Was there any info in JM's testimony corroborated and unknown to others?

[Holly Goodhead]

Answers on a small postcard please....


24

[scipio_usmc]

Answers on a small postcard please....

The blood in the moderator is an example of corroborating evidence because it corroborates Sheila was murdered and yet framed.  This supports her account that Jeremy said he was going to kill everyone and frame sheila.

Her account that Jeremy told her he was considering using a bike and going to do a test run on a bike was corroborated by him taking June's bike shortly before the murders. Apparently he did do a test run with it.

Saying it is possible that after the murders she conspired with the family and they told her about Jeremy using the windows to enter and the kitchen window being able to be locked from the outside and she then made up the lie that Jeremy told her he planned to use the windows means nothing.  Something being theoretically possible is not enough to defeat such evidence.  You need to prove that they did conspire with her and that she did make it up in order to get people to discount her claims.  If she conspired with them then she should have said the kitchen window. She said she didn't know which window it was that Jeremy told her was defective. Either he didn't tell her or she didn't pay careful attention and forgot. This doesn't in any way help support that she was lying if anything this cuts against it.

In a he said she said the most important thing is whether you can come up with evidence that proves the person is lying or making claims that are impossible and thus clearly erroneous. There is nothing that proves Julie was lying or unintentionally wrong. 

Evaluating credibility of claims involves looking at the entire ball of wax including whether there would be a reason to lie. She had no motive to make up Jeremy telling her he hired a hitman let alone to name one who would be able to prove the claim false nor did police have any reason to get her to say such a lie.  In contrast Jeremy did have reasons to make up such lie.  This favors Julie telling the truth about such. While this in cont corroboration in the traditional sense it is validation anyway.

The key question is can anyone prove Jeremy didn't tell Julie the things she claimed he said. 

[adam]

Answers on a small postcard please....

You know that Bamber in his police interviews said everything Julie said was true. Except the bits about him being involved.

A lot of her WS can be backed up with other witnesses.

Her WS also includes 14 things she would only get from Bamber.

Threads created.

[Holly Goodhead]

So far no one has come up with any info in JM's testimony that was corroborated and unknown to others.

[Caroline]

Because Jeremy told her what happened - or what he wanted her to know/think.

[david1819]

So far no one has come up with any info in JM's testimony that was corroborated and unknown to others.

That's because there is nothing in JMs testimony


The bible on her chest can be traced back to Ann Eaton hand written notes and RBs diary
Sheila's body on the bed can be traced back to Ann Eaton hand written notes and RBs diary
The Bicycle can be traced back to RBs diary
Using the Kitchen Windows can be traced back to RBs diary
Getting Shelia's fingerprints on the rifle and magazine can be traced back to RBs diary
The erroneous number of times Neville was shot can be traced back to the newspapers
The idea of Jeremy having assistance on the night can be traced back to RBs diary
The payment of £2000 can be traced back to RBs diary
The idea of Mathew Macdonald being a Hitman can be traced back to himself spreading rumors
RBs theory of Jeremy using a wetsuit can be found in Julies in diary.

All this does is corroborate the idea that Julie was a puppet and overwhelmingly so

[Caroline]

