Author Topic: Can the UK's lost fishing industry be recovered post Brexit?  (Read 10042 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Carana

Re: Can the UK's lost fishing industry be recovered post Brexit?
« Reply #30 on: July 07, 2016, 01:08:16 PM »
Have faith , in what exactly?


Fish migrate. The boats can only fish in the agreed areas.

Over fishing happens and will happen again.

What exactly does a UK fish look like?

Offline John

Re: Can the UK's lost fishing industry be recovered post Brexit?
« Reply #31 on: July 07, 2016, 01:14:23 PM »
What exactly does a UK fish look like?

 @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*   *&*%£

Carana ffs...    I haven't stopped laughing at that one!   I saw one in the chippy last night...it wasn't a Scottish salmon btw... 

...or was that a sturgeon?      &%+((£
« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 02:43:55 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Carana

Re: Can the UK's lost fishing industry be recovered post Brexit?
« Reply #32 on: July 07, 2016, 01:50:40 PM »
@)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*   *&*%£

Carana ffs...    I haven't stopped laughing at that one!   I saw one in the chippy last night...it wasn't a Scottish salmon btw... 

...or was that a sturgeon?      &%+((£


 @)(++(* Glad I made you smile, John.  8**8:/:

Offline sadie

Re: Can the UK's lost fishing industry be recovered post Brexit?
« Reply #33 on: July 07, 2016, 04:07:36 PM »
@)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*   *&*%£

Carana ffs...    I haven't stopped laughing at that one!   I saw one in the chippy last night...it wasn't a Scottish salmon btw... 

...or was that a sturgeon?      &%+((£
*&*%£

Clever  8@??)(

Offline G-Unit

Re: Can the UK's lost fishing industry be recovered post Brexit?
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2016, 10:12:41 AM »
What exactly does a UK fish look like?

That would be a fish living in the coastal waters of the UK.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Carana

Re: Can the UK's lost fishing industry be recovered post Brexit?
« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2016, 11:25:32 AM »
That would be a fish living in the coastal waters of the UK.

Yes, I realise that, although I'm not sure that anyone has explained to the fish where they are allowed to spend their entire lives, but anyway.


(If anyone had told me a week or two ago that I would be curious about the UK fishing industry, I'd have offered them a thermometer...)


Transboundary stocks
See also: Highly migratory species

Fisheries management, usually adhering to guidelines set by the FAO, provides significant practical mechanisms for the control of EEZs. Transboundary fish stocks are an important concept in this control.[13] Transboundary stocks are fish stocks that range in the EEZs of at least two countries. Straddling stocks, on the other hand, range both within an EEZ as well as in the high seas, outside any EEZ. A stock can be both transboundary and straddling.[14]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone#Transboundary_stocks

There is already a UN convention governing the 200 nmi Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone

So.... in or out of the EU, that UN convention still has to be respected.

From what I can gather, at some point back in time, there was some kind of major gripe leading to various reforms. There are no doubt still some gripes, but how far are they the EU's fault, as opposed to a common - but perhaps misleading - perception?

Therefore, I'm still at a loss as to why UK fishermen seem to be largely Brexiteers (I haven't yet discovered whether this also applies to Scottish fishermen or not.)

What exactly do they stand to gain?












Offline Carana

Re: Can the UK's lost fishing industry be recovered post Brexit?
« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2016, 11:49:43 AM »
Someone mentioned the issue of a massive Dutch trawler the other day.

I've tried to look into that.


That Dutch trawler, the Cornelis Vrolijk, flies under a UK flag and is registered in Hull.

I can understand the argument that fishermen perceived the situation to be unfair, but I still don't understand how the situation was the fault of the EU if a company in one country decides to set up a subsidiary in another country for commercial purposes.

On a different point (unless I've misunderstood this) this trawler wasn't actually some kind of Jaws swooping up the livelihoods of much smaller businesses operating closer to shore for different types of fish / seafood, yet my impression is that that is how it has been portrayed in the media.



