Opium Poppies Grown at WHF?

[Holly Goodhead]

Another question.... Was NB tied up? Looking at the photo that I believe is on here somewhere of NB face down after being killed, it looks like his hands are held by rope.

None of the raid team or SoC officers make reference to this.

[Holly Goodhead]

I know what it's like to get attached to a certain thing when looking through the evidence Holly. I've recently been wondering more about 'Crispy'....oh no... hear we go again, I hear everyone saying  ... But could the grey hair found on the silencer have come from the dog?  This hair was never tested as it got lost in transit. The dog was in the bedroom where the silencer was used. But also the dog slept in the kitchen by the Aga in a basket!

Yes a hair from Crispy is possible but the relatives didn't identify any hair attached when they found the silencer.  Again unlike the poppies the hair was discussed at trial

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?PHPSESSID=3dnms53s9khp1p4c0ma7f63j61&action=dlattach;topic=1056.0;attach=2216

[Caroline]

It might be something or nothing.

I don't believe it has ever been illegal to grow opium poppies in the UK?  They are recommended by the RHS.  I believe June was a keen gardener so she may have been growing some in small area of a field which she then intended to transfer to the garden at WHF.  However why would JB say the farm had a special licence to grow opium poppies for the pharmaceutical industry? 

If JB was lying why wasn't this brought up in his interviews/trial?  Dr Craig and Chief Sup Harris obviously thought it was relevant enough to make comment in WS's and other written testimony.  Some have said it was to cause a distraction etc but much was made of JB's behaviour post murders from the moment he was told of the deaths to the time he was charged.  Eg thinking of his deceased pet dog Brambles, who he was very fond of, to force himself to vomit; eating a cooked breakfast; letting out a "chuckle" etc so if he was lying about the opium poppies to cause a distraction etc why did this fall under the radar?

It doesn't appear the UK Gov issued licences until 2002.  Maybe NB was granted some special licence for stock piling in the event of a war (morphine) or something similar?  NB and June would be ideal candidates for anything secret with their WW2 backgrounds/security checks etc. 

No comment from any of the farm employees or relatives about any opium poppies.  Bearing in mind PE took over the running of the farm in the aftermath.  If the plants were purchased through the business account then BW may have seen an invoice. 

When the relatives went into WHF post murders much was made of a small piece of cannabis resin in the safe yet nothing about opium poppies if that's what they were.

MM had cannabis plants removed from his house by the police and sent for analysis.  I haven't seen anything about opium poppies being removed from WHF and sent for analysis. 

Of course it's always possible that for whatever reason(s) WHF was doing something illegal and it was kept hushed up.  Seems unlikely but one just never knows.

I don't understand the significance of the poppies? Why would it be brought up at trial? They grew borage as well, but that wasn't mentioned either. The killings weren't drug related  so like Myster and April, I'm not sure what difference it makes?

[Opal]

But the hair was suspected of being on the silencer, in turn the silencer was on the gun that killed the family. So of course it would be bought up at the trial. Whereas, the poppies had nothing to do with the killings. This wasn't a trial about drugs and who maybe growing them, or for what reason, it was a murder trial

[APRIL]

I don't understand the significance of the poppies? Why would it be brought up at trial? They grew borage as well, but that wasn't mentioned either. The killings weren't drug related  so like Myster and April, I'm not sure what difference it makes?

Take a deep breath, Opal -is that your favourite stone?- it has been mooted that Jeremy's father is none other than a man in a very high position who got one of his maids pregnant and married her off to another man who said he was the child's father but then had him adopted. Because of this Special Branch have monitored the Bamber family from that time on. Somewhere down the line Drugs Squad also kept an eye on them. This MAY be why the poppies appear to have taken on a life lof their own.

[Opal]

Take a deep breath, Opal -is that your favourite stone?- it has been mooted that Jeremy's father is none other than a man in a very high position who got one of his maids pregnant and married her off to another man who said he was the child's father but then had him adopted. Because of this Special Branch have monitored the Bamber family from that time on. Somewhere down the line Drugs Squad also kept an eye on them. This MAY be why the poppies appear to have taken on a life lof their own.

    I expect 'Crispy' was a sniffer dog at some point as well.

April.....Opal is my birthstone.

[Holly Goodhead]

I don't understand the significance of the poppies? Why would it be brought up at trial? They grew borage as well, but that wasn't mentioned either. The killings weren't drug related  so like Myster and April, I'm not sure what difference it makes?

As we've both said it appears the UK government first issued licences to UK farmers to grow opium poppies in the noughties.  JB said WHF had a special licence to grow opium poppies for the pharmaceutical industry.  You and others have suggested JB lied.  If JB lied I would have expected this to be revealed during the course of the investigation and used against JB at trial; it wasn't. 

The difference between borage and opium poppies is that opium poppies are the source of powerful drugs: heroin, methadone and morphine.  As such a licence is required to cultivate them.  Borage is a herb and  is cultivated for culinary and medicinal (herbal remedies) uses.

I agree there's no evidence the murders (suicide?) were drug related.

[Holly Goodhead]

But the hair was suspected of being on the silencer, in turn the silencer was on the gun that killed the family. So of course it would be bought up at the trial. Whereas, the poppies had nothing to do with the killings. This wasn't a trial about drugs and who maybe growing them, or for what reason, it was a murder trial

Yes I agree about the hair.  And the poppies had nothing to do with the murders (suicide ?) per se but if JB lied about the licence then this was potentally relevant to the investigation and trial.

