Are the balconies at