A few links:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2854348/One-Dutch-trawler-gets-quarter-England-s-entire-fish-quota-English-fishermen-allowed-two-crates-worth-50.html#ixzz4Do4s1xsp


http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/environment/article4256582.ece

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/half-of-english-fishing-quotas-controlled-by-overseas-firms-9836970.html





« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 11:53:50 AM by Carana »

Offline G-Unit

Re: Can the UK's lost fishing industry be recovered post Brexit?
« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2016, 11:58:39 AM »
I also have had no interest in fish before.  @)(++(*

I looked at Atlantic Cod, which do seem to live in specific areas. I think the EU has allowed other countries to fish our coastal waters under the Common Fisheries Policy.

Spanish trawlers will be allowed into large areas of over-fished waters around Britain and Ireland after the Government yesterday lost its long campaign to keep them out.....Tony Marlowe, one of those who lost the whip for opposing the European Finance Bill said: "It's blackmail. A bunch of foreigners are to decide to whom to allocate British fish. These are British fish in British waters and there is nothing our Government can do short of leaving the Common Fisheries Policy."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/spanish-allowed-to-fish-british-waters-1390475.html

Spanish fish barons admit taking illegal catches in UK waters
Fishermen who flout conservation rules still receive millions in subsidies through a failed European quota system
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/news/spanish-fish-barons-admit-taking-illegal-catches-in-uk-waters-7964246.html
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Carana

Re: Can the UK's lost fishing industry be recovered post Brexit?
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2016, 12:21:45 PM »
I also have had no interest in fish before.  @)(++(*

I looked at Atlantic Cod, which do seem to live in specific areas. I think the EU has allowed other countries to fish our coastal waters under the Common Fisheries Policy.

Spanish trawlers will be allowed into large areas of over-fished waters around Britain and Ireland after the Government yesterday lost its long campaign to keep them out.....Tony Marlowe, one of those who lost the whip for opposing the European Finance Bill said: "It's blackmail. A bunch of foreigners are to decide to whom to allocate British fish. These are British fish in British waters and there is nothing our Government can do short of leaving the Common Fisheries Policy."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/spanish-allowed-to-fish-british-waters-1390475.html

Spanish fish barons admit taking illegal catches in UK waters
Fishermen who flout conservation rules still receive millions in subsidies through a failed European quota system
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/news/spanish-fish-barons-admit-taking-illegal-catches-in-uk-waters-7964246.html


There have no doubt been various parties trying to circumvent regulations or even flagrantly ignoring them - perhaps even some in the UK doing the same to other countries.

However... I still don't see how this is an EU issue.


NB: I've found a UK fish




Offline Carana

Re: Can the UK's lost fishing industry be recovered post Brexit?
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2016, 12:33:55 PM »
Sorry, I can't resist the temptation...   @)(++(*

The Fish knows... Iggy Pop

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-s2INLW2CL0


ETA:

The fish doesn't think. The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows ...
« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 12:49:47 PM by Carana »

Offline Brietta

Re: Can the UK's lost fishing industry be recovered post Brexit?
« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2016, 12:42:15 PM »
Someone mentioned the issue of a massive Dutch trawler the other day.

I've tried to look into that.


That Dutch trawler, the Cornelis Vrolijk, flies under a UK flag and is registered in Hull.

I can understand the argument that fishermen perceived the situation to be unfair, but I still don't understand how the situation was the fault of the EU if a company in one country decides to set up a subsidiary in another country for commercial purposes.

On a different point (unless I've misunderstood this) this trawler wasn't actually some kind of Jaws swooping up the livelihoods of much smaller businesses operating closer to shore for different types of fish / seafood, yet my impression is that that is how it has been portrayed in the media.



A few links:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2854348/One-Dutch-trawler-gets-quarter-England-s-entire-fish-quota-English-fishermen-allowed-two-crates-worth-50.html#ixzz4Do4s1xsp


http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/environment/article4256582.ece

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/half-of-english-fishing-quotas-controlled-by-overseas-firms-9836970.html

It started some time ago and according to John Lichfield's article had its genesis as a result of the outcome of the 'cod wars' with Norway and Iceland extending their territorial waters which excluded British trawlers from traditional fishing grounds.
Which led to British registered invasion of other territorial waters and scant regard for conservation. it's a very complicated business which will require a lot of unravelling and maybe the commissioning of a fleet of gun boats (that should give the shipyards a boost??).

