Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom

[Holly Goodhead]

It is surprising he went for supper. He had already seen Sheila and the twins. The twins would be in bed at that time anyway. He would have seen Neville on the farm. Maybe he went to see June, who he hated.  Although he did recently claim he was a 'mummies boy'.

Being tired, not living at WHF, already assisting his parents for several hours that day on the farm, not liking his parents, it being dark or getting dark will have all contributed to Bamber not going out to shoot rabbits. Besides which he was hungry and had gone to WHF 'for supper'.

I'm surprised after supper at WHF he went home and had a sandwich and a coke!  A coke contains caffeine and is a stimulant! 

[adam]

There's a reason we have wooden spoons for stirring when cooking and it isn't just so we don't scratch the inside of the pan with a metal spoon.  A metal spoon will heat up very quickly and transfer heat to the hand.  If someone attempted to heat the rifle in or on the Aga would the wooden stock prevent the heat travelling to the persons hand?

I just can't see JB or SC heating the rifle to then apply to NB to check for life.

Heating the nozzle of the rifle on an Aga plate, I very much doubt the heat will transfer several feet to Bamber's hands. If he wasn't wearing gloves he could always use a tea towel.

Neville putting up a tremendous fight for life after being shot four times would have flustered Bamber. He was not expecting this. 

Neville was negated in the kitchen fight but Bamber wanted him dead. So a combination of extra shots and tests for life took place. In what order, no one knows.

[adam]

I'm surprised after supper at WHF he went home and had a sandwich and a coke!  A coke contains caffeine and is a stimulant!

Did he do this ? I thought he had just had supper.

[Holly Goodhead]

Just going back to the burns were they definitely burns as opposed to scorch marks?

Myster, re the OP case and the images you brought up can you remind me please what was being suggested?

- hot casings?

- scorch marks from the skin being caught by force? 

I remember as a child swinging from things and getting marks on my hands which were referred to as burns but these were obviously not from a direct heat source.   

[Holly Goodhead]

Did he do this ? I thought he had just had supper.

Yes he states in his WS and in the Daily Mirror audio clip he made a sandwich and had a coke but young men do tend to have quite an appetite especially if their work is physical. 

[Holly Goodhead]

Heating the nozzle of the rifle on an Aga plate, I very much doubt the heat will transfer several feet to Bamber's hands. If he wasn't wearing gloves he could always use a tea towel.

Neville putting up a tremendous fight for life after being shot four times would have flustered Bamber. He was not expecting this. 

Neville was negated in the kitchen fight but Bamber wanted him dead. So a combination of extra shots and tests for life took place. In what order, no one knows.

But if the perp went to these lengths to ensure NB was dead why not do the same with the other victims?  What made the perp need to single out NB?

[Holly Goodhead]

Yea... the most he would have got was a boiled bunny, whereas he ended up being shopped by a bunny boiler.

Likes gratefully accepted. 

You've now got twice as many likes as me 

As of yesterday Mercury had the most likes.  He has reached triple numbers. 

[Holly Goodhead]

Just going back to the burns were they definitely burns as opposed to scorch marks?

Myster, re the OP case and the images you brought up can you remind me please what was being suggested?

- hot casings?

- scorch marks from the skin being caught by force? 

I remember as a child swinging from things and getting marks on my hands which were referred to as burns but these were obviously not from a direct heat source.   

It has just come to me...I was thinking of friction burns.  Could the burn marks be from friction as opposed to heat?

[Holly Goodhead]

It has just come to me...I was thinking of friction burns.  Could the burn marks be from friction as opposed to heat?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friction_burn

[Myster]

Just going back to the burns were they definitely burns as opposed to scorch marks?

Myster, re the OP case and the images you brought up can you remind me please what was being suggested?

- hot casings?

- scorch marks from the skin being caught by force? 

I remember as a child swinging from things and getting marks on my hands which were referred to as burns but these were obviously not from a direct heat source.   

The prosecution thought they were burn marks caused by a hot bullet which missed, but then bounced off the tiled wall behind Reeva as she was facing the toilet door and landed somewhere on her back.

The defence said they were bruises caused when she fell back onto a wooden magazine rack which Pistorius stored in the toilet.

Two amateur sleuths recently decided they were bruises inflicted by the end of a cricket back before she was intentionally shot.

Regarding Nevill's back, I had the idea they might be burns from a single red-hot casing which ricocheted off the wall where the AGA was, or off the mantleshelf, got trapped underneath his pyjama top for a second or two to create the largest burn, then skipped down a bit further to make the smaller ones. The problem is... the size of the largest circle-shaped burn at around 10mm+ dia, whereas the flange end of the casing is only 7mm dia, although a burn might spread out depending on how long it's in contact with the skin.

