to anyone inside the property then I really struggle to see the point. 

The same applies to the fact he claims he left the rifle out.  It seems obvious to me NB would return it to the den/gun cupboard.  If JB said he left after everyone was in bed and he left the rifle out then this potentially would be different.

 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom
« Reply #82 on: May 12, 2016, 05:58:32 PM »
It gets worse I'm afraid.  The following is from the official police account of how JB killed hiis family.  It's contained in the report to the Director of Public Prosecutions in November 1985, written with a view to having him committed for trial.  Acknowledging that the order of deaths could not be determined with certainty, the report contends that:

"...there were probably ten shots fired in the first fusillade [four into Nevill, one into Sheila and five into June] and the remaining three - two into June's head,one into Sheila's head - were inflicted after Ralph Nevill was killed in the kitchen.  Eight shots were fired into the boys - eight cases were recovered in their bedroom.  Four shots were fired into Ralph Nevill in the kitchen - namely, the two in his temple area andthe two to the top of his head.  Three cartridge cases were recovered in the kitchen.  It is therefore reasonable to assume that the fourth cartridge case was carried on the feet of the killer, or possibly a police officer, and deposited on the stairway."

Even this ill advised account features Nevill being shot 4 times upstairs and the casing being transferred from the kitchen to the landing. It's doesn't help you in any appreciable way.

It is an account from unspecified police not forensic experts. Police stupidly suggested that Jeremy still had 1 bullet left but instead of firing it at Nevill he let Nevill escape downstairs and was unconcerned of his whereabouts.  This is absurd.  The notion he would have no concerns about Nevill calling 999 or grabbing a shotgun and trying to shoot him is absurd.  He could even get out of the house and run for help.  He needed Nevill dead to inherit and also to get away with the other murders. To let Nevill escape so Jeremy could go wake Sheila and drag her to the bedroom to shoot her is nonsense. Aside from it being absurd we know it didn't happen because Nevill would have had several minutes to try to use the phone or arm himself yet he failed to do either. He just went in the kitchen and waited for Jeremy to come fight with him?  Nonsense!  Moreover, Jeremy was scared police would be able to tell who died first and last.  If it were figured out that Sheila died before others that would harm his whole plot of framing her. Moreover, if she died before her kids that would make them the beneficiaries of June and Nevill and their share would go to their father. So he needed Sheila to die last from the inheritance perspective as well as the for the sake of his framing efforts.

The police suggested a number of stupid things in this case that failed to hold up.  It can be chalked up to ignorance or even incompetence.

Most of the shots June suffered were to her right side.  The killer was angled to the right of her as firing the rifle for 6 of the 7 shots.  The bullets traveled right to left in her body. The police recognized the 5 non-head shots were fired in part of the initial burst. 3 of these exited the body into the bed and the other 2 remained in the body but were fired at angles that preclude the killer walking in the room and simply firing straight at her. Moreover, the 2 that remained in her body caused extensive internal bleeding because her heart was still pumping at the time and she was walking around after these 2 shots were fired.

In order to advance their stupid idea that Jeremy let Nevill be for a while and went to get Sheila they suggested that both shots to June's head were both delivered after she was out of bed when the killer returned upstairs. First of all this is a stupid suggestion because if June had not yet suffered a head wound she would not have simply stayed in the bedroom waiting for Jeremy to drag Sheila in and sit there watching him shoot Sheila then to wait for Jeremy to reload and return. She would have left the room like Nevill did. She would have either tried to go help the twins or to help call for help. Worse yet, the blood on her pillow proves June's head was against the pillow while it was bleeding thus she was in bed when shot in the head.

That severe head wound is why June was never able to make it out of the room. She walked to the other side then collapsed before she could make it out.  Jeremy returned and shot her between the eyes to make sure she was dead.  He didn't return and find her collapsed then shoot her in the side of her chest and between her eyes, he simply shot her between her eyes.

