Libel ....

[Brietta]

The McCanns have not established the untruth of the theorem in Amaral's book, for the simple reason they never needed to.

The judgement is clear, and available to anyone who wants to read it.

Amaral was permitted leeway because the McCanns had already given up any right to privacy, and so he was entitled to promote a theory that varied from the McCanns theory.  Neither Amaral's theory nor the McCanns theory has been proved or disproved, otherwise we would be a long way further in the case than we are.

Nevertheless there was no recognition of the involuntary nature of the McCann's loss of privacy in the success of the appeal which suggests to me the ignorance of the appeal court judges to the importance of immediate publicity when a child goes missing whether in suspicious circumstances or just lost.

[G-Unit]

Nevertheless there was no recognition of the involuntary nature of the McCann's loss of privacy in the success of the appeal which suggests to me the ignorance of the appeal court judges to the importance of immediate publicity when a child goes missing whether in suspicious circumstances or just lost.

Do the Portuguese subscribe to the idea of immediate publicity being important? If not, then the McCanns loss of privacy will be seen as voluntary.

[ferryman]

No it doesn't.

So what does it do, then?

[ShiningInLuz]

Nevertheless there was no recognition of the involuntary nature of the McCann's loss of privacy in the success of the appeal which suggests to me the ignorance of the appeal court judges to the importance of immediate publicity when a child goes missing whether in suspicious circumstances or just lost.

You may have lost me, but I'll have a stab at responding to this anyway.

There are at two quite separate issues here.

One is best procedure in a missing child case, and I'd rather not debate what best practice was in 2007.

The relevant issue is that the incident occurred in Portugal and consequently was subject to Portuguese law.  This happens to impose conditions, one being no media.  Kate's book made clear media was discussed with the first PJ team, who insisted there was to be no leak to the media.

And members of the Tapas 9 decided they knew better than the PJ so before the group gave first interviews, the media circus was in town.

I have never seen a suggestion the story was first leaked to the media by the Portuguese police, irrespective of what happened later.  The simple fact is the genie could not be put back into the lamp.

And that means the police were working in totally unfamiliar mode, so we are never going to find out what would have happened if normal procedure had been applied.

[ferryman]

The McCanns have not established the untruth of the theorem in Amaral's book, for the simple reason they never needed to.

The judgement is clear, and available to anyone who wants to read it.

Amaral was permitted leeway because the McCanns had already given up any right to privacy, and so he was entitled to promote a theory that varied from the McCanns theory.  Neither Amaral's theory nor the McCanns theory has been proved or disproved, otherwise we would be a long way further in the case than we are.

Alright, the Portuguese prosecutors have:

The parents didn't even represent the realisation of the fact, they trusted that everything would go well, as it had gone on the previous evenings, thus not equating, nor was it demanded from them, the possibility of the occurrence of an abduction of any of the children that were in their respective apartments.

Reinforcing what was said is also the fact that despite leaving their daughter alone with her siblings in the apartment during more or less dilated moments, it is certain that in any case they checked on them. Without any pretension or compensatory effect, we must also recognise that the parents already expiate a heavy penalty - the disappearance of Madeleine - due to their lack of caution in the surveillance and protection of their children.

Concerning the other indicated crimes, they are no more than that and despite our perception that, due to its high degree of probability, the occurrence of a homicide cannot be discarded, such cannot be more than a mere supposition, due to the lack of sustaining elements in the files.

The McCanns (to prove their own innocence, in separate, civil, libel proceedings) surely need do no more than cite the words of the Prosecutors who dropped their arguido statuses as the climax of a police investigation that accused them (short of actual charges) of murdering their daughter.

Would you not agree?

[ShiningInLuz]

Alright, the Portuguese prosecutors have:

The parents didn't even represent the realisation of the fact, they trusted that everything would go well, as it had gone on the previous evenings, thus not equating, nor was it demanded from them, the possibility of the occurrence of an abduction of any of the children that were in their respective apartments.

Reinforcing what was said is also the fact that despite leaving their daughter alone with her siblings in the apartment during more or less dilated moments, it is certain that in any case they checked on them. Without any pretension or compensatory effect, we must also recognise that the parents already expiate a heavy penalty - the disappearance of Madeleine - due to their lack of caution in the surveillance and protection of their children.

Concerning the other indicated crimes, they are no more than that and despite our perception that, due to its high degree of probability, the occurrence of a homicide cannot be discarded, such cannot be more than a mere supposition, due to the lack of sustaining elements in the files.

The McCanns (to prove their own innocence, in separate, civil, libel proceedings) surely need do no more than cite the words of the Prosecutors who dropped their arguido statuses as the climax of a police investigation that accused them (short of actual charges) of murdering their daughter.

Would you not agree?

No.

The archiving report mentions homicide as one possibility.  it does not say that a killer had to be one of the McCanns but leaves open the alternatives.

And if the archiving report had made the suggestion that the McCanns probably committed homicide, the damages trial would have been against the report author, not Amaral.

