Author Topic: The role of The British tour operators in the MM case.  (Read 33252 times)

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Offline G-Unit

Re: The role of The British tour operators in the MM case.
« Reply #60 on: August 18, 2016, 08:47:40 PM »
Only the Brits could think it was not their responsibility to take care of their possessions and valuables and to lock up, without being told to do so by a third party ............nanny state or what ?
The average Brit should not even bother taking out insurance. They would invalidate it by their own actions; Oh I didn't realise I had to lock up and set the alarm. The estate agent who acted for the vendor of the house didn't tell me I should do that or that there had been burglaries in the area, nor did the vendor. How should I know it was risky?
You can imagine how that will go down that on a claims form can't you?

Precisely. Some people think we're all as credulous as they are. I've lived in and visited some very quiet places but not once have I gone out leaving my doors and windows unsecured. I have never been burgled. Going out for a meal and leaving my children sleeping in an unlocked apartment? Ha ha ha. One thing most parents learn very quickly is that children can get into mischief in seconds in the next room!
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: The role of The British tour operators in the MM case.
« Reply #61 on: August 19, 2016, 07:33:10 AM »
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4538.msg167613#msg167613 is about  the best summary for the MW and OC side of the argument.

[Libel deleted.]
« Last Edit: August 19, 2016, 11:16:32 AM by ShiningInLuz »
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Offline Angelo222

Re: The role of The British tour operators in the MM case.
« Reply #62 on: August 19, 2016, 03:23:47 PM »

There is evidence that a child disappeared from her bedroom within a holiday apartment as well as evidence of an intruder.

Perhaps issues such as appropriate lighting ... security of apartment keys ... security patrols along the lines of those instituted in the open resort after Madeleine's disappearance might have had an effect had they been in force. 
The height of the balcony or lack of it is in my opinion an irrelevance.


If you are referring to the open window and shutter as evidence of an intruder then that is not supported by the forensics.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Brietta

Re: The role of The British tour operators in the MM case.
« Reply #63 on: August 19, 2016, 04:19:48 PM »
If you are referring to the open window and shutter as evidence of an intruder then that is not supported by the forensics.

There is the absolute nonsense which was reported and easily still found online of which not a shred was true  ...

Blood

There is also the evidence of a "partial footwear mark" found just outside Madeleine's bedroom which had traces of blood in it visible to the naked eye, according to a forensics report.

Laboratory tests in Birmingham were inconclusive but found there was a "moderate" chance the blood was the youngster's. There were also specks of blood said to be on the walls of the bedroom, but forensic results have been inconclusive.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id21.html



But there is not so much about what was actually found in the first and undoubtedly most important forensic tests taken in the apartment shortly after Madeleine's disappearance.

If these initial tests were inadequate or botched the potential damage to resolving Madeleine's case is immeasurable.

I don't know if the technology of the time would have allowed for DNA to be recovered from the inadequate or smeared fingerprints ... but how difficult would it have been to have stored the glass and shutters where the prints were found (I believe they may have retained Malinka's furniture?) particularly as they did remove the window frames at one stage.

One can only surmise that the lack of a report detailing what was found or not found on the outside of the glass can mean only one thing, and that is that no further dusting of the glass occurred.

One can hardly expect evidence of an intruder to be found if no-one bothers to look for it in the first instance,


(quote)
Report by Joao Barreiras, Assistant Specialist 2007/05/04
 
At apartment 5A, Ocean Club: Inside glass of the window in the children's bedroom. Five prints were recovered; three of the middle finger of the left hand and two of the index finger of the left hand of the mother of the missing child.
Only the inside of the glass was examined at this time due the fact that it was night and the location was sealed until there was sufficient light to allow the examination of the residence to be completed.
 
