Author Topic: Opium Poppies Grown at WHF?  (Read 95723 times)

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Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Opium Poppies Grown at WHF?
« Reply #90 on: June 17, 2016, 06:52:04 PM »

I am not saying Jeremy must be innocent because of Julies evidence, I am saying that because the evidence surrounding Julie contains a considerable degree of connivance and inconsistencies it does not prove Jeremy is guilty and should not be used as evidence of such. Like it or not the evidence surrounding Julie favours the defence case because it can be linked directly to AE and not Jeremy 

Holly seems to be looking at the minor details like ones activities on certain days whereas my analysis was based on the crime scene. What Holly has noticed is significant because its the minor details that they wont bother to go over and correct.

There is zero evidence of an connivance except in your dreams.

Time and again I have pointed out to you her most important testimony.  You have produced zilch to impeach it.  You thus totally ignore it and make up a strawman argument.

Julie's crucial testimony:

1) Jeremy told her he was planning to kill his family for nearly a year but she thought he was kidding
a) Jeremy initially told her he wanted to burn the house down as his family slept trying to make it appear Nevill fell asleep with a cigarette and this caused an accidental fire
b) Julie gave Jeremy sleeping pills for himself. He subsequently told her he tried them out in contemplation of using them on his family but found them unsuitable.
c) He told Julie the fire idea was no good and instead he would shoot everyone and make it appear sheila did it.
d) He told Julie he would use the windows to get in and planned to use a bike and was going to tested out how long a bike ride would take
2) The night of the murders Jeremy phoned her around 11pm and complained to her about how hard he was forced to work and told her it was the night he would kill them.
3) After the murders before phoning police he phoned Julie and told her he had not been to bed yet, that his plan was going well and effectively told her they were dead.


This is the damning testimony from Julie.

That Jeremy lied to her afterwards about hiring a hitman to carry out the murders and other  few details he provided to her about how the murders were carried out were not significant. 

That Jeremy lied about the details afterward is fully admitted.  Yet you create the strawman that the prosecution argued Jeremy was guilty because the details he provided after committing the murders.  Next you say all of
Julie's testimony is unreliable because of those lies were inaccurate.

You do this because you are a Jeremy activist. Your bias causes you to say her testimony must be rejected not logic.  Biased activists make extraordinarily useless advocates. Biased activist ignore inconvenient things rather than addressing them.  Ignoring things do not make them go away. An effective advocate must establish Julie lied about bullet points 1-3 posted above.  Attacking what the prosecution admitted were largely lies from Jeremy to Julie fails to do so.

There is no reason for Julie to make up such things to frame Jeremy.

She told this to someone else who ran to the police with the story she didn't rush to them on her own.

Jeremy did indeed use windows to enter and exit WHF so it is possible for him to have planned to do such and to have told her he planned to do such.

Jeremy told others he would never share his inheritance with anyone else.

It is a fact that Jeremy called Julie shortly before the murders and shortly after before even calling police. This supports her story. If he actually received the distress call he claimed then he should not have called her period let alone before police.  In addition he lied and claimed he called her after police though he called her first.  He lied because he knew it undermined his claim of receiving a distress call.

Physical evidence establishes Sheila didn't load the magazine, fire the gun, didn't beat Nevill, and can't have killed herself. Physical evidence proves Sheila was shot while propped up against something with the moderator attached.  The killer removed the moderator and put it away then dragged her body flat and stuck the gun across her body.  The killer clearly framed her.  This supports what Julie said.

You have no evidence to establish Julie lied you simply say she did because you are in the tank for Jeremy.
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Opium Poppies Grown at WHF?
« Reply #91 on: June 17, 2016, 07:07:34 PM »
I don't recall reading in JM's WS's that JB was going to frame SC.  I think he just said that he decided his family would be shot.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Caroline

Re: Opium Poppies Grown at WHF?
« Reply #92 on: June 17, 2016, 07:53:19 PM »

I am not saying Jeremy must be innocent because of Julies evidence, I am saying that because the evidence surrounding Julie contains a considerable degree of connivance and inconsistencies it does not prove Jeremy is guilty and should not be used as evidence of such. Like it or not the evidence surrounding Julie favours the defence case because it can be linked directly to AE and not Jeremy 

Holly seems to be looking at the minor details like ones activities on certain days whereas my analysis was based on the crime scene. What Holly has noticed is significant because its the minor details that they wont bother to go over and correct.

It can hardly be linked to anything Jeremy admitted to - but where did Ann Eaton mention a hit man?

david1819

  • Guest
Re: Opium Poppies Grown at WHF?
« Reply #93 on: June 17, 2016, 08:56:07 PM »
There is zero evidence of an connivance except in your dreams.

Time and again I have pointed out to you her most important testimony.  You have produced zilch to impeach it.  You thus totally ignore it and make up a strawman argument.

