If Maddie may still be alive...what did the dog's alert to.

[Mr Gray]

Neither you nor I were party to what was being said behind the scenes.  In particular, what was being discussed on telephone calls between the FSS and the Portuguese Police.  What is clear however is that there were many ambiguities in relation to the DNA results, a problem which appears to have plagued the FSS and eventually led to the decision to dismantle it a mere three years after Madeleine disappeared.

Whether Amaral may or may not have misunderstood what he was being told is neither here nor there.  The point is that this should never have happened, incompetence and failures all round imo. No wonder the FSS was later closed down!


The FSS suffered damage to its reputation following the failure to recover blood stains from a shoe in the murder of Damilola Taylor.   Further damage occurred when the FSS failed to use the most up-to-date techniques for extracting DNA samples in cases between 2000 and 2005.  This led the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) to advise all police forces in England and Wales to review cases where samples had failed to give a DNA profile.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forensic_Science_Service

what languages were used in these phone calls ......portuguese or english.....if they took place. There were absolutely no ambiguities in the dna results...the FSS was not closed down due to any failings it was totally on costs basis. Lots of speculation yet you use the word definitely.
The FSS developed  LCN DNA analysis...they were an extremely competent lab. They made a mistake in the DT case.....who doesnt make mistakes. Your next statement is totally incorrect....the review of cases was based on the reliability of LCN DNA in light of the court verdict in the Omagh bombings....nothing to do with the FSS incompetence but the interpretation of LCN results..your criticism of the FSS is out of order...innaccurate and probably libellous

[Mr Gray]

the reason the FSS closed was that it was a govt run lab and made a 2 million pound loss...work is now contracted out to the private sector

The UK Government announced the closure of the FSS in December 2010, citing monthly losses of up to £2m as justification.

[ChloeR]

Not sure which part was ridiculous Chloe.  Was it the fact this witness came forward or the fact he kept his daughters clothes for all these years?  In respect of the latter, I have clothing which my children wore twenty years ago so I don't find that bit odd at all.

Someone coming forward after so many years, knowing exactly what he was wearing one night years back, and that he hadnt realized all of this time that HE was who the world was looking for...its just unrealistic :p

[xtina]

Manuel Rodrigues - Pure naivety. In a first moment 15 alleles of a series of 19 appear, that constituted Maddie's DNA, and in a second report those 15 alleles had completely vanished, there was no longer any DNA of the girl present in there.

one of G A biggest regrets was trusting...british fss/birmingham ...sending them there in the first place

but there you are at the time he thought they were all wanting the same thing ...

the truth of what happened ...you know as the police usually do ............work together ...but there you go ...they didn't

[Mr Gray]

Manuel Rodrigues - Pure naivety. In a first moment 15 alleles of a series of 19 appear, that constituted Maddie's DNA, and in a second report those 15 alleles had completely vanished, there was no longer any DNA of the girl present in there.

one of G A biggest regrets was trusting...british fss/birmingham ...sending them there in the first place

but there you are at the time he thought they were all wanting the same thing ...

the truth of what happened ...you know as the police usually do ............work together ...but there you go ...they didn't

the 15 alleles are still there ..they never disappeared...you are repeating claptrap propaganda

[jassi]

what languages were used in these phone calls ......portuguese or english.....if they took place.there were absolutely no ambiguities in the dna results...the FSS was not closed down due to any failings it was totally on costs basis. Lots of speculation yet you use the word defuinitely.
The FSS developed  LCN DNA analysis...they were an extremely competent lab. They made a mistake in the DT case.....who doesnt make mistakes. Your next statement is totally incorrect....the review oif cases was based on the reliability of LCN DNA in light of the court verdict in the Omagh bombings.nothing to do with the FSS incompetence but the interpretation of LCN results..your criticism of the FSS is out of order...innaccurate and probably libellous

Can you libel a defunct organisation?

[ferryman]

Can you libel a defunct organisation?

Individuals (named and identified) within the organisation, you certainly can, whether the organisation itself exists or not (provided the people concerned are still alive).

I believe, in Portugal, you can actually defame the dead.

Although I am beginning to wonder whether Portugal has libel laws (worthy of the name).

[Brietta]

The dogs' indications are relevant only if evidence is recovered from the areas alerted to ... and uncorroborated statements from unidentified individuals in a propaganda video have as little value as a VRD throwing a child's cuddly toy around as a plaything. Both require a suspension of disbelief.   

