Author Topic: Should Jeremy Bamber ever be released?  (Read 38984 times)

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Offline Outlook

Re: Should Jeremy Bamber ever be released?
« Reply #90 on: April 13, 2013, 04:15:15 PM »
I know who Patti is but not Lookout but I always found her "unrealistic."

You don't need to respect me as I suspect I am not your elder.

I did not mean to bite.  It is easy mistake to make.  I thought I was being quite clever at the time.

All the best. 8((()*/

Offline Eleanor

Re: Should Jeremy Bamber ever be released?
« Reply #91 on: April 29, 2013, 12:46:23 PM »

Should Jeremy Bamber ever be released?

There seems to be some rule whereby people like him don't get released until they admit their guilt.  This could be a bit of a problem if some of them weren't guilty, which likely, some of them weren't.  So I think this rule is wrong, if in fact it exists at all.  Although I suspect it might.

So, yep, I think he should be released eventually.

From what I have read here, it seems to me as though the whole family were cracked, although I would be reluctant to blame his parents for him killing them and the rest of the family.

No one is born evil, but life does bad things to some, while others hack it.  And I hope that I am not an entirely judgemental person.

Offline starryian

Re: Should Jeremy Bamber ever be released?
« Reply #92 on: April 30, 2013, 02:47:29 AM »
I really cannot agree with you on this one Eleanor. Jeremy Bamber was found guilty of the cold blooded murder of 4 members of his own family - two of them were young children. Since his conviction in 1986, this man has repeatedly threatened, manipulated and lied to people. I belive that this man presents a danger to the surviving relatives and witnesses and had made thinly-veiled threats towards them for the last 26 years. During an interview for her book on the case author Claire Powell repeatedly heard him say about cousin David Boutflour - "he'll pay for it'. There seemed to be a lot of people in Bamber's past that he has threatened that they will "pay for it"
Moreover, if you take the view that he is guilty - and there is no viable reason not to - then this man is a psychopathic, cunning and dangerous individual that will stop at nothing to achieve his ends. Unlike you I believe that this man was born evil. From his earliest days he displayed the arrogant, callous self-centredness that marked him as a vile bully at school. Having looked at Bamber's life one can only come to the conclusion that he never, ever undertook any act that helped anyone but himself. Nothing good can be said of him or his actions towards others. He went through most of his life hurting others and leaving a trail of misery to those that he wanted something from - including his own family. He mistreated them with breathtaking and heartless callousness. He bullied his own mother and sister unmercifully, treated his adoptive father with utter distain and thought the twin boys were destined to become mentally ill and were unfit to live. He honestly believed that by killing his family he was "doing everyone a favour".
For the lives he brutally ended, the lives that this warped and callous ingrate deliberately destroyed, for the pain and suffering that he has caused so many others and the clear and present danger he still represents to those that are still alive, I firmly believe that he should remain behind bars permanently  The law has a bounden duty to protect the innocent and not allow the guilty the very freedom that he readily denied to others. This is not justice.  I strongly believe that this man should never, ever see the light of day again.
Starryian..

Offline Eleanor

Re: Should Jeremy Bamber ever be released?
« Reply #93 on: April 30, 2013, 11:28:56 AM »

I have to admit, Ian, that I don't feel that strongly about releasing him, only perhaps that everyone should have a little hope.  But then anything I can say would be trite.  Put it down to left over vestiges of when I believed he was innocent.

I doubt I've ever met a truly evil person, but I did have dealings with a sociopath at one time, and that wasn't very funny, although it took me some time to realise..  I didn't have The Internet in those day, otherwise I might have cottoned on a bit sooner.

Offline starryian

Re: Should Jeremy Bamber ever be released?
« Reply #94 on: April 30, 2013, 03:33:28 PM »

I have to admit, Ian, that I don't feel that strongly about releasing him, only perhaps that everyone should have a little hope.  But then anything I can say would be trite.  Put it down to left over vestiges of when I believed he was innocent.