 
Report by Irene Trovão, Assistant Specialist 2007/05/04
 
At 11:00am on 4 May 2007 I, IT, assistant-specialist, began to examine the following location:
At apartment 5A, Ocean Club:
- Side of the patio door: One adequate print recovered but not matched to known persons.
- Outside of one patio door: Eight inadequate prints were recovered.
- Outside of [the other] patio door: One inadequate print was recovered.
- Outside of the external blinds to the children's bedroom: Three inadequate prints were recovered.
 
 
Report by Irene Trovão, Assistant Specialist 2007/05/18
 

This morning Officer Silva delivered various fingerprints belonging to his officers who were on duty at the apartment on the night of 3 – 4 May 2007.
These were compared to the finger print which was identified as being that of Nelson Filipe Pacheco da Costa of the Lagos GNR.


Five fingerprints belonging to Kate McCann were found on the inside of the window, which isn’t unusual for someone who was residing in the apartment. But these are not the only fingerprints that were found. The fingerprints report also mentions three inadequate fingerprints found on the outside of the shutters. The report doesn't mention the outside of the window and the inside of the shutters ever being examined or the doorknobs. (end quote)
http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39077415/Rebuttal%20of%20%22Fact%22%201
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline John

Re: The role of The British tour operators in the MM case.
« Reply #64 on: August 22, 2016, 03:56:26 PM »
Posters are reminded not to stray too far from the topic headings.  As per standing orders, offending posts will be removed as soon as they are identified.  It is not always possible to reassign these posts.

Please take care when responding to posts as a single misplaced comment can take a thread off at a tangent.  TY
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 01:00:30 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: The role of The British tour operators in the MM case.
« Reply #65 on: August 23, 2016, 03:59:56 AM »
No matter how many extra free weeks of accommodation OC granted the McCanns it still will not make up for their mistakes IMO.  It makes me feel like they think they can buy your kids off you. 
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Offline G-Unit

Re: The role of The British tour operators in the MM case.
« Reply #66 on: August 23, 2016, 08:47:37 AM »
No matter how many extra free weeks of accommodation OC granted the McCanns it still will not make up for their mistakes IMO.  It makes me feel like they think they can buy your kids off you.

I don't know if any mistakes were made by OC/MW but their prime concern following Madeleine's disappearance was their reputation. That's understandable if you read their online reviews. I have seen criticism of their food, accommodation, staff and sports facilities, but most people praise their child care arrangements.

One thing the management must have been very aware of is that their employees, according to Matthew Oldfield, agreed to place the group next to each other so they could operate their own listening service. A resort employee was also told this was happening on 29th April and she allegedly asked another employee to confirm it was OK to grant a booking for the week at the Tapas because of it.

It certainly wasn't MW's fault that the group chose to leave their kids home alone. The question is whether they should have intervened either at the time of booking or at the resort?
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: The role of The British tour operators in the MM case.
« Reply #67 on: August 23, 2016, 11:00:29 AM »
I'm doing critical analysis of the file records for traces of responsibility
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Offline jassi

Re: The role of The British tour operators in the MM case.
« Reply #68 on: August 23, 2016, 12:29:07 PM »
I don't know if any mistakes were made by OC/MW but their prime concern following Madeleine's disappearance was their reputation. That's understandable if you read their online reviews. I have seen criticism of their food, accommodation, staff and sports facilities, but most people praise their child care arrangements.

One thing the management must have been very aware of is that their employees, according to Matthew Oldfield, agreed to place the group next to each other so they could operate their own listening service. A resort employee was also told this was happening on 29th April and she allegedly asked another employee to confirm it was OK to grant a booking for the week at the Tapas because of it.

It certainly wasn't MW's fault that the group chose to leave their kids home alone. The question is whether they should have intervened either at the time of booking or at the resort?

