The role of The British tour operators in the MM case.

[G-Unit]

What we are specifically examining is whether the British tour operators deliberately suppressed incidences of child molestations and accidents prior to the McCann incident.  We are not considering the sensibility of leaving the apartment unlocked.  We are looking at facts of events that happened prior and whether they were divulged.
Were they reported to the police?  Did the police inform the British authorities? Did the British authorities inform travelers to that country?  So there is quite a few players but Kate seems to be blaming the tour operators, so that must mean the Police were not informed or the incidents were downplayed in someway. 
It is quite a tricky topic but it is one that should be able to be proven one way or the other.

According to Kate McCann she was told about the incidents on 4th May by the British Consul. Later she claims to have found references to the incidents in the PJ files. Also;

I got in touch with the retired British consul for the Algarve. He told me that he used to have regular monthly meetings with British tour operators along the coast in Albufeira, at which crime was invariably one of the topics covered. At one of these meetings in August 2006 he had been informed by the tour operators of the spate of incidents I’d heard about the day after Madeleine was taken, in which an intruder had got into holiday apartments at night, climbed into children’s beds and subjected them to various forms and degrees of molestation.
Madeleine Kate McCann.

So if they attended these meetings the Ocean Club management may have had knowledge of these incidents. In 2006 the management wasn't Mark Warner. The Consul was aware but seems to have done nothing to make holidaymakers aware apart from sharing his concerns with a parent after her child disappeared.

[stephen25000]

the other sayings are the "the last straw" and "the straw that broke the camel's back".  This to me has the appearance of being a very important straw, one where I think in end the tour operators may need to reimburse the UK government for all the expenses used in the MM case.

Now tell me what crimes have a direct link to the Mccann case ?

Next, if the Mccanns had no concerns about crime, why did they lock their apartment during the daytime ?

[G-Unit]

the other sayings are the "the last straw" and "the straw that broke the camel's back".  This to me has the appearance of being a very important straw, one where I think in end the tour operators may need to reimburse the UK government for all the expenses used in the MM case.

What an absurd idea! How much responsibility can you put onto a tour operator? They are responsible only for things they can control, such as activities and equipment. They can't be held responsible if daft holidaymakers fail to take basic precautions to safeguard their belongings.

[stephen25000]

What an absurd idea! How much responsibility can you put onto a tour operator? They are responsible only for things they can control, such as activities and equipment. They can't be held responsible if daft holidaymakers fail to take basic precautions to safeguard their belongings.

Precisely the case G-Unit.

[Robittybob1]

According to Kate McCann she was told about the incidents on 4th May by the British Consul. Later she claims to have found references to the incidents in the PJ files. Also;

I got in touch with the retired British consul for the Algarve. He told me that he used to have regular monthly meetings with British tour operators along the coast in Albufeira, at which crime was invariably one of the topics covered. At one of these meetings in August 2006 he had been informed by the tour operators of the spate of incidents I’d heard about the day after Madeleine was taken, in which an intruder had got into holiday apartments at night, climbed into children’s beds and subjected them to various forms and degrees of molestation.
Madeleine Kate McCann.

So if they attended these meetings the Ocean Club management may have had knowledge of these incidents. In 2006 the management wasn't Mark Warner. The Consul was aware but seems to have done nothing to make holidaymakers aware apart from sharing his concerns with a parent after her child disappeared.

I see your point.  When she is writing this passage on page 364 she is remembering back to a previous incident where she was told  of the "spate of incidents"  but having it reconfirmed in 2008 with evidence.

[Angelo222]

To be fair, the molestation cases appear to be extremely few and far between and did not occur anywhere near Luz.  However, both Mark Warner and Ocean Club Estates had a duty of care towards their clients and given that there had been burglaries at the complex tourists should have been alerted to take extra care.

There is no evidence this happened.

[Robittybob1]

What an absurd idea! How much responsibility can you put onto a tour operator? They are responsible only for things they can control, such as activities and equipment. They can't be held responsible if daft holidaymakers fail to take basic precautions to safeguard their belongings.

I have intentions to explain this.
I am planning to show that the staff in all probability were aware of a previous incident that night that had a direct bearing on the MM case, and the fact that it wasn't divulged meant the MM case has gone unresolved for nine and a half years.

[ShiningInLuz]

There's an awful lot of loose cannons in this thread.

Were any of the arrivals, whether Mark Warner, Thomas Cook or others given direction to take standard security precautions?

What information did the consul have access to, and what was imparted to tour operators?  Which tour operators attended these briefings?  What did said tour operators impart to their clients?

What was the real OC record re thefts, burglaries and molestation of children?  There appears to be one theft that may or may not have been a burglary.  And Mrs Fenn's seemingly non-reported incident.

From memory, after Crimewatch 2013 didn't OG claim there had been 1 previous sexual molestation incident in Luz itself, without provision of further details, but had that been reported at the time?

[stephen25000]

I have intentions to explain this.
I am planning to show that the staff in all probability were aware of a previous incident that night that had a direct bearing on the MM case, and the fact that it wasn't divulged meant the MM case has gone unresolved for nine and a half years.

Your last sentence is pure speculation and merely an opinion.

[Robittybob1]

There's an awful lot of loose cannons in this thread.

Were any of the arrivals, whether Mark Warner, Thomas Cook or others given direction to take standard security precautions?

What information did the consul have access to, and what was imparted to tour operators?  Which tour operators attended these briefings?  What did said tour operators impart to their clients?

What was the real OC record re thefts, burglaries and molestation of children?  There appears to be one theft that may or may not have been a burglary.  And Mrs Fenn's seemingly non-reported incident.

From memory, after Crimewatch 2013 didn't OG claim there had been 1 previous sexual molestation incident in Luz itself, without provision of further details, but had that been reported at the time?

It is possible for that incident ("previous sexual molestation incident in Luz") to be unknown to the OC or Mark Warner staff.  It would have to be an incident that there could be extremely low possibility that the management staff in all probability are unaware of.

By saying "in all probability" I hope to show there are enough discrepancies that there appears to have been a cover-up of a prior incident.  I can't prove the prior incident but the sheer number of irregularities is suggestive of a cover-up that should be investigated by Operation Grange.

[John]

Stephen made a good point earlier, there are few if any places in the world which are crime free. That said however, my view is that the guests at OC were lulled into a false sense of security and that appears to be confirmed by later comments.  I would say that OC and MW were complacent and failed in their duty of care.  At the very least security measures and procedures could have been put in place to deter unwanted intruders.

[John]

I have intentions to explain this.
I am planning to show that the staff in all probability were aware of a previous incident that night that had a direct bearing on the MM case, and the fact that it wasn't divulged meant the MM case has gone unresolved for nine and a half years.

I see no connection?

[Robittybob1]

I see no connection?

Is it possible for you to explain your view a little more? I am just looking at evidence suggestive of a cover-up not the possible incident covered up.

[John]

Is it possible for you to explain your view a little more? I am just looking at evidence suggestive of a cover-up not the possible incident covered up.

I can't see any connection between a prior incident which might or might not have taken place and the inability to solve the Madeleine disappearance.  Am I missing something Rob?

[stephen25000]

Stephen made a good point earlier, there are few if any places in the world which are crime free. That said however, my view is that the guests at OC were lulled into a false sense of security and that appears to be confirmed by later comments.  I would say that OC and MW were complacent and failed in their duty of care.  At the very least security measures and procedures could have been put in place to deter unwanted intruders.

Yet John, the apartment was locked during daytime.

Therefore they had 'concerns' over security.

Why didn't this extend to their children in the evening ?