Or they might have been done during the day, say if they were burning rubbish outside and a stray spark flew out and landed on his nape. The farm near to where I live are always having wood fires in fine weather, the last one only a couple of days ago.

I don't think they're friction burns in that unusual position.

[Myster]

You've now got twice as many likes as me 

As of yesterday Mercury had the most likes.  He has reached triple numbers.

He's a she, formerly known as something similar to your avatar pic.

[John]

It is surprising he went for supper. He had already seen Sheila and the twins. The twins would be in bed at that time anyway. He would have seen Neville on the farm. Maybe he went to see June, who he hated.  Although he did recently claim he was a 'mummies boy'.

Being tired, not living at WHF, already assisting his parents for several hours that day on the farm, not liking his parents, it being dark or getting dark will have all contributed to Bamber not going out to shoot rabbits. Besides which he was hungry and had gone to WHF 'for supper'.

Maybe he took the chance to drop a couple of sleeping pills into the children's cocoa?

[John]

If you speak with farmers I think you will find that most of the above are everyday occurrences and nothing out of the ordinary.

If he didn't use the rifle as he said he did what possible advantage was there in saying it?  For those who think JB is guilty I could see an advantage if the firearms and ammo were stored securely but given they were accessible to anyone inside the property then I really struggle to see the point. 

The same applies to the fact he claims he left the rifle out.  It seems obvious to me NB would return it to the den/gun cupboard.  If JB said he left after everyone was in bed and he left the rifle out then this potentially would be different.

Another thing worth considering is whether Jeremy would really shoot bunnies with the children being around?  I can't see Nevill allowing it.

[John]

The evidence shows the shooter was at the foot of the bed firing at June's right side and Nevill's left. Nevill suffered 4 shots to his left and June 6 to her right. The ten casings associated with these shots were in the bedroom where they would be expected to be based on a shooter being in such position shooting at them.

The 2 parents were the greatest threat hence why they were to be killed first.

His plan of killing them easily didn't work out. Both got up out of bed and after the weapon was empty either either went to try to disarm him with him running away to try to reload or somehow managed to fight past him to get out of the room.  Nevill didn't bleed on the phone so he never got to the phone nor did he manage to get to a shotgun. Either Jeremy was in close pursuit and caught him in the kitchen or Nevill was in close pursuit and caught Jeremy in the kitchen.  Nevill was bashed unconscious so Jeremy could reload safely then he shot Nevill 4 times more. Then he reloaded the magazine fully and went upstairs and fired 8 shots into the boys, 2 into sheila and June in unknown order.

While it has been documented that even after 4 plus shots drawback can still remain in a weapon it is rather unlikely that there would still be the amount of blood near the opening that was present had a sizable number of shots been fired after sheila was killed.  Thus in all likelihood sheila was shot last.  If it could be determined Sheila died before the boys this could ruin him getting the full inheritance and even worse could ruin his efforts to pretend Sheila was the killer.  In addition to such considerations it makes more sense to kill the boys and then deal with sheila so they don't have a chance to wake up and escape if she screams. Whether he shot June between the eyes before or after the boys there is simply no way to know. It is just as logical that such was done after killing the boys as before and the physical evidence shed's no light either. 

Jeremy goes upstairs, checks to make sure June is dead and fires one between her eyes to make sure then goes to kill the boys and then goes to get sheila..

Jeremy goes upstairs and kills the boys then thinks June is still breathing so fires a shot between her eyes then goes to get sheila.

The only part of that I cannot sympathise with is the four shots in the kitchen claim. It cannot be established beyond doubt that all four shots occurred in the kitchen since one empty casing associated with those shots was found at the foot of the stairs.  That would suggest several possible scenarios.

1. Nevill was shot four times in the kitchen but one casing got carried in someone's boot to the stairs.

2. Nevill was shot by someone higher up the stairs as he made his way downstairs.

3. Nevill was shot by someone standing near the bottom of the stairs as he made his way downstairs.

[John]

But if the perp went to these lengths to ensure NB was dead why not do the same with the other victims?  What made the perp need to single out NB?

I suggest it could have been a crazed form of control over his victim.  One thing about the Aga though, it was coal fired and even if lit would have been turned right down overnight. There would be little heat generated in that state imo.  Did the forensics expert per chance note any discoloration of the rifle barrel which would indicate heat had been applied to it externally?