Both chest wounds have feature a right to left trajectory. The killer and June were both in about the same place when both shots were fired. One entrance wound was higher than the other so it went right to left through the upper lung lodging in between Thoracic Vertebrae 3 and 4 while the other went through the lower lung lodging in Thoracic Vertebra 9. The killer had to be to the forward right of June to be able to deliver these shots. If June had a clock implanted on the top of her head the killer would be between 7 O'Clock and 8:45.   

This shows how both chest wounds hit the edge of her body:



This shows the approximate location where the shooter would have to be:

 

This trajectory lines up with June being on the bed or next to the bed while the killer was at the foot of the bed. The trajectory is not consistent with someone walking back in the room and shooting June to make sure she is dead only the shot between her eyes is consistent with such.

Time and again I have pointed out that the "WHY" is key.  What people believe is not important at all. What matters is the why.  The why will answer whether the position is credible and supported or not.  That people sometimes advance notions that are not supported and incredible merely means people sometimes advance irrational erroneous things.

A totality of the circumstances analysis takes into account everything that is relevant. It doesn't look at limited points in isolation it looks at everything in complete context. When one does that they with respect to this case in order to assess what happens they are left with the shooter attacking Nevill and June, firing 6 shots into June and 4 into Nevill till the gun is empty, the killer running to the kitchen to reload with Nevill following or Nevill somehow getting past the killer and going to the kitchen to try to arm himself, use the phone or get out the door to go summon help, but the killer pursuing him and preventing him from doing any of these things, the killer knocking Nevill out then reloading and shooting him 4 more times, reloading fully so the gun has 11 rounds then going upstairs and using 1 on June between her eyes to make sure she is dead, 8 on the boys and 2 on Sheila.

That police ignored so many things to make stupid suggestions doesn't make their stupid suggestions logical or possible it just scares one that they can be so inept. That doesn't instill great confidence. The kinds of mistakes they made with regard to analyzing the order of the shots could not only result in criminals getting away but can result in charging an innocent person in some instances.   


“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom
« Reply #83 on: May 12, 2016, 06:32:23 PM »
Oh dear indeed...I assume on this occasion Angelo my post isn't going to get a 'like' from you 8(8-))

I refer to the experts as hopeless for good reason: Malcolm Fletcher and The Director for Public Prosecutions claim JB shot SC once upstairs before going to the kitchen to reload the rifle, shoot NB a further four times, engage in some sort of struggle over the rifle and then return upstairs to shoot SC for a second time.  However Dr Vanezis states:

"Furthermore in my view the second wound taken into consideration with the factors mentioned above must have been within a few seconds of the first wound".

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=205.0;attach=732

So we have the so-called ballistics expert, Malcolm Fletcher, and The Director of Prosecution holding views completely at odds with the pathological evidence. 

A shotgun cartridge is about the size of a small battery.  Approx AA but a bit shorter and wider.  I provided a link to a youtube vid to demo.  Caro has said numerous times she has small hands (in connection with her research into the 'bible/handprint').  Small hands = usually small fingers, so to illustrate the size of .22 in relation to the shotgun cartridge I likened it to the tip of her small finger!

It is at odds with the pathological evidence for additional reasons and worse it is absurd. It is absurd to suggest that Jeremy would let Nevill escape without firing the final shot at him and to leave Nevill alone for several minutes to use the phone or load a shotgun so that Jeremy could grab Sheila and drag her to the bedroom to shoot her as June is still there walking around. 

Not to defend Fletcher since absurd is absurd regardless of passage of time, but after nearly 30 years Fletcher didn't remember the evidence anymore. The Director of Prosecution was not an expert and simply ignorant all the way around.

What I did was to take into account all the evidence. You are busy trashing claims that you admit are wrong instead of dealing with the points I made which was well supported and based on the totality of the evidence. 

The evidence shows the shooter was at the foot of the bed firing at June's right side and Nevill's left. Nevill suffered 4 shots to his left and June 6 to her right. The ten casings associated with these shots were in the bedroom where they would be expected to be based on a shooter being in such position shooting at them.

The 2 parents were the greatest threat hence why they were to be killed first.