[ferryman]

The dogs' indications are relevant only if evidence is recovered from the areas alerted to ... and uncorroborated statements from unidentified individuals in a propaganda video have as little value as a VRD throwing a child's cuddly toy around as a plaything. Both require a suspension of disbelief.

But we aren't allowed to add, also a questioning of the competence of the handler (I don't think) ....

[mercury]

But we aren't allowed to add, also a questioning of the competence of the handler (I don't think) ....

How long do UK  incompetent police officers stay on in a force then? Do you know how many years grime served as a policeman/dog handler? Youre a glutton for punishment, people say you have an agenda, i never took too much notice of it, but its soooo obvious now, a real tangible agenda, not one of just of personal opinion, do you deny it? good luck

Apart from all that you have NO IDEA if grime is competent or not and also have NO IDEA how his dogs were trained so that makes your posts laymans guesses and accusations at best, ie you have no knowledge or authority to state anything you think at all as fact

[Admin]

How long do UK  incompetent police officers stay on in a force then? Do you know how many years grime served as a policeman/dog handler? Youre a glutton for punishment, people say you have an agenda, i never took too much notice of it, but its soooo obvious now, a real tangible agenda, not one of just of personal opinion, do you deny it? good luck

Apart from all that you have NO IDEA if grime is competent or not and also have NO IDEA how his dogs were trained so that makes your posts laymans guesses and accusations at best, ie you have no knowledge or authority to state anything you think at all as fact

For an 'incompetent handler' he has certainly carved out a lucrative career for himself in the USA and is extremely well thought of by the FBI and many other police authorities as well as the California Narcotic Canine Association. His contribution to the CSI canine industry has been huge.

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/martin-grime-9724a78
http://www.gssi.uk.com/en/ourservices

[ferryman]

How long do UK  incompetent police officers stay on in a force then? Do you know how many years grime served as a policeman/dog handler? Youre a glutton for punishment, people say you have an agenda, i never took too much notice of it, but its soooo obvious now, a real tangible agenda, not one of just of personal opinion, do you deny it? good luck

Apart from all that you have NO IDEA if grime is competent or not and also have NO IDEA how his dogs were trained so that makes your posts laymans guesses and accusations at best, ie you have no knowledge or authority to state anything you think at all as fact

Why do you think Grime considered Eddie needed two stabs to (apparently) detect a scent on the same clothing in two separate inspections and in two separate locations?

With the death scent readily cross-transferable (immediately upon contact of one item with a surface or another item) why was clothing (already inspected in the villa without result) transported in bog-standard cardboard boxes to the gym (for a second!) inspection?

How can any of that be described as competent?

Do you have a better explanation than: dogs can't read for the findMadeleine stickers in the back of the Renaullt Scenic?

[ferryman]

For an 'incompetent handler' he has certainly carved out a lucrative career for himself in the USA and is extremely well thought of by the FBI and many other police authorities. His contribution to the CSI canine industry has been huge.

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/martin-grime-9724a78

Is that why, these days, he confines himself to a local dog-training club in Oxford?

[Admin]

Why do you think Grime considered Eddie needed two stabs to (apparently) detect a scent on the same clothing in two separate inspections and in two separate locations?

With the death scent readily cross-transferable (immediately upon contact of one item with a surface or another item) why was clothing (already inspected in the villa without result) transported in bog-standard cardboard boxes to the gym (for a second! inspection?

How can any of that be described as competent?

Do you have a better explanation than: dogs can't read for the findMadeleine stickers in the back of the Renaullt Scenic?

I'm sorry ferryman but you cannot lay the blame for that at Grime's door.  The PJ had the responsibility of providing premises, transporting the items and laying them out.  Grime's job was to deploy the dogs, nothing else.  You will be claiming next that he should have driven the cars to the car park too.

[mercury]

For an 'incompetent handler' he has certainly carved out a lucrative career for himself in the USA and is extremely well thought of by the FBI and many other police authorities. His contribution to the CSI canine industry has been huge.

Iirc he was  in the force about 27 years and as you say his resume experience and reputation bears him out, funny how (well not really) just a few people are traducing (to use the latest fashionable phrase)him

It WAS the british police who aided the portuguese
It WAS the british mark harrison who was brought in and suggested testing the tapas 9 houses and cars
It WAS a british police dog expert brought in to find remnant scent of death
But it seems the portuguese got it all wrong /wanted to frame the mccanns/PLUS, just in case they didnt, ...next stop, mr grime was corrupt/out to make his new career on fixed coerced alerts/ should tell you everything

Bloody pathetic