Britain's fishy role in the quota-hopping scandal
Foreign vessels are legally taking a large chunk of the UK's fishing quota. But it is our own government's double-think and double-talk that is to blame rather than the minefield of EU rules, says John Lichfield
John Lichfield Saturday 21 December 1996
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/britains-fishy-role-in-the-quota-hopping-scandal-1315516.html

Atlantic Dawn: The Ship from Hell
“Atlantic Dawn … is the greatest fish killing machine the world has ever seen.” – Charles Clover, The End of the Line. http://britishseafishing.co.uk/atlantic-dawn-the-ship-from-hell/
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline Carana

Re: Can the UK's lost fishing industry be recovered post Brexit?
« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2016, 12:46:22 PM »
It started some time ago and according to John Lichfield's article had its genesis as a result of the outcome of the 'cod wars' with Norway and Iceland extending their territorial waters which excluded British trawlers from traditional fishing grounds.
Which led to British registered invasion of other territorial waters and scant regard for conservation. it's a very complicated business which will require a lot of unravelling and maybe the commissioning of a fleet of gun boats (that should give the shipyards a boost??).

Britain's fishy role in the quota-hopping scandal
Foreign vessels are legally taking a large chunk of the UK's fishing quota. But it is our own government's double-think and double-talk that is to blame rather than the minefield of EU rules, says John Lichfield
John Lichfield Saturday 21 December 1996
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/britains-fishy-role-in-the-quota-hopping-scandal-1315516.html

Atlantic Dawn: The Ship from Hell
“Atlantic Dawn … is the greatest fish killing machine the world has ever seen.” – Charles Clover, The End of the Line. http://britishseafishing.co.uk/atlantic-dawn-the-ship-from-hell/


Thanks, Brietta.

All a bit fishy to me... not least the media portrayal of the issues.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Can the UK's lost fishing industry be recovered post Brexit?
« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2016, 12:58:11 PM »
It started some time ago and according to John Lichfield's article had its genesis as a result of the outcome of the 'cod wars' with Norway and Iceland extending their territorial waters which excluded British trawlers from traditional fishing grounds.
Which led to British registered invasion of other territorial waters and scant regard for conservation. it's a very complicated business which will require a lot of unravelling and maybe the commissioning of a fleet of gun boats (that should give the shipyards a boost??).

Britain's fishy role in the quota-hopping scandal
Foreign vessels are legally taking a large chunk of the UK's fishing quota. But it is our own government's double-think and double-talk that is to blame rather than the minefield of EU rules, says John Lichfield
John Lichfield Saturday 21 December 1996
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/britains-fishy-role-in-the-quota-hopping-scandal-1315516.html

Atlantic Dawn: The Ship from Hell
“Atlantic Dawn … is the greatest fish killing machine the world has ever seen.” – Charles Clover, The End of the Line. http://britishseafishing.co.uk/atlantic-dawn-the-ship-from-hell/

Thank you for the links Brietta.


Not quite the version brxiters would like others to be aware of.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Can the UK's lost fishing industry be recovered post Brexit?
« Reply #43 on: July 08, 2016, 01:29:40 PM »
Thank you for the links Brietta.


Not quite the version brxiters would like others to be aware of.

What the links seem to show is the lack of support by the British Government for the UK fishing industry and the support given by the Irish Government to the building of a super trawler. What either have to do with Brexit I can't quite work out.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Can the UK's lost fishing industry be recovered post Brexit?
« Reply #44 on: July 08, 2016, 01:32:52 PM »
What the links seem to show is the lack of support by the British Government for the UK fishing industry and the support given by the Irish Government to the building of a super trawler. What either have to do with Brexit I can't quite work out.

What is shown, is the system is open to abuse.

Also, you can't just blame the EU for this mess, which Brexiters love to do.