That's because there is nothing in JMs testimony


The bible on her chest can be traced back to Ann Eaton hand written notes and RBs diary and to the police who mentioned it the day after the murders at Jeremy's cottage - or even Julie because Ann sais it could have come from her!
Sheila's body on the bed can be traced back to Ann Eaton hand written notes and RBs diary Or to the police the day after the murders and also the newspapers.
The Bicycle can be traced back to RBs diary - but it was in Jeremy's back yard also
Using the Kitchen Windows can be traced back to RBs diary - and Jeremy could also have used the window and told Julie himself.
Getting Shelia's fingerprints on the rifle and magazine can be traced back to RBs diary - 'A' fingerprint was on it, but yo would expect more if she had fired all of those shots!
The erroneous number of times Neville was shot can be traced back to the newspapers - Julie could have gotten that from the newspapers, BUT Jeremy probably didn't know how many shits he fired into his father.
The idea of Jeremy having assistance on the night can be traced back to RBs diary - ??
The payment of £2000 can be traced back to RBs diary - He was talking about the New Zealand trip which was years before/ You're not trying to suggest that RB would think he still had the 2 grand to pay a hit man?
The idea of Mathew Macdonald being a Hitman can be traced back to himself spreading rumors  - he didn't spread rumours about bing a hit man at all. The gossip was that he was a mercenary and he did nothing to dispell them. Pretty poor attempt to find a place for MM in your theory!
RBs theory of Jeremy using a wetsuit can be found in Julies in diary. She made a list of things to consider - Jones no doubt mentioned it to her -she made no mention of the wet suit in her statements.

All this does is corroborate the idea that Julie was a puppet and overwhelmingly so. Only in your mind and you have to twist things to make them TRY and fit.

[scipio_usmc]

That's because there is nothing in JMs testimony


The bible on her chest can be traced back to Ann Eaton hand written notes and RBs diary
Sheila's body on the bed can be traced back to Ann Eaton hand written notes and RBs diary
The Bicycle can be traced back to RBs diary
Using the Kitchen Windows can be traced back to RBs diary
Getting Shelia's fingerprints on the rifle and magazine can be traced back to RBs diary
The erroneous number of times Neville was shot can be traced back to the newspapers
The idea of Jeremy having assistance on the night can be traced back to RBs diary
The payment of £2000 can be traced back to RBs diary
The idea of Mathew Macdonald being a Hitman can be traced back to himself spreading rumors
RBs theory of Jeremy using a wetsuit can be found in Julies in diary.

All this does is corroborate the idea that Julie was a puppet and overwhelmingly so

None of it suggests she was a puppet, your claims as always are totally devoid of logic.  That 2 people had similar ideas in no way indicates they can't have come up with the ideas separately and one must have gotten the idea from the other.  If anything it is the opposite of what you claim.

The evidence is that RWB's diary was written after Julie went to police.  Because Julie went to police family members were going to be re-interviewed. In order to aid him during his interview Boutflour wrote notes which was later referred to as his diary though this is a misnomer. Someone thinking logically would not be arguing that Julie got her information from a diary written after she spoke to police.  I pointed out to you the illogic of such claim in the past but you choose to live in denial and to reiterate such illogical claim anyway.

In the past I explained about how your claims about the Bible is particularly illogical but par for the course you hid from me rather than to respond which you are apt to do so you can repeat the same disproved claims over and over with the pretense they were never dispatched.   The press erroneously reported that the Bible was found on Sheila's chest and Ann repeated this falsehood to RWB.  As a result RWB thought it was found on her chest and wrote in his notes that on Aug 11 he came up with a notion of how Jeremy committed the murders which featured Jeremy placing the Bible on her chest before she was shot.  The family was subsequently told the Bible was not on her chest the press claim was false.  If Julie was in heavy contact with the family and was conspiring with them then she would have known the Bible wasn't found on her chest and thus not make up a lie that Jeremy told her the hitman put it on her chest after she was shot. So this actually speaks against her speaking to the family because it means the family didn't tell her the press claim was false.  Things illustrate the complete opposite of what you claim. Moreover, she said he told her the bible was placed there after she was shot not before like RWB envisioned early on.

Let's look at another issue- the windows. It is undisputed that in the past Jeremy and other family members used the windows to enter and thus that they were all aware the windows could be used for entry.  The family members were also aware that the kitchen window could be locked from the outside.  The extended family was told of both issues and in turn they told police such in August.  Jeremy was aware of such and thus clearly could have been the one who told Julie as she claimed.  While the family knew it was the kitchen window that could be locked from the outside Julie was unsure which window it was.  She said that Jeremy told her one of the windows was defective but she didn't know which one because either he failed to specify or she didn't pay close enough attention to what he was telling her.  If the family was the source then surely she would have identified the kitchen window as the one.

