Author Topic: A fresh look at Eddie the cadaver dog and those alerts.  (Read 59323 times)

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Offline misty

Re: A fresh look at Eddie the cadaver dog and those alerts.
« Reply #90 on: July 16, 2016, 12:53:47 AM »
Can you tell me why he didn't bark earlier in the villa, but he barked later in the gym ?

Where did the scent suddenly appear from?

Perhaps the video clip provides the answer to that.

Offline mercury

Re: A fresh look at Eddie the cadaver dog and those alerts.
« Reply #91 on: July 16, 2016, 01:00:31 AM »
Can you tell me why he didn't bark earlier in the villa, but he barked later in the gym ?

Where did the scent suddenly appear from?

No one here is a dog handler and no one is privy to anythng

The clothes were not laid out i ndividually in the villa as they were in the gym
The clothes may have been scrunched up together in the villa with others, tag on any other reason, its all non professional speculation

The actual professional stated it was hs opinion the dogs alerts suggested cadaver scent contaminant

Those are the facts

Davel said he was gong toemail hm a couple days ago, maybe ask him how he got along

 8)-)))

Nite now
« Last Edit: July 16, 2016, 01:13:52 AM by mercury »

Offline Mr Gray

Re: A fresh look at Eddie the cadaver dog and those alerts.
« Reply #92 on: July 16, 2016, 08:38:53 AM »
No one here is a dog handler and no one is privy to anythng

The clothes were not laid out i ndividually in the villa as they were in the gym
The clothes may have been scrunched up together in the villa with others, tag on any other reason, its all non professional speculation

The actual professional stated it was hs opinion the dogs alerts suggested cadaver scent contaminant

Those are the facts

Davel said he was gong toemail hm a couple days ago, maybe ask him how he got along

 8)-)))

Nite now

this is what Grime said..

My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is
suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant. This does not however
suggest a motive or suspect as cross contamination could be as a result of a
number of given scenarios and in any event no evidential or intelligence
reliability can be made from these alerts unless they can be confirmed with
corroborating evidence.



no evidential or intelligence reliability....pretty useless then

Offline mercury

Re: A fresh look at Eddie the cadaver dog and those alerts.
« Reply #93 on: July 17, 2016, 11:39:05 PM »
Why did uk police recommend the dogs be sent in in the first place if it was such a pointless exercise?



Offline pathfinder73

Re: A fresh look at Eddie the cadaver dog and those alerts.
« Reply #94 on: July 18, 2016, 02:29:05 AM »
SY had them back so they trust the doggies.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pegasus

Re: A fresh look at Eddie the cadaver dog and those alerts.
« Reply #95 on: July 18, 2016, 03:10:33 AM »
Recently a VR dog alerted to an area of ground in a USA case. Digging revealed a buried animal. So why did the dog alert?  There is a reason - and it shows how good these dogs are - Pathfinder and Misty will probably get it.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2016, 03:14:58 AM by pegasus »

Offline sadie

Re: A fresh look at Eddie the cadaver dog and those alerts.
« Reply #96 on: July 18, 2016, 07:25:40 AM »
Recently a VR dog alerted to an area of ground in a USA case. Digging revealed a buried animal. So why did the dog alert?  There is a reason - and it shows how good these dogs are - Pathfinder and Misty will probably get it.

The animal was a pig ?

Offline pathfinder73

Re: A fresh look at Eddie the cadaver dog and those alerts.
« Reply #97 on: July 18, 2016, 12:06:39 PM »
If Grime has been discussing this case privately and you are posting his views on a public forum he needn't worry about keeping his powder dry ...he would have disqualified himself as an expert witness

MG has never posted his views on a public forum but educating you about his dogs is a full time job. He is an expert witness. And others using the Zapata case as example of cadaver dogs being wrong certainly backfired  @)(++(*
« Last Edit: July 18, 2016, 12:10:54 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: A fresh look at Eddie the cadaver dog and those alerts.
« Reply #98 on: July 18, 2016, 12:44:38 PM »
MG has never posted his views on a public forum but educating you about his dogs is a full time job. He is an expert witness. And others using the Zapata case as example of cadaver dogs being wrong certainly backfired  @)(++(*
Without wishing to divert the thread, what is the requirement for someone to qualify as an expert witness in a UK court of criminal law?

I ask this for a simple reason.  If I was sitting on a jury and the judge permitted Martin Grime to be classed as an expert witness, then the judge would find himself/herself short of a juror, unless considerable questions about Mr Grime's expertise, the dogs' capability, the dogs' training and testing, and the dogs' deployment in this and other cases were resolved satisfactorily.

Despite reading multiple dogs threads in multiple places, I have yet to see one that leads me to elevate Mr Grime to the status of 'expert', or to convince me to put faith in the dogs.  That information may exist, but if it does so, it is not in the public domain, IMO.

I would expect to see Mr Grime undergoing an extensive grilling by any half-competent barrister.  As to whether Mr Grime would pass muster or die a flame-roasted death, who knows.
What's up, old man?

Offline Brietta

Re: A fresh look at Eddie the cadaver dog and those alerts.
« Reply #99 on: July 18, 2016, 03:36:29 PM »
Without wishing to divert the thread, what is the requirement for someone to qualify as an expert witness in a UK court of criminal law?

I ask this for a simple reason.  If I was sitting on a jury and the judge permitted Martin Grime to be classed as an expert witness, then the judge would find himself/herself short of a juror, unless considerable questions about Mr Grime's expertise, the dogs' capability, the dogs' training and testing, and the dogs' deployment in this and other cases were resolved satisfactorily.

Despite reading multiple dogs threads in multiple places, I have yet to see one that leads me to elevate Mr Grime to the status of 'expert', or to convince me to put faith in the dogs.  That information may exist, but if it does so, it is not in the public domain, IMO.

I would expect to see Mr Grime undergoing an extensive grilling by any half-competent barrister.  As to whether Mr Grime would pass muster or die a flame-roasted death, who knows.

It is my belief that as an accredited police dog handler Martin Grime is indeed considered an expert in his field even when retired.
I think the question lies not with his personal expertise but with the reliability and performance in training of his dogs.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: A fresh look at Eddie the cadaver dog and those alerts.
« Reply #100 on: July 18, 2016, 03:41:53 PM »
Recently a VR dog alerted to an area of ground in a USA case. Digging revealed a buried animal. So why did the dog alert?  There is a reason - and it shows how good these dogs are - Pathfinder and Misty will probably get it.

If it is the case I am thinking about the animal was bovine.  There were human remains underneath.  If memory serves me well the remains were indeterminate but certainly not the target being sought.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Eleanor

Re: A fresh look at Eddie the cadaver dog and those alerts.
« Reply #101 on: July 18, 2016, 04:21:23 PM »

In certain States of America the Judges demand a history of the dogs and their training schedules and success rates.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: A fresh look at Eddie the cadaver dog and those alerts.
« Reply #102 on: July 18, 2016, 05:28:53 PM »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Mr Gray


Offline Mr Gray

Re: A fresh look at Eddie the cadaver dog and those alerts.
« Reply #104 on: July 18, 2016, 06:10:26 PM »
"Training records are maintained and are available if required."

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES_PERSONAL.htm

this is the part I like from your link...


Homicide investigation. I develop methods of detecting forensically recoverable

evidence by the use of dogs and facilitate training.



the dogs are trained to recover evidence...that is there purpose