Opium Poppies Grown at WHF?

[Holly Goodhead]

It relates to the 'whole' section, that's how references work. It obviously all comes from the same statement which is why she has labelled it - there is no need to quote the same reference twice, unless another reference is quoted in between that breaks the chain of events.

No it doesn't relate to item 23.  I've just read through the notes and references sections looking for sources from Dr Craig and it relates to item 11:

"Ian Craig, notes for Essex Police 'A review of the Bamber Killings', November 1986.  Unless indicated otherwise, all quotes from Ian Craig in this chapter are from this source".

Does anyone have this?

[Caroline]

No it doesn't relate to item 23.  I've just read through the notes and references sections looking for sources from Dr Craig and it relates to item 11:

"Ian Craig, notes for Essex Police 'A review of the Bamber Killings', November 1986.  Unless indicated otherwise, all quotes from Ian Craig in this chapter are from this source".

Does anyone have this?

Yes it does, look at the notes that relate to chapter 21 - number 23 states clearly "Ian Craig W/S i October 1985" - The same information is also available in Blood Relations  page 20-21.

If you have the paperback, it may be different but you just need to look up the item number relating to the chaper in question. In the hardback it is in chapter 21 and the item number is 23.

Item 11 does state what you have quoted but item 21 relates to the passage in question - I can photocopy it for you if you like?

[Holly Goodhead]

Yes it does, look at the notes that relate to chapter 21 - number 23 states clearly "Ian Craig W/S i October 1985" - The same information is also available in Blood Relations  page 20-21.

If you have the paperback, it may be different but you just need to look up the item number relating to the chaper in question. In the hardback it is in chapter 21 and the item number is 23.

Item 23 relates to the following:

"As DS Jones and Miller parked up in Page Lane, they spotted Jeremy walking towards the field.  He had spoken to Dr Craig about the supper table discussion ending in a row about the care of the twins, whom he described as 'ill treated by their mother'.23"

I have the hardback.  CAL identifies 3 sources of info from Dr Craig for chapter 21:

Item 11 : "Ian Craig, notes for Essex Police 'A review of the Bamber Killings', November 1986.  Unless indicated otherwise, all quotes from Ian Craig in this chapter are from this source".

Item 13 : "Ian Craig, w/s, 7th August 1985.

Item 23 : "Ian Craig, w/s, 1st October 1985.

We were both wrong.  I was wrong as I said there wasn't a source and there is it's item 11.  You were wrong as you said it was item 23. 

[Caroline]

Item 23 relates to the following:

"As DS Jones and Miller parked up in Page Lane, they spotted Jeremy walking towards the field.  He had spoken to Dr Craig about the supper table discussion ending in a row about the care of the twins, whom he described as 'ill treated by their mother'.23"

I have the hardback.  CAL identifies 3 sources of info from Dr Craig for chapter 21:

Item 11 : "Ian Craig, notes for Essex Police 'A review of the Bamber Killings', November 1986.  Unless indicated otherwise, all quotes from Ian Craig in this chapter are from this source".

Item 13 : "Ian Craig, w/s, 7th August 1985.

Item 23 : "Ian Craig, w/s, 1st October 1985.

We were both wrong.  I was wrong as I said there wasn't a source and there is it's item 11.  You were wrong as you said it was item 23.

Pointless arguing over where it was written, fact is it's a relevant source and originated from Jeremy (according to Dr Craig).

Odd time to pick flowers when your family has just been massacred. I smell bacon!

[Holly Goodhead]

Pointless arguing over where it was written, fact is it's a relevant source and originated from Jeremy (according to Dr Craig).

Odd time to pick flowers when your family has just been massacred. I smell bacon!

There's no argument I was just interested in her source and I'm satisfied now it's item 11 which I overlooked.   

Yes it is a relevant source, a police surgeon with 30 years experience:

"He was carrying a small bunch of opium poppies when Dr Craig caught up with him.  Explaining that the farm had a special licence to grow them for the pharmaceutical industry, he walked round to the kitchen yard and let the labrador out of the barn.  Following him, Dr Craig felt Jeremy was 'grief stricken' and suffering 'emotional shock'.  He said as much to Chief Superintendent Harris before departing, but confirmed that Jeremy was fit for interview".