While your illogical argument hold up in your mind they objectively fail when scrutinized.

[david1819]

None of it suggests she was a puppet, your claims as always are totally devoid of logic.  That 2 people had similar ideas in no way indicates they can't have come up with the ideas separately and one must have gotten the idea from the other.  If anything it is the opposite of what you claim.

The evidence is that RWB's diary was written after Julie went to police.  Because Julie went to police family members were going to be re-interviewed. In order to aid him during his interview Boutflour wrote notes which was later referred to as his diary though this is a misnomer. Someone thinking logically would not be arguing that Julie got her information from a diary written after she spoke to police.  I pointed out to you the illogic of such claim in the past but you choose to live in denial and to reiterate such illogical claim anyway.

In the past I explained about how your claims about the Bible is particularly illogical but par for the course you hid from me rather than to respond which you are apt to do so you can repeat the same disproved claims over and over with the pretense they were never dispatched.   The press erroneously reported that the Bible was found on Sheila's chest and Ann repeated this falsehood to RWB.  As a result RWB thought it was found on her chest and wrote in his notes that on Aug 11 he came up with a notion of how Jeremy committed the murders which featured Jeremy placing the Bible on her chest before she was shot.  The family was subsequently told the Bible was not on her chest the press claim was false.  If Julie was in heavy contact with the family and was conspiring with them then she would have known the Bible wasn't found on her chest and thus not make up a lie that Jeremy told her the hitman put it on her chest after she was shot. So this actually speaks against her speaking to the family because it means the family didn't tell her the press claim was false.  Things illustrate the complete opposite of what you claim. Moreover, she said he told her the bible was placed there after she was shot not before like RWB envisioned early on.

Let's look at another issue- the windows. It is undisputed that in the past Jeremy and other family members used the windows to enter and thus that they were all aware the windows could be used for entry.  The family members were also aware that the kitchen window could be locked from the outside.  The extended family was told of both issues and in turn they told police such in August.  Jeremy was aware of such and thus clearly could have been the one who told Julie as she claimed.  While the family knew it was the kitchen window that could be locked from the outside Julie was unsure which window it was.  She said that Jeremy told her one of the windows was defective but she didn't know which one because either he failed to specify or she didn't pay close enough attention to what he was telling her.  If the family was the source then surely she would have identified the kitchen window as the one.

While your illogical argument hold up in your mind they objectively fail when scrutinized.

Seriously Skip you should know better than this.

Just for the record Robert Boulflour's diary entries are dated BEFORE Julie came forward and Ann Eatons notes are written and dated BEFORE Julie came forward.

If this sort of thing happened in a case you were handling you wouldn't use such a blatantly inauthentic witness and you know it.

[david1819]

and to the police who mentioned it the day after the murders at Jeremy's cottage - or even Julie because Ann sais it could have come from her! Ann wrote down in her notes she got it from the police, She admitted this at trial. 

Or to the police the day after the murders and also the newspapers.so much for Jeremy's detailed confession

but it was in Jeremy's back yard also Makes no difference, Its not unique information.

and Jeremy could also have used the window and told Julie himself. Still Makes no difference, Its not unique information only the killer would know and what are chances of JM happening to confirm most of RB theories?

 'A' fingerprint was on it, but yo would expect more if she had fired all of those shots! Beside the point how did Julie get Jeremy to confess this exact theory along with others RB thought up?

 ?? Yes ive shown you it before, already forgot?

He was talking about the New Zealand trip which was years before/ You're not trying to suggest that RB would think he still had the 2 grand to pay a hit man? RB feels the figure is significant to murders and does not know all the details behind it, if he did he would not mention it

he didn't spread rumours about bing a hit man at all. The gossip was that he was a mercenary mercenary and hitman are the same thing! Contract killer, soldier of fortune, professional soldier, hired soldier whatever they want to call themselves

and he did nothing to dispell them. Pretty poor attempt to find a place for MM in your theory! A poor attempt to place MM into a theory would be something like saying Jeremy incriminated himself because MM slept with Sue lol

Jones no doubt mentioned it to her -she made no mention of the wet suit in her statements.It proves either police or relatives gave her information

Only in your mind and you have to twist things to make them TRY and fit. your the master of that not me

[scipio_usmc]

Seriously Skip you should know better than this.