[Holly Goodhead]

Take a deep breath, Opal -is that your favourite stone?- it has been mooted that Jeremy's father is none other than a man in a very high position who got one of his maids pregnant and married her off to another man who said he was the child's father but then had him adopted. Because of this Special Branch have monitored the Bamber family from that time on. Somewhere down the line Drugs Squad also kept an eye on them. This MAY be why the poppies appear to have taken on a life lof their own.

The Bamber board on this forum deals in facts.  We leave the stuff of fantasies to Mike/Blue.

The poppies are an interesting feature of the case:

- JB said WHF had a special licence to grow opium poppies for the pharmaceutical industry
- It appears the UK government issued the first licences in the early noughties
- If JB lied then I would expect this to be revealed during the course of the investigation

[Myster]

Where is it mentioned in any statement that the poppies were grown for pharmaceuticals?

I was munching on a granary bread sandwich yesterday and wondered what type of seeds it was made with.  Looked for the ingredients on the packet - contains seeds of Sunflower, Pumpkin, Linseed, Poppy and Millet.

Maybe the WHF poppy heads were grown for their seeds alone to supply breadmakers/confectioners, rather than for morphine... hence the licence to grow in '85 when whole foods were becoming popular?

Appears that only the Opium poppy is used for such...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poppy_seed

http://www.nutrition-and-you.com/poppy-seeds.html

[APRIL]

Where is it mentioned in any statement that the poppies were grown for pharmaceuticals?

I was munching on a granary bread sandwich yesterday and wondered what type of seeds it was made with.  Looked for the ingredients on the packet - contains seeds of Sunflower, Pumpkin, Linseed, Poppy and Millet.

Maybe the WHF poppy heads were grown for their seeds alone to supply breadmakers/confectioners, rather than for morphine... hence the licence to grow in '85 when whole foods were becoming popular?

Appears that only the Opium poppy is used for such...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poppy_seed

http://www.nutrition-and-you.com/poppy-seeds.html

Interesting point, Myster, and of course, bragging that they were allowed to grow opium poppies, in his mind, may have elevated him rather higher than saying they were being grown for nutritional value.

[Holly Goodhead]

Where is it mentioned in any statement that the poppies were grown for pharmaceuticals?

I was munching on a granary bread sandwich yesterday and wondered what type of seeds it was made with.  Looked for the ingredients on the packet - contains seeds of Sunflower, Pumpkin, Linseed, Poppy and Millet.

Maybe the WHF poppy heads were grown for their seeds alone to supply breadmakers/confectioners, rather than for morphine... hence the licence to grow in '85 when whole foods were becoming popular?

Appears that only the Opium poppy is used for such...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poppy_seed

http://www.nutrition-and-you.com/poppy-seeds.html

This was discussed earlier on in the thread.  Two sources:

Page 179 CAL's book:

"He [JB] was carrying a small bunch of opium poppies when Dr Ian Craig caught up with him.  Explaining that the farm had a special licence to grow them for the pharmaceutical industry..." 

CAL's source: 

"Ian Craig, notes for Essex Police 'A review of the Bamber Killings', November 1986.  Unless indicated otherwise, all quotes from Ian Craig in this chapter are from this source". Chapter 21, item 11.

Chief Sup George Harris WS:

"He [Dr Ian Craig] asked if I knew that the farm was especially licensed to grow the opium poppy, which I was not, and as a result we both went to look at a small area in a field on the right hand side of Pages Lane about a quarter of a mile beyond the farmhouse".

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=157.0;attach=106

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=157.0;attach=108

I have just made myself an orange marmalade ham sarnie using using a Warburtons seeded batch: "Contains a delicious blend of sesame, sunflower, millet, linseed and poppy seeds" and yes poppy seeds are from the opium poppy but this doesn't expain the above?

[Holly Goodhead]

Interesting point, Myster, and of course, bragging that they were allowed to grow opium poppies, in his mind, may have elevated him rather higher than saying they were being grown for nutritional value.

The hub of JB's trial (probably similar to most criminal trials) was whether or not he was being truthful eg:

- Did he receive a phone call from NB telling his SC was going crazy with a gun
- Did he tell JM his intentions and plans to murder his family
- Did he say to RWB 'Oh Uncle Bobby I could easily kill my parents' or whatever the exact words were
- Did he say to JR "I hate my fcuking parents"

Etc, etc

If JB told Dr Craig on morning of 7th Aug WHF had a licence to grow opium poppies and it didn't then this would surely be strong evidence to show JB had a propensity towards lying and would be used against him at trial?  Dr Craig was a trial witness.  He was the person who was qualified to assess JB's emotional state in the immediate aftermath and confirmed him fit for interview on 7th Aug.

(Can I ask please if posters wish to discuss in detail the examples I've given above they either retrieve old relevant threads or start new ones.  This thread is primarily to discuss the poppies.  Thank you.)

[Holly Goodhead]

A Home Office spokeswoman said: "The poppies in question, Papaver somniferum, can be grown without a licence. The extraction of the drugs is a complex industrial process and the people who work to produce the drugs have to be licensed.

"In addition, the Home Office receives information about where the poppy farmers are and how much they are growing from the pharmaceutical companies. We then send growers a letter that they are encouraged to show to local police to make them aware of their activities."

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/the-painkilling-fields-englands-opium-poppies-that-tackle-the-nhs-morphine-crisis-6597885.html

[Holly Goodhead]

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/85941/response/218225/attach/3/CR20001%20Response.pdf