Julie's crucial testimony:

1) Jeremy told her he was planning to kill his family for nearly a year but she thought he was kidding
a) Jeremy initially told her he wanted to burn the house down as his family slept trying to make it appear Nevill fell asleep with a cigarette and this caused an accidental fire
b) Julie gave Jeremy sleeping pills for himself. He subsequently told her he tried them out in contemplation of using them on his family but found them unsuitable.
c) He told Julie the fire idea was no good and instead he would shoot everyone and make it appear sheila did it.
d) He told Julie he would use the windows to get in and planned to use a bike and was going to tested out how long a bike ride would take
2) The night of the murders Jeremy phoned her around 11pm and complained to her about how hard he was forced to work and told her it was the night he would kill them.
3) After the murders before phoning police he phoned Julie and told her he had not been to bed yet, that his plan was going well and effectively told her they were dead.


This is the damning testimony from Julie.

That Jeremy lied to her afterwards about hiring a hitman to carry out the murders and other  few details he provided to her about how the murders were carried out were not significant. 

That Jeremy lied about the details afterward is fully admitted.  Yet you create the strawman that the prosecution argued Jeremy was guilty because the details he provided after committing the murders.  Next you say all of
Julie's testimony is unreliable because of those lies were inaccurate.

You do this because you are a Jeremy activist. Your bias causes you to say her testimony must be rejected not logic.  Biased activists make extraordinarily useless advocates. Biased activist ignore inconvenient things rather than addressing them.  Ignoring things do not make them go away. An effective advocate must establish Julie lied about bullet points 1-3 posted above.  Attacking what the prosecution admitted were largely lies from Jeremy to Julie fails to do so.

There is no reason for Julie to make up such things to frame Jeremy.

She told this to someone else who ran to the police with the story she didn't rush to them on her own.

Jeremy did indeed use windows to enter and exit WHF so it is possible for him to have planned to do such and to have told her he planned to do such.

Jeremy told others he would never share his inheritance with anyone else.

It is a fact that Jeremy called Julie shortly before the murders and shortly after before even calling police. This supports her story. If he actually received the distress call he claimed then he should not have called her period let alone before police.  In addition he lied and claimed he called her after police though he called her first.  He lied because he knew it undermined his claim of receiving a distress call.

Physical evidence establishes Sheila didn't load the magazine, fire the gun, didn't beat Nevill, and can't have killed herself. Physical evidence proves Sheila was shot while propped up against something with the moderator attached.  The killer removed the moderator and put it away then dragged her body flat and stuck the gun across her body.  The killer clearly framed her.  This supports what Julie said.

You have no evidence to establish Julie lied you simply say she did because you are in the tank for Jeremy.

I have posted the evidence enough times. if its not going to sink in due to your stonewalling efforts what else can I do?

You have no evidence to show Julie is a credible witness you simply make her out to be because you are in the tank for the Police

david1819

  • Guest
Re: Opium Poppies Grown at WHF?
« Reply #94 on: June 17, 2016, 09:02:57 PM »
It seems you can cultivate opium legally or illegally in this countries climate.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/opium-poppies-far-eye-can-5955835


I doubt Neville and June were producing heroin lol they don't seem the type.

Holly are you trying to suggest this was the source of their wealth?

Offline Caroline

Re: Opium Poppies Grown at WHF?
« Reply #95 on: June 17, 2016, 09:12:02 PM »
I have posted the evidence enough times. if its not going to sink in due to your stonewalling efforts what else can I do?

You have no evidence to show Julie is a credible witness you simply make her out to be because you are in the tank for the Police

And you have none to show that she isn't - you make her out not to be because you're hoping to be involved an appeal - do you want Brad to play you in the movie? (Don't hold you breath Brad!)  @)(++(*

Offline Caroline

Re: Opium Poppies Grown at WHF?
« Reply #96 on: June 17, 2016, 09:15:07 PM »
It seems you can cultivate opium legally or illegally in this countries climate.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/opium-poppies-far-eye-can-5955835


I doubt Neville and June were producing heroin lol they don't seem the type.

Holly are you trying to suggest this was the source of their wealth?

Not in 1985

Offline Myster

Re: Opium Poppies Grown at WHF?
« Reply #97 on: June 17, 2016, 09:43:33 PM »
And you have none to show that she isn't - you make her out not to be because you're hoping to be involved an appeal - do you want Brad to play you in the movie? (Don't hold you breath Brad!)  @)(++(*

Rumour has it (poor old rumour) that David's got Brad breath.  8()-000(
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Caroline

Re: Opium Poppies Grown at WHF?
« Reply #98 on: June 17, 2016, 09:45:53 PM »
Rumour has it (poor old rumour) that David's got Brad breath.  8()-000(

 @)(++(* @)(++(*

david1819

  • Guest
Re: Opium Poppies Grown at WHF?
« Reply #99 on: June 17, 2016, 10:08:30 PM »
And you have none to show that she isn't - you make her out not to be because you're hoping to be involved an appeal - do you want Brad to play you in the movie? (Don't hold you breath Brad!)  @)(++(*

I have shown time and time again she is no credible witness.

Even you admit she is a liar
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6356.msg281155.html#msg281155
yet you protend she is a credible witness

How on earth can I be part of an appeal? I am no expert witness. I am not going to join the CT either.

Offline Caroline

Re: Opium Poppies Grown at WHF?
« Reply #100 on: June 17, 2016, 10:32:53 PM »
I have shown time and time again she is no credible witness.

Even you admit she is a liar
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6356.msg281155.html#msg281155
yet you protend she is a credible witness

How on earth can I be part of an appeal? I am no expert witness. I am not going to join the CT either.

No you're not and expert - you really must remember that! And you haven't shown anything of the sort, you have simply posted your OPINION. The fact that Jeremy told Julie a load of BS, doesn't make her a bad witness, it simply shows what a conniving character Jeremy was/is. he told her enough to sort the wheat from the BS.

You can't just join the CT team, you have to be invited.

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Opium Poppies Grown at WHF?
« Reply #101 on: June 17, 2016, 11:52:14 PM »
I have shown time and time again she is no credible witness.

Even you admit she is a liar
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6356.msg281155.html#msg281155
yet you protend she is a credible witness

How on earth can I be part of an appeal? I am no expert witness. I am not going to join the CT either.

You have done nothing at all to demonstrate she made up her account of Jeremy telling her he was planning to kill his family, telling her the night of the murders that "tonight is the night" and after the murders calling her to tell her they were dead.

You constantly take your opinion and elevate it to proof.
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

david1819

  • Guest
Re: Opium Poppies Grown at WHF?
« Reply #102 on: June 18, 2016, 12:11:11 AM »
The fact that Jeremy told Julie a load of BS, doesn't make her a bad witness, it simply shows what a conniving character Jeremy was/is. he told her enough to sort the wheat from the BS.

That's not what you said, you said yourself that Julie got things elsewhere and acted as if she got it from JB, Simple! now your trying to wriggle out of that one

No you're not and expert - you really must remember that!

I do remember that. Why do you think I read and quote from experts and studies in the first place? 

I've passed my report on to the people drafting the appeal application, its out my hands now. My involvement is over and done with as far as I know.

You can't just join the CT team, you have to be invited.

Like I said I am not joining, invitation or not.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2016, 12:31:39 AM by David1819 »

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Opium Poppies Grown at WHF?
« Reply #103 on: June 18, 2016, 03:08:07 AM »
I have posted the evidence enough times. if its not going to sink in due to your stonewalling efforts what else can I do?

You have no evidence to show Julie is a credible witness you simply make her out to be because you are in the tank for the Police

You claim you already previously posted evidence and that you don't care to do so again.  In this manner you avoid ever posting evidence and ever dealing with the points I raised.  You just claim you did so in the past as a cop out for your inability to do so.

Who do you think you are fooling?

Here in reality not your make believe fantasy world, the fact that the trial judge and 2 appeal Courts found her evidence to be credible totally undermines your claim that as a matter of law we can't trust her testimony.  They found her testimony could be trusted by a rational objective trier of fact.

Moreover, here in the real world the fact that physical evidence proves Sheila didn't beat Nevill, didn't load a gun, didn't shoot anyone else and can't have killed herself but rather was murdered and the scene staged to appear like she carried out the attack SUPPORTS Julie's account that Jeremy said he was going to shoot everyone and stage it to appear Sheila was responsible.

Here in the real World the fact that Nevill could not have made the alleged distress call to Jeremy because he was shot in the bedroom which had no phone and then could not speak SUPPORTS Julie's account.

Here in the real World the fact that Julie was the last person Jeremy spoke to before the murders and first person he spoke to after yet he lied and pretended he called police first supports her account.

The level of detail Julie provided of prior to the murders supports her account.

The fact Julie admitted to her own wrongdoing even rather than hide such supports she was telling the truth.

The fact that only Jeremy had a motive to make up the hitman claim supports her account that he told her such there is no way she would make it up herself.

There is more but this is more than sufficient to show there is plenty to support Julie.  Facing this makes one a realist not someone int he tank for police.

You ignore it and refuse to be a realist because you are in the tank for Jeremy and refuse to face anything that harms Jeremy.  Refusing to face it doesn't make it go away.  Propagandists think that all that matters is perception and that reality is anything they want it to be,  That is not real life though.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2016, 03:43:22 PM by Holly Goodhead »
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline adam

Re: Opium Poppies Grown at WHF?
« Reply #104 on: June 18, 2016, 09:23:03 AM »
You have done nothing at all to demonstrate she made up her account of Jeremy telling her he was planning to kill his family, telling her the night of the murders that "tonight is the night" and after the murders calling her to tell her they were dead.

You constantly take your opinion and elevate it to proof.

I think David is trying to compensate for the fab four - Mike, Lookout Trudie and Nugs. He knows how damaging their support is for Bamber,  so tries to big up his own contribution.

So a palm print on the bible everyone already knew about becomes a mysterious 'forensic evidence breakthrough'. NGB secretly contacted for public support. Evidence he can't answer he claims he did, such as in this weeks silencer thread, or posts a picture of a laughing man/empty library.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2016, 10:26:47 AM by adam »