Just for the record Robert Boulflour's diary entries are dated BEFORE Julie came forward and Ann Eatons notes are written and dated BEFORE Julie came forward.

If this sort of thing happened in a case you were handling you wouldn't use such a blatantly inauthentic witness and you know it.

In September he wrote his diary. He went through dates trying to recall what he thought at those particular times.

I would have no problem using Julie as a witness if I were a prosecutor. Her account of Jeremy telling her such things is credible.  What I do not find credible is your claim that you were originally in the guilty camp. Your insistence that Julie conspired with others is something that would logically prevent you from ever being in the guilty camp.  You are the disingenuous one.     

[adam]

Similar to Mike, I believe David is getting over excited because Bamber wrote to him after receiving his 'forensic evidence breakthrough'.

Now we are supposed to believe that during the month Julie was whisked around England and Holland by Bamber, she somehow managed to look at AE's and RB's notes, which would only be partially completed as it was work in progress. Then she remembered everything, ready for the police.

Or that both AE and RB confided in Julie even though she was Bamber's girlfriend.

My 14 points in her WS which only Julie would know, apparently the public already knew about and Julie read it all in the papers.   Although no source was given. Why an earth would the police tell the media these (at the time) irrelevant things on the massacre day ? And why would the media publish it the following day ?

[david1819]

In September he wrote his diary. He went through dates trying to recall what he thought at those particular times.

I would have no problem using Julie as a witness if I were a prosecutor. Her account of Jeremy telling her such things is credible.  What I do not find credible is your claim that you were originally in the guilty camp. Your insistence that Julie conspired with others is something that would logically prevent you from ever being in the guilty camp.  You are the disingenuous one.     

I never considered Julie credible even when I beileved Jeremy guilty, that is why I tend to seldom mention her.  When I first became interested in the case I belived him guilty primarily due to the fact he was still in prison and had all his appeals rejected. 

[Holly Goodhead]

A polite reminder please that we have a zero tolerance to any text, emoticons, gifs or the like which have the potential to cause any conflict on the forum.  Please respect each others views when disagreeing.

Thank you for your cooperation.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7234.msg332403#msg332403

[Caroline]

Ann sais it could have come from her! Ann wrote down in her notes she got it from the police, She admitted this at trial. She also said she could have gotten it from Julie.


so much for Jeremy's detailed confession - I think she did get most of it from Jeremy but Jeremy wasn't supposed to have been there REMEMBER? She must have filled in parts of the story from what she heard from police

Makes no difference, Its not unique information - he didn't give her any unique information apart from the hit man story - why would he? He didn't trust her with the truth, just the PLAN

Still Makes no difference, Its not unique information only the killer would know and what are chances of JM happening to confirm most of RB theories? She didn't conform his theories - he made no mention of a hit man or MM>

 'A' fingerprint was on it, but yo would expect more if she had fired all of those shots! See above

 ?? Yes ive shown you it before, already forgot? He mentioned Sheila helping Jeremy NOT a hitman

 RB feels the figure is significant to murders and does not know all the details behind it, if he did he would not mention it - PURE speculation on your part, that piece doesn't even belong to the same jigsaw!


Contract killer, soldier of fortune, professional soldier, hired soldier whatever they want to call themselves. Not a hit man though!

A poor attempt to place MM into a theory would be something like saying Jeremy incriminated himself because MM slept with Sue lol - You can't fit him in at ALL - LOL

It proves either police or relatives gave her information - no it just proves they mentioned a wetsuit!

your the master of that not me. Yeah! We'll see LOL