[ferryman]

No.

The archiving report mentions homicide as one possibility.  it does not say that a killer had to be one of the McCanns but leaves open the alternatives.

And if the archiving report had made the suggestion that the McCanns probably committed homicide, the damages trial would have been against the report author, not Amaral.

No.  In Portugal (as in England) anything said within the confines of a police investigation is absolutely protected against action in libel (there is similar protection, in England and Portugal, for statements made in court; also (in England), for Members of Parliament speaking from the House of Commons (don't know if Portuguese government officials are afforded the same protection).

The archiving dispatch makes plain that there was no basis of accusation against the McCanns.

The investigation (initially) didn't either. 

The enquiry became a murder enquiry from the point of the arrival of the English because the Portuguese had (by then) exhausted their (genuinely valiant) efforts to try to find Madeleine alive.

At that stage, however, the focus was not on the McCanns or their friends (at least officially, even though Amaral insists the McCanns were suspects from the very beginning).

But then suspicion fell on the McCanns.

[John]

No.  In Portugal (as in England) anything said within the confines of a police investigation is absolutely protected against action in libel (there is similar protection, in England and Portugal, for statements made in court; also (in England), for Members of Parliament speaking from the House of Commons (don't know if Portuguese government officials are afforded the same protection).

The archiving dispatch makes plain that there was no basis of accusation against the McCanns.

The investigation (initially) didn't either. 

The enquiry became a murder enquiry from the point of the arrival of the English because the Portuguese had (by then) exhausted their (genuinely valiant) efforts to try to find Madeleine alive.

At that stage, however, the focus was not on the McCanns or their friends (at least officially, even though Amaral insists the McCanns were suspects from the very beginning).

But then the reactions of the dogs were mangled and misinterpreted and suspicion fell on the McCanns.

The investigation in the early stages was never a murder inquiry ferryman.  Just as it was in 2007/2008, SY is pursuing all possibilities, it remains a missing person investigation since no evidence has ever been found to call it anything else.

[ferryman]

The investigation in the early stages was never a murder inquiry ferryman. It was an abduction and/or an accidental death investigation.

Depends which early stages you are talking about?

If you mean the investigation before the arrival of the English, yes!

But after, it became a murder enquiry.

Read Mark Harrison's report.

It's all in there.

[John]

Depends which early stages you are talking about?

If you mean the investigation before the arrival of the English, yes!

But after, it became a murder enquiry.

Read Mark Harrison's report.

It's all in there.

Harrison said it was a possibility, nothing more.

[ferryman]

Harrison said it was a possibility, nothing more.

Harrison said nothing of the kind.

Harrison was handed a brief by the PJ to investigate that Madeleine had been murdered and worked to it.

[mercury]

Harrison said nothing of the kind.

Harrison was handed a brief by the PJ to investigate that Madeleine had been murdered and worked to it.

This report has highlighted the extensive and professional efforts made by the Portuguese authorities regarding the search to locate Madeleine McCann alive. It has now begun to consider further opportunities to re search locations in order to address the possibility that she has been murdered and concealed nearby. This would be a proportionate and appropriate response given the elapsed time since her disappearance and previous experience in such similar cases. Should the investigators wish to discuss and develop the issues raised

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm

!

[Miss Taken Identity]

This report has highlighted the extensive and professional efforts made by the Portuguese authorities regarding the search to locate Madeleine McCann alive. It has now begun to consider further opportunities to re search locations in order to address the possibility that she has been murdered and concealed nearby. This would be a proportionate and appropriate response given the elapsed time since her disappearance and previous experience in such similar cases. Should the investigators wish to discuss and develop the issues raised

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm

!

It is not unreasonable for a police service to investigate all possibilities, if stranger abduction was a serious contender then murder would be considrered, as it can be a paedophile ritual  to rape and throw away...we see that in a lot of cases.

[mercury]

It is not unreasonable for a police service to investigate all possibilities, if stranger abduction was a serious contender then murder would be considrered, as it can be a paedophile ritual  to rape and throw away...we see that in a lot of cases.

G
Of course it is not unreasonable its their duty
Seems the Pj are being lambasted for doing their job
They did it, they presented their evidence, and the final report and prosecutors report said " we dunno"


Ergo the mccanns had never been cleared
But the brigish media Said they were
But the britsh media is just media, they report they speculate and they change are very ephemiral they are the absolute its sometimes but they are great other times

[Brietta]

G
Of course it is not unreasonable its their duty
Seems the Pj are being lambasted for doing their job
They did it, they presented their evidence, and the final report and prosecutors report said " we dunno"


Ergo the mccanns had never been cleared
But the brigish media Said they were
But the britsh media is just media, they report they speculate and they change are very ephemiral they are the absolute its sometimes but they are great other times

Has Robert Murat been cleared?  Yes he has.
When was his arguido status lifted?  at the same time as that of the McCanns.

Think of the arguido status as the equivalent of being questioned under caution.  They were not charged with any offence ... therefore they have been cleared.