Do you think any of the Tapas group would have taken any notice if they had ?
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Robittybob1

Re: The role of The British tour operators in the MM case.
« Reply #69 on: August 23, 2016, 12:34:50 PM »
Do you think any of the Tapas group would have taken any notice if they had ?
Part of the 57 page summary "http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm says the Portuguese were satisfied with the level of checking the Tapas group did on their kids.
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Offline G-Unit

Re: The role of The British tour operators in the MM case.
« Reply #70 on: August 23, 2016, 05:56:51 PM »
Part of the 57 page summary "http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm says the Portuguese were satisfied with the level of checking the Tapas group did on their kids.

Does it?

the parents were not persistently worried about their children [and] that they didn't check on them like they afterwards declared they did, rather neglecting their duty to guard those same children, although not in a temerarious, or gross, manner.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: The role of The British tour operators in the MM case.
« Reply #71 on: August 23, 2016, 06:12:16 PM »
Does it?

the parents were not persistently worried about their children [and] that they didn't check on them like they afterwards declared they did, rather neglecting their duty to guard those same children, although not in a temerarious, or gross, manner.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm
You must be reading one of the arguments rather than the final summation, for that would mean all 3 families (that didn't have the baby monitor) are guilty of the same crime then and I didn't read about that. 
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Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: The role of The British tour operators in the MM case.
« Reply #72 on: August 23, 2016, 08:12:49 PM »
Let's look a few things which MW had no control over.
1. The adults making their own child care arrangements, which they discussed before they left the UK.
2. Other parents in the group left a child, who was reported as being unwell, alone.
3 The child Madeleine complained to her parents about being left alone, The parents ignored the child's concern and  left their children alone in an unlocked apartment-again.
4. The 'checking service' was a 'listening' service. so if a child had choked on their own vomit and died the checking would not have flagged that up- it didn't flag up an abduction in progress- now did it?
5. Kate had discussed her fears about leaving the kids alone, but left them anyway. I am trying to find blame for others but I just can't seem to find any. Note: the McCanns didn't leave their wallets or money in  the apartment...
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline Robittybob1

Re: The role of The British tour operators in the MM case.
« Reply #73 on: August 24, 2016, 01:54:36 AM »
..... I am trying to find blame for others but I just can't seem to find any. Note: the McCanns didn't leave their wallets or money in  the apartment...
Your points again:
Quote
1. The adults making their own child care arrangements, which they discussed before they left the UK.
- Staying in with the kids, except on the first night, doesn't seem like an option.
Quote
2. Other parents in the group left a child, who was reported as being unwell, alone.
- Who was that?  I seem to recall ROB and JT spending time with theirs.
Quote
3 The child Madeleine complained to her parents about being left alone, The parents ignored the child's concern and  left their children alone in an unlocked apartment-again.
- The next night the frequency of the visits was increased.
Quote
4. The 'checking service' was a 'listening' service. so if a child had choked on their own vomit and died the checking would not have flagged that up- it didn't flag up an abduction in progress- now did it?
What sort of checking could have prevented a determined abductor?
Quote
5. Kate had discussed her fears about leaving the kids alone, but left them anyway.
Increased frequency of checking implemented.



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Offline G-Unit

Re: The role of The British tour operators in the MM case.
« Reply #74 on: August 24, 2016, 07:22:59 AM »
Your points again: - Staying in with the kids, except on the first night, doesn't seem like an option.- Who was that?  I seem to recall ROB and JT spending time with theirs.- The next night the frequency of the visits was increased. What sort of checking could have prevented a determined abductor? Increased frequency of checking implemented.

They set out with no intention of staying in with their children, using the night creche or hiring a baby-sitter.

The Oldfield child wasn't right, she seemed to have the runs every night.

The O'Brien child was kept out of kids club because she wasn't well. The O'Briens did increase their checking intervals, Jane Tanner said.

If the McCanns increased theirs [to every 30 minutes] how often had they been checking previously?

There are many dangers involved in leaving children home alone, which doctors with experience of A & E would be aware of. I'm no doctor and I can list them! Leaving those patio doors open to that balcony was negligent no matter what the Portuguese said.



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