I doubt I've ever met a truly evil person, but I did have dealings with a sociopath at one time, and that wasn't very funny, although it took me some time to realise..  I didn't have The Internet in those day, otherwise I might have cottoned on a bit sooner.
Thanks for your thoughts Eleanor,
Yes I totally understand. I also had some dealings with a psychopath - a one time female boss of mine. I learned a great deal about truly evil, manipulative, controlling people such as her. Luckily, I came away pretty much unscathed although many others sadly could not say the same thing. It led me to thinking about all the other victims of these people. There must be literally thousands upon thousands, most of whom probably did not know they were the victim of such people. I believe that these people contribute to a disproportionate amount of crime to their actual numbers and cause untold misery and suffering to many, many people. I also believe that education here is the key. The the very thing that allows a Psychopaths/sociopaths to be so successful is stealth. People truly do not know they are being used, victimised or earmarked by a psychopath until it's too late. Most people - including myself - would probably not be able to identify one if they met one in the street tomorrow. I have it on good authority that, if you scratch just below the surface there are clue which can be a giveaway. For example a psychopath is extremely superficial. They have just a passing knowledge about many topics and can appear to the casual observer to be highly intelligent and knowledgeable about lots of different things. However, if they are questioned in-depth about it, they will very quickly change the subject or walk away. They use their surface knowledge to impress and trick people into trusting or liking them.
They also have a highly inflated opinion of their own importance. Many people will dismiss this as being a little 'bigheaded' or even supremely confident. This may be true in many cases but it could also be a clue that you are dealing with a psychopath. In their own mind they are never wrong. This is why they have little problem breaking the law. Laws to them are made by the feeble-minded and weak. In fact any moral values are made by weak-willed, gullible people. It very well might have been a psychopath that coined the term 'laws are made to be broken'
They have no moral compass of any kind. They have absolutely no remorse, conscience or empathy and they pour scorn on those that do. They see ordinary people as 'suckers' ready to be taken advantage of. Of course not all psychopaths go on to murder someone. Their are psychopaths in the workplace, many of whom aspire to top positions within a company and will often leave a trail of deceipt and destruction in their wake. They are to be found in every walk of life, usually with the same result.
In short, these monsters are despicable individuals that ruin and/or destroy innocent people lives.
Starryian..

Offline Joanne

Re: Should Jeremy Bamber ever be released?
« Reply #95 on: April 30, 2013, 03:34:23 PM »
StarryIan-5, love, 5!

Offline Eleanor

Re: Should Jeremy Bamber ever be released?
« Reply #96 on: April 30, 2013, 04:03:50 PM »

I didn't escape quite so unscathed, Ian.  Although I did escape eventually.  But more by the fact that he dumped me because I was no longer prepared to fund his life style, due to the fact that I could no longer afford to. 
Oh, what shame.  He ended the relationship, and not me.  But that is just wounded pride.  I never got to kick him in the goollies.  I never had any closure for me.

He is dead now, but I can't say that this fact is much consolation.  I don't actually believe in an avenging God, and I don't think I want to.

Offline Iggy68

Re: Should Jeremy Bamber ever be released?
« Reply #97 on: May 08, 2013, 02:21:17 PM »
I really cannot agree with you on this one Eleanor. Jeremy Bamber was found guilty of the cold blooded murder of 4 members of his own family - two of them were young children. Since his conviction in 1986, this man has repeatedly threatened, manipulated and lied to people. I belive that this man presents a danger to the surviving relatives and witnesses and had made thinly-veiled threats towards them for the last 26 years. During an interview for her book on the case author Claire Powell repeatedly heard him say about cousin David Boutflour - "he'll pay for it'. There seemed to be a lot of people in Bamber's past that he has threatened that they will "pay for it"
Moreover, if you take the view that he is guilty - and there is no viable reason not to - then this man is a psychopathic, cunning and dangerous individual that will stop at nothing to achieve his ends. Unlike you I believe that this man was born evil. From his earliest days he displayed the arrogant, callous self-centredness that marked him as a vile bully at school. Having looked at Bamber's life one can only come to the conclusion that he never, ever undertook any act that helped anyone but himself. Nothing good can be said of him or his actions towards others. He went through most of his life hurting others and leaving a trail of misery to those that he wanted something from - including his own family. He mistreated them with breathtaking and heartless callousness. He bullied his own mother and sister unmercifully, treated his adoptive father with utter distain and thought the twin boys were destined to become mentally ill and were unfit to live. He honestly believed that by killing his family he was "doing everyone a favour".
For the lives he brutally ended, the lives that this warped and callous ingrate deliberately destroyed, for the pain and suffering that he has caused so many others and the clear and present danger he still represents to those that are still alive, I firmly believe that he should remain behind bars permanently  The law has a bounden duty to protect the innocent and not allow the guilty the very freedom that he readily denied to others. This is not justice.  I strongly believe that this man should never, ever see the light of day again.

