Author Topic: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?  (Read 38762 times)

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Offline John

Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
« Reply #45 on: June 30, 2016, 06:57:36 PM »
Latest poll of over 1000 people today suggests most people (77%) say no to an amnesty for illegal immigrants.

https://twitter.com/Justice_forum/status/748439187423109120
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 07:00:01 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
« Reply #46 on: June 30, 2016, 07:34:42 PM »
It may have slipped your memory that the ECHR is NOT an EU institution.  Leaving the EU will not remove our obligations to the ECHR.  So those who voted leave on that basis are going to be a bit disappointed.

That has been explained before J.P.

Sometimes though, the message doesn't get through.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
« Reply #47 on: June 30, 2016, 07:37:26 PM »
A Bill of Rights of course or whatever other fancy name they want to give it.  Laws in the UK should be tailored to our culture and traditions as it was prior to all this European crap.

And whilst we're at it we should ensure that Laws in England, Wales, Scotland and N Ireland are the same.

You should check your history John.

The Human Rights Act and what followed it date back to the aftermath of the Second World War.


Offline John

Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
« Reply #48 on: June 30, 2016, 09:32:37 PM »
You should check your history John.

The Human Rights Act and what followed it date back to the aftermath of the Second World War.

David Cameron has always wanted to replace the HRA with a Bill of Rights.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 10:54:05 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
« Reply #49 on: June 30, 2016, 09:43:37 PM »
Asylum seekers, fleeing from a brutal regime in Syria.

But no doubt they should have been sent back from whence they came.

Where is that vomit emoticon.   
the feeling re the vomit emoticon is mutual...so what percentage of the illegals are fleeing Syria...please tell us all. it is rather difficult to tell when they have torn their passports up...we certainly know some are from Pakistan and Afganistan and I believe the young 25 yr old boy who murdered the young Sweedish girl who was trying to help them was from Somalia.
It's a shame they can't show some thanks when they arrive and behave themselves rather than terrorise young women with their sexual assaults.

good to see some of them have rejected Islam and turned to Christ and are being baptised.....the fact that it stops them being sent back home  shows christ is looking after them.

perhaps if we stopped unemployed or very low skill Europeans coming into the country we could in fact help more of the genuine refugees.....

Lastly of course we have the problem that it is quite probable that some of those being welcomed are terrorists....



Alfie

  • Guest
Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
« Reply #50 on: June 30, 2016, 09:54:44 PM »
"It is also clear there was no public appetite for an amnesty of the kind mooted. A YouGov poll for the Sunday Times in January 2012 found that 67% believe that illegal immigrants should be deported immediately with no right of appeal"
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 10:55:32 PM by John »

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
« Reply #51 on: June 30, 2016, 09:58:50 PM »
A recent report, whilst describing an amnesty on illegals as "an appallingly bad idea" also recognised that

"it is clearly impossible to deport half a million people. It is, however, possible to discourage an illegal existence in Britain. Fines against employers for employing illegal workers should be much more vigorously enforced. Action should also be taken against those who provide accommodation for illegal immigrants. These measures, combined with the development of electronic border checking, should progressively reduce the scale of illegal immigration in Britain.

Commenting, Sir Andrew Green, Chairman of Migration Watch UK said “The problem of illegal immigration has to be tackled if opportunities for young people in Britain are to be improved. A situation in which nearly a quarter of young Londoners, and about half of young black Londoners, are unemployed simply cannot be allowed to continue. Amnesties are an appallingly bad idea. They have been a total failure in Italy and Spain; they have just sucked in more and more illegals. It is highly irresponsible to suggest that an amnesty in the UK is inevitable – especially in a country that is believed to be a major source of illegal immigrants,” he said."

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
« Reply #52 on: June 30, 2016, 10:03:14 PM »
A recent report, whilst describing an amnesty on illegals as "an appallingly bad idea" also recognised that

"it is clearly impossible to deport half a million people. It is, however, possible to discourage an illegal existence in Britain. Fines against employers for employing illegal workers should be much more vigorously enforced. Action should also be taken against those who provide accommodation for illegal immigrants. These measures, combined with the development of electronic border checking, should progressively reduce the scale of illegal immigration in Britain.

Commenting, Sir Andrew Green, Chairman of Migration Watch UK said “The problem of illegal immigration has to be tackled if opportunities for young people in Britain are to be improved. A situation in which nearly a quarter of young Londoners, and about half of young black Londoners, are unemployed simply cannot be allowed to continue. Amnesties are an appallingly bad idea. They have been a total failure in Italy and Spain; they have just sucked in more and more illegals. It is highly irresponsible to suggest that an amnesty in the UK is inevitable – especially in a country that is believed to be a major source of illegal immigrants,” he said."

some sanity at last

Offline mercury

Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
« Reply #53 on: June 30, 2016, 10:39:31 PM »
Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?

This question was raised again recently as part of the pre referendum debate.  Boris Johnson suggested that an amnesty for the estimated 500,000 illegal immigrants in the UK, most of whom can be found in London, would be the humane thing to do.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-brexit-illegal-immigrants-immigration-amnesty-eu-referendum-vote-leave-a7090246.html

We opened up this question on twitter today, follow the result below.

https://twitter.com/Justice_forum/status/748439187423109120

What do you think?


50

You need to start with a legal definition of "illegal immigrant"

Eta of course you and I the whole country including frightened kids all know the "immigration problem" goes far beyond "illegal immigrants"

An amnesty to desperate non criminal people willing to work for their living contribute and integrate is not such a terrible idea....the UK is already a multiculteral multi faith multi ethnic country, nothng is going to change this
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 10:50:55 PM by mercury »

Offline G-Unit

Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
« Reply #54 on: June 30, 2016, 10:41:40 PM »
Whatever we do people need to understand why there's so much desperation in the world. It won't stop until everyone has a fair chance of living a peaceful, settled and reasonable life wherever they happen to be born.



Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
« Reply #55 on: June 30, 2016, 10:49:58 PM »
You need to start with a legal definition of "illegal immigrant"

Eta of course you and I the whole country including frightened kids all know the "immigration problem" goes far beyond "illegal immigrants"

An amnesty to desperate non criminal people willing to work for their living contribute and integrate is not such a terrible idea....
yes its  a terrible idea

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
« Reply #56 on: June 30, 2016, 10:53:24 PM »
Whatever we do people need to understand why there's so much desperation in the world. It won't stop until everyone has a fair chance of living a peaceful, settled and reasonable life wherever they happen to be born.

are you aware that china invaded Tibet in the 50's and killed a million people....are still there now....arrested and held...and still holding the youngest political prisoner in the world....aged 5 when arrested.....and we can't say a word because it would upset the chinese...we cannot heal the whole world
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 10:55:26 PM by davel »

Offline mercury

Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
« Reply #57 on: June 30, 2016, 10:53:43 PM »
Whatever we do people need to understand why there's so much desperation in the world. It won't stop until everyone has a fair chance of living a peaceful, settled and reasonable life wherever they happen to be born.
Indeed and it doesnt help when british prime ministers unleash the hounds of war (and worse based on lies) and destablise for decades a whole region, even more than it was originally, well,isnt karma a bitch

Question time beckons, very interesting it should be
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 11:02:47 PM by mercury »

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
« Reply #58 on: June 30, 2016, 10:56:02 PM »
Indeed and it doesnt help when british prime ministers unleash the hounds of war and destablise for decades a whole region, even more than it was originally, well,isnt karma a bitch

#I would agree with that

Offline John

Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
« Reply #59 on: June 30, 2016, 11:09:42 PM »
You need to start with a legal definition of "illegal immigrant"

Eta of course you and I the whole country including frightened kids all know the "immigration problem" goes far beyond "illegal immigrants"

An amnesty to desperate non criminal people willing to work for their living contribute and integrate is not such a terrible idea....the UK is already a multiculteral multi faith multi ethnic country, nothng is going to change this

The Definition of an Illegal Immigrant

An illegal immigrant is a non-EU national who has entered the UK without leave or has overstayed his leave.


The Size of the Illegal Immigrant Population in the UK

By its nature, illegal immigration is very difficult to measure. The Census does not record the immigration status of respondents and the removal of the remaining exit checks in 1998 has meant that, since then, it has been impossible to determine who is still in the country.

The Government has long shied away from attempting to estimate the illegal immigrant population of the UK. In 2005 however, the Home Office commissioned a report which estimated that in 2001 the population of illegal immigrants in the UK was approximately 430,000, excluding the UK born children of illegal immigrants.

In 2009, the London School of Economics produced an estimate of the illegal immigrant population in 2007; they suggested a central figure of 670,000 using a similar methodology to the 2005 estimate. They suggested that three factors would have affected the size of the illegal immigrant population between 2005 and 2007:

    Some of the continued inflow of asylum seekers would have been refused asylum and therefore become illegal immigrants
    More immigrants would have overstayed their visas. These two factors would have increased the size of the illegal population.
    Meanwhile the regularisation of some previously illegal immigrants would have reduced the total.

In 2010 Migration Watch UK estimated the illegal immigrant population at 1.1million (see here). It is very likely that, in the five years since that estimate was produced, the number has continued to increase.

The government has now reintroduced exit checks which will allow the authorities to know, from hereon, who has left the country and who remains.
How can an illegal immigrant obtain the right to remain in the UK?

Some people have had their immigration status “regularised”, meaning that they go from being an illegal immigrant with no right to remain to being a legal migrant with either temporary or indefinite leave to remain. The immigration rules set out the grounds under which an individual has a right to remain in relation to Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights. There were around 20,000 grants under the Article 8 ‘family life’ route in the year to June 2015 and a further 2,000 under the Article 8 ‘private life’ route. In addition to these routes the Home Office also issued around 12,000 grants of leave to remain on a discretionary basis on ‘compassionate grounds’.
Obstacles to Enforcement

The number of illegal immigrants removed from the UK is very low in comparison to the size of their population. In 2013 the UK authorities removed 3,800 immigration offenders, 4,670 Foreign National Offenders and 4,840 failed asylum cases.

There is a great deal of public support for removing people that are in the UK illegally: a 2014 poll found that 84% want to see stronger action taken to remove illegal immigrants. One of the major obstacles is the underfunding of immigration enforcement. In the year 2014/15, the total budget for immigration control was £1.8 billion which was around 0.25% of total government expenditure of £700 billion.

Another major impediment is the size of the detention estate. At present only around 3,500 can be held in detention at any one time. This is clearly inadequate compared to the size of the illegal immigrant population.

The lack of return agreements between the UK and source countries is a further obstacle. Unfortunately, it is often those countries that are a major source if illegal immigrants with which the UK does not have an agreement. A returns agreement is one whereby two countries agree to return their nationals to each other when they are found illegally in each other’s territory.

At present the UK does not have an agreement with either Brazil or India, both of which are thought to be significant sources of illegal migration to the UK.

Another factor that further complicates the returns process is a lack of documentation. Some illegal immigrants will not have had documents i.e. a passport, when they arrived while others will have purposely destroyed their documents in order to frustrate the returns process.

Updated September 2015

http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/key-topics/illegal-immigration
« Last Edit: July 01, 2016, 01:17:49 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.