I'm not really interested in any of the above.  I'm interested in understanding more about the poppies eg were they opium poppies and if so why were they being grown and whether or not WHF had the appropriate authorisation to farm them.

 

[Caroline]

There's no argument I was just interested in her source and I'm satisfied now it's item 11 which I overlooked.   

Yes it is a relevant source, a police surgeon with 30 years experience:

"He was carrying a small bunch of opium poppies when Dr Craig caught up with him.  Explaining that the farm had a special licence to grow them for the pharmaceutical industry, he walked round to the kitchen yard and let the labrador out of the barn.  Following him, Dr Craig felt Jeremy was 'grief stricken' and suffering 'emotional shock'.  He said as much to Chief Superintendent Harris before departing, but confirmed that Jeremy was fit for interview".

I'm not really interested in any of the above.  I'm interested in understanding more about the poppies eg were they opium poppies and if so why were they being grown and whether or not WHF had the appropriate authorisation to farm them.

 

Depends on the colour and no one mentioned that. I agree with Myster, seems to have just been a distraction.

[Myster]

The two main types grown here are easily distinguishable to anyone knowing something about flowers, which Dr Craig might have been...

[Wonderfulspam]

The two main types grown here are easily distinguishable to anyone knowing something about flowers, which Dr Craig might have been...

Yep, the top picture, purple poppies, they're opium poppies, get them in my garden.

They're still in veg stage at the mo, should start flowering soon.

They're pretty, but, the petals don't last long. I tend to prune them to keep them flowering through late summer.


*Jesus, hark at me, I sound like a right pansy. 

Beers, Birds, Tits & Bloke stuff.....   Ahh that's better.

[Opal]

What I'd like to know is what happened to the poppies that JB picked? Were they thrown away?

Telling EP his sister SC could have had a  psychotic episode, as she had recently been in a mental hospital, could JB also have been drawing attention to the poppies on their medical grounds. Therefore reinforcing his claim that his sister had been having medical attention recently, or even that she was taking drugs. Hence his statement that they had a licence to grow the poppies.

It also states in CAL's book that the poppies were growing in a small area of the field, so not a whole field of them.   My mistake Holly it was in DI Harris's statement I read about the poppies, and not CAL's book

[Holly Goodhead]

What I'd like to know is what happened to the poppies that JB picked? Were they thrown away?

Telling EP his sister SC could have had a  psychotic episode, as she had recently been in a mental hospital, could JB also have been drawing attention to the poppies on their medical grounds. Therefore reinforcing his claim that his sister had been having medical attention recently, or even that she was taking drugs. Hence his statement that they had a licence to grow the poppies.

It also states in CAL's book that the poppies were growing in a small area of the field, so not a whole field of them.

Yes I was wondering what happened to his posy.

Do you have the page number Opal for the "small" reference?

[Holly Goodhead]

It appears Dr Ian Craig was the president of association of police surgeons.

Here's a copy of the police surgeon supplement dated 18th April 1985 which Dr Craig contributed to. Interestingly pages 22 - 27 contain articles about opium poppies grown in Pakistan and drug addiction in the UK. 

http://www.fflm.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/PSS-18-April-1985.pdf

[Holly Goodhead]

Also pages 14 - 15 of the above refer to the association (of police surgeons) having an interest in clinical forensic medicine and experience of drug addicts in their roles as family doctors and in police custody.

It seems likely Dr Craig would be familiar with the opium poppy.

[Opal]

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=157.0;attach=106

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=157.0;attach=108

Holly, I found the mention of a small area in a field from your link above. it's on the bottom line.

[Holly Goodhead]

Holly, I found the mention of a small area in a field from your link above. it's on the bottom line.

Oh, ok thanks.  I thought you had found some reference in CAL's book. 

I find the above WS ambigious as it refers to looking at the poppies in a small area of a field.  This could mean the poppies were confined to a small area of a large field or that they looked at a small area of a field filled with poppies.

[Caroline]

Also pages 14 - 15 of the above refer to the association (of police surgeons) having an interest in clinical forensic medicine and experience of drug addicts in their roles as family doctors and in police custody.

It seems likely Dr Craig would be familiar with the opium poppy.

Not necessarily given that JB told him they were opium poppies.