 
While i agree with you starryian i must say that i wonder how silly it would be for Bamber to exact any revenge if he were to be release... If he had any sense he'd stay well clear of any of the family

Offline Eleanor

Re: Should Jeremy Bamber ever be released?
« Reply #98 on: May 08, 2013, 02:41:31 PM »

A bit of a Catch 22.  If he wants people to believe that he is innocent then he dare not do anything.  Or else he will damn himself.
Not that I care all that much about him personally.  It's more academic really.  Plotting revenge is often more satisfying than actually doing it, at least for most sane people.

Offline starryian

Re: Should Jeremy Bamber ever be released?
« Reply #99 on: May 08, 2013, 05:17:32 PM »
I really cannot agree with you on this one Eleanor. Jeremy Bamber was found guilty of the cold blooded murder of 4 members of his own family - two of them were young children. Since his conviction in 1986, this man has repeatedly threatened, manipulated and lied to people. I belive that this man presents a danger to the surviving relatives and witnesses and had made thinly-veiled threats towards them for the last 26 years. During an interview for her book on the case author Claire Powell repeatedly heard him say about cousin David Boutflour - "he'll pay for it'. There seemed to be a lot of people in Bamber's past that he has threatened that they will "pay for it"
Moreover, if you take the view that he is guilty - and there is no viable reason not to - then this man is a psychopathic, cunning and dangerous individual that will stop at nothing to achieve his ends. Unlike you I believe that this man was born evil. From his earliest days he displayed the arrogant, callous self-centredness that marked him as a vile bully at school. Having looked at Bamber's life one can only come to the conclusion that he never, ever undertook any act that helped anyone but himself. Nothing good can be said of him or his actions towards others. He went through most of his life hurting others and leaving a trail of misery to those that he wanted something from - including his own family. He mistreated them with breathtaking and heartless callousness. He bullied his own mother and sister unmercifully, treated his adoptive father with utter distain and thought the twin boys were destined to become mentally ill and were unfit to live. He honestly believed that by killing his family he was "doing everyone a favour".
For the lives he brutally ended, the lives that this warped and callous ingrate deliberately destroyed, for the pain and suffering that he has caused so many others and the clear and present danger he still represents to those that are still alive, I firmly believe that he should remain behind bars permanently  The law has a bounden duty to protect the innocent and not allow the guilty the very freedom that he readily denied to others. This is not justice.  I strongly believe that this man should never, ever see the light of day again.

 
While i agree with you starryian i must say that i wonder how silly it would be for Bamber to exact any revenge if he were to be release... If he had any sense he'd stay well clear of any of the family
Ordinarily I would wholeheartedly agree with you Iggy,
But Jeremy Bamber is anything but ordinary. The murders themselves were - at least from a logical standpoint -incredibly stupid. Bamber had often told anyone who would listen how much he hated his family. His own father became deeply suspicious of him, he was roundly loathed by his relatives for his arrogant sense of self-importance. He burgled the family caravan park - with a witness, and behaved so callously after the murders that he practically invited suspicion at every turn. People often cite that he 'nearly got away with it' This is only part of the story. He nearly got away with it because of something that he simply could not have predicted - the appalling shoddy manner in which the police investigated the crime. The crime scene was compromised, evidence was lost and conclusions were hastily jumped to. It was not so much Bamber's cunning but police ineptitude that almost let him slip through the net. The evidence, if handled properly and with skill could have exposed Bamber for what he was - a psychopathic murderer. A cowardly, inept, arrogant greedy wastrel would have been apprehended sooner that what he was.
I have no doubt that this arrogant ingrate would think that he could wreak his vengence if he were ever to be released. It would be no more stupid and unfathomable than his firm belief that he could brutally murder 5 people, be the lone survivor who inherits everything and get clean away with it.
Starryian..