His plan of killing them easily didn't work out. Both got up out of bed and after the weapon was empty either either went to try to disarm him with him running away to try to reload or somehow managed to fight past him to get out of the room.  Nevill didn't bleed on the phone so he never got to the phone nor did he manage to get to a shotgun. Either Jeremy was in close pursuit and caught him in the kitchen or Nevill was in close pursuit and caught Jeremy in the kitchen.  Nevill was bashed unconscious so Jeremy could reload safely then he shot Nevill 4 times more. Then he reloaded the magazine fully and went upstairs and fired 8 shots into the boys, 2 into sheila and June in unknown order.

While it has been documented that even after 4 plus shots drawback can still remain in a weapon it is rather unlikely that there would still be the amount of blood near the opening that was present had a sizable number of shots been fired after sheila was killed.  Thus in all likelihood sheila was shot last.  If it could be determined Sheila died before the boys this could ruin him getting the full inheritance and even worse could ruin his efforts to pretend Sheila was the killer.  In addition to such considerations it makes more sense to kill the boys and then deal with sheila so they don't have a chance to wake up and escape if she screams. Whether he shot June between the eyes before or after the boys there is simply no way to know. It is just as logical that such was done after killing the boys as before and the physical evidence shed's no light either. 

Jeremy goes upstairs, checks to make sure June is dead and fires one between her eyes to make sure then goes to kill the boys and then goes to get sheila..

Jeremy goes upstairs and kills the boys then thinks June is still breathing so fires a shot between her eyes then goes to get sheila.

Neither scenario is substantially more likely than the other.
 
It's not impossible that there was substantially more blood in the moderator and that 8-9 shots were fired after Sheila was killed and thus the amount of blood was reduced by the additional shots causing some of the blood to exit but I still think it unlikely there would be blood right inside the opening if that were the case. So in all likelihood based on everything Sheila was shot last.
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline Opal

Re: Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom
« Reply #84 on: May 12, 2016, 07:07:08 PM »
Sorry....wrote the post below before seeing that Scipio had posted....Probably all been discussed before....just my thoughts though.

Lets assume first JB was setting up the murders to point finger at SC

Gun has to be accessible.   Could have been in cupboard but then SC would have to find the right ammo and the right Gun…not a shotgun! SC doesn’t know that much about guns. No problem if gun in cupboard for JB

JB statement about the rabbits gives reason for RIFLE to be in back hall with magazine, so handy for SC! Why not use shotgun to kill rabbits? Regardless if NB put it away if it was left out, the implication of the rifle being left there is set.

More bullets on kitchen top ….  AVAILABLE to SC.  Irrespective of whether this actually happened at the time the seed of doubt is set regarding SC having immediate access to them. JB’s fingerprint was found on Gun….did he know this maybe the case? Another reason for saying he had used the gun himself that day.

SC’ GUILT.

SC goes downstairs and finds rifle in cupboard/ back hall in a hysterical state she calmly loads magazine. Goes upstairs and shoots JB. 6 times we are then to believe NB awakes and is shot 4 times
By the daughter who adored him. Gun now empty. SC returns downstairs with father in pursuit. NB rings JB to say that SC has gone mad…..(but he can’t talk owing to gun shot wounds to jaw!.) In the meantime SC has reloaded the rifle and attacks father……why wouldn’t NB try to get rifle off of her….immobilized? Then how come he supposedly spoke on phone? Perhaps he did! In which case when does NB make the phone call and be able to speak….After she has shot him again?

I personally still think there was an argument that evening at the farm between NB and JB….nothing new there then! The discussion about the twins being fostered made up by JB to give reason for SC’s hysterical behaviour later that night. Strange then is the fact that PB rang farm just before 10 pm spoke to SC who was just off to bed and JB who was also calm.  Three statements by JB all that point to SC committing murders, and all lies!!  I would be interested in other theories.

 



« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 08:41:21 PM by Opal »

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom
« Reply #85 on: May 12, 2016, 09:44:11 PM »
Sorry....wrote the post below before seeing that Scipio had posted....Probably all been discussed before....just my thoughts though.

Lets assume first JB was setting up the murders to point finger at SC

Gun has to be accessible.   Could have been in cupboard but then SC would have to find the right ammo and the right Gun…not a shotgun! SC doesn’t know that much about guns.

JB statement about the rabbits gives reason for RIFLE to be in back hall with magazine, so handy! Why not use shotgun to kill rabbits? Regardless if NB put it away if it was left out, the implication of the rifle being left there is set.

More bullets on kitchen top ….  AVAILABLE to SC.  Irrespective of whether this actually happened at the time the seed of doubt is set regarding SC having immediate access to them. JB’s fingerprint was found on Gun….did he know this maybe the case? Another reason for saying he had used the gun himself that day.

SC’ GUILT.

SC goes downstairs and finds rifle in cupboard/ back hall in a hysterical state she calmly loads magazine. Goes upstairs and shoots JB. 6 times we are then to believe NB awakes and is shot 4 times
By the daughter who adored him. Gun now empty. SC returns downstairs with father in pursuit. NB rings JB to say that SC has gone mad…..(but he can’t talk owing to gun shot wounds to jaw.) In the meantime SC has reloaded the rifle and attacks father……why wouldn’t NB try to get rifle off of her….immobilized? Then how come he supposedly spoke on phone? Perhaps he did! In which case when does NB make the phone call and be able to speak….After she has shot him again?

I personally still think there was an argument that evening at the farm between NB and JB….nothing new there then! The discussion about the twins being fostered made up by JB to give reason for SC’s hysterical behaviour later that night. Strange then is the fact that PB rang farm just before 10 pm spoke to SC who was just off to bed and JB who was also calm.  Three statements by JB all that point to SC committing murders, and all lies!!  I would be interested in other theories.

 

One of Murphy's laws of combat is that no plan survives first contact intact.  First contact is when you first meet the enemy. This is traceable to what von Moltke the elder said which is no battle plan ever survives contact with the enemy. What this means is that a battle plan will never be able to predict every variable and there will always need to be some improvisation based on the conditions encountered.

Jeremy didn't plan for Nevill to escape to the kitchen. He planned to kill both parents in the bedroom. Nevill escaped to the kitchen and he did what he had to do based on the circumstances which was to bash Nevill till he was unconscious so Jeremy would be able to reload and then kill Nevill.

Some of the things Jeremy did for staging purposes were less than clear such as the Bible and marks on Nevill's back. We are at a distinct disadvantage in comprehending what his intentions were because he failed to tell Julie about such things. Prior to the murders he gave her a broad view what his plans were but only some of the finer details. He talking about his plan to say he received a phone call from WHF, using a bike as transport and using the windows but nothing about the order in which he would attack anyone or other very specific details. 

That being the case we can't assess how many things Jeremy improvised at the time based on the circumstances in which he found himself.  Necessity is the mother of invention.

It seems intuitive that if Jeremy managed to kill them in the bedroom he would have restored the phone in order to pretend Nevill used that phone to call Jerey form the bedroom before the shooting started. That Nevill got away to the kitchen wound up causing him not to replace it to give the impression Nevill went to the kitchen and phoned him from there. This minor thing caused great problems. Questions raised by this resulted in Jeremy lying saying the kitchen phone broke though it didn't. It was found hidden and when it was discovered he lied again saying it was just a spare.  Had he been able to replace the phone after the murders then these lies never would have occurred.

That is just one example of how a minor thing you did not plan on can end up biting you in the butt.     
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline Opal

Re: Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom
« Reply #86 on: May 12, 2016, 10:08:15 PM »
I agree, some of JB's statements had to be made up as the events unfurled. He must of made some plans of some sorts on that night though. The phone...here again I agree, I was thinking the phone that was hidden ( and worked perfectly) was in it's correct place in the kitchen that night. Leaving the cream phone up in the bedroom.....Could this have been where June B. was heading before she collapsed? But as Neville was killed in the kitchen Jeremy B had to bring the cream phone downstairs to imply that NB had used it from the kitchen?

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom
« Reply #87 on: May 13, 2016, 01:14:08 AM »
I agree, some of JB's statements had to be made up as the events unfurled. He must of made some plans of some sorts on that night though. The phone...here again I agree, I was thinking the phone that was hidden ( and worked perfectly) was in it's correct place in the kitchen that night. Leaving the cream phone up in the bedroom.....Could this have been where June B. was heading before she collapsed? But as Neville was killed in the kitchen Jeremy B had to bring the cream phone downstairs to imply that NB had used it from the kitchen?

The issues related to the phone are only fully understood by people who study the case in depth.  The bedroom phone was relocated to the kitchen prior to the murders.  A witness (Pike) saw it there on Monday August 5 when he retrieved the cordless phone and phone jack splitter. Jeremy could have hid it earlier that day or sometime over the weekend.  We only know it was by that time that it had been replaced.  The primary reason he didn't want a phone in the bedroom was out of fear that the parents would hear him entering and call the police.  He figured after the murders he could put it back in the bedroom and pretend the call was made from there.  Nevill being killed in the kitchen forced him to not replace the bedroom phone.

There are 2 reasons why he didn't replace it. One is that it would look weird for Nevill to go to the kitchen to use the phone if the bedroom had a phone to use. The second reason is in some ways more significant.  The touchtone phone had a memory function allowing one to discover the last phone number dialed.  I tried to find out whether the function told not only the number but time of the last call but no one has been able to answer that. Materials that describe the phone's function don't tell what the memory does in detail. The rotary phone was basic it had no memory of any kind so there would be no way to disprove Jeremy's claims by testing the phone itself.

Jeremy didn't think anyone would say anything about the phone so didn't worry about it at all and left it hidden in a place where it wound up being found. When it was found it was tested and was found to be working thus proving him a liar about it being broken.  His clumsy way to account for it not being broken was to lie and say it was not the former kitchen phone but rather just a spare.  Wile that kind of a lie could have worked with police because they didn't know any better it failed with the farm secretary and housekeeper because they had personal experience with the phones and knew what it really was.  It just goes to show you how simple details can screw you up.   The bullet issue was rather simple too.   He didn't consider that he had better make sure there were not too many bullets staged or it would make him a liar.  It's easy to miss little things like that.

Not taking the moderator off before shooting Sheila was a huge mistake but he knew nothing about drawback and thus didn't consider the need to remove it prior to shooting her. You only can plan for things you comprehend and know about and you can still forget and mess up in the moment because of stress or changed circumstances.



“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline adam

Re: Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom
« Reply #88 on: May 13, 2016, 04:43:56 AM »
The police version is that on the night Bamber realised the rifle with the silencer on was too long for Sheila to shoot herself. So he took it off. But if he was not aware of back splatter why didn't he just leave the silencer next to Sheila ? Lots of reasons actually and there is a thread on the Blue forum.

However it's just as likely he took the silencer off in the kitchen. Deciding it will be more effective to burn Neville's back with the rifle end minus the silencer. People would then ask why the silencer was in the kitchen but not attached to the rifle ?  So he simply put the silencer away rather than back onto the rifle.

Bamber would be hoping that Neville's burn marks would not be investigated. But if they were and it was determined the marks were made from the end of the rifle minus a silencer (which they were), the police would ask why the rifle had the silencer attached. So he put the silencer away, almost out of site.  Not bothering to clean it as he was not aware of back splatter or expecting the police to take it. They didn't.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 05:05:28 AM by adam »

Offline Myster

Re: Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom
« Reply #89 on: May 13, 2016, 06:37:28 AM »
There is no proof whatsoever the burn marks, if that's what they are, were produced by the rifle. What sort of idiot assassin would waste time heating up the end in the AGA and branding Nevill purely to inflict some sadistic revenge, or even to test if he was dead?... the four bullets to his head were confirmation of that. This was just another misleading ruse created by Bamber's lawyer and supporters to get him released.
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.