Offline Tim Invictus

Re: Should Jeremy Bamber ever be released?
« Reply #100 on: May 08, 2013, 05:37:34 PM »

A bit of a Catch 22.  If he wants people to believe that he is innocent then he dare not do anything.  Or else he will damn himself.
Not that I care all that much about him personally.  It's more academic really.  Plotting revenge is often more satisfying than actually doing it, at least for most sane people.

I don't find it a Catch 22 at all Eleanor. Bamber has been proven to be guilty at trial.That is a fact in the eyes of the law. Bamber has to challenge that through the Court of Appeal if he wants to change that fact in the eyes of the law. He has had a myriad of opportunities to challenge the guilty verdict and no doubt he will continue to do so however futile that effort will surely be!

Having challenged his conviction and failed it is in my opinion right and proper that the law treat Bamber as guilty beyond any doubt. There can be no wiggle room just in case he may have been a victim of a Miscarriage Of Justice; that is something for the COA/CCRC to address and they have done so in detail.

Innocent until proven guilty then guilty until proven innocent!


Offline Eleanor

Re: Should Jeremy Bamber ever be released?
« Reply #101 on: May 08, 2013, 06:09:06 PM »

A bit of a Catch 22.  If he wants people to believe that he is innocent then he dare not do anything.  Or else he will damn himself.
Not that I care all that much about him personally.  It's more academic really.  Plotting revenge is often more satisfying than actually doing it, at least for most sane people.

I don't find it a Catch 22 at all Eleanor. Bamber has been proven to be guilty at trial.That is a fact in the eyes of the law. Bamber has to challenge that through the Court of Appeal if he wants to change that fact in the eyes of the law. He has had a myriad of opportunities to challenge the guilty verdict and no doubt he will continue to do so however futile that effort will surely be!

Having challenged his conviction and failed it is in my opinion right and proper that the law treat Bamber as guilty beyond any doubt. There can be no wiggle room just in case he may have been a victim of a Miscarriage Of Justice; that is something for the COA/CCRC to address and they have done so in detail.

Innocent until proven guilty then guilty until proven innocent!

I meant the possibility of him extracting revenge if they ever let him out.  He is hardly likely to get away with that.  Or do you think he is that stupid?
I don't really understand psychopaths, but then who does?  Although I did assume that they were a bit more clever than he turned out to be.  In the end he was the instrument of his own destruction.
But then the whole family were a bit weird, in my opinion.
Could they have exacerbated an underlying condition in him, do you think?
Not that this would have been any excuse for killing them, of course.

Offline Tim Invictus

Re: Should Jeremy Bamber ever be released?
« Reply #102 on: May 08, 2013, 06:44:30 PM »
I don't think the Bamber family was particularly dysfunctional in the scheme of things. Neville was a pillar of society, a JP and an ex RAF fighterpilot. June and Sheila certainly had their problems true but both were eminently decent people!,

Offline Eleanor

Re: Should Jeremy Bamber ever be released?
« Reply #103 on: May 08, 2013, 06:48:34 PM »

Perhaps he minded being abandoned by his birth mother.  I knew someone who was abandoned, and he never got over it.  He used it as an excuse for being a really nasty person.  Although he was given a good life by adoptive parents.

Offline Iggy68

Re: Should Jeremy Bamber ever be released?
« Reply #104 on: May 08, 2013, 06:56:45 PM »

Perhaps he minded being abandoned by his birth mother.  I knew someone who was abandoned, and he never got over it.  He used it as an excuse for being a really nasty person.  Although he was given a good life by adoptive parents.

 
i dont think Jeremy's condition stemmed from a sense of abandonment.... his conceit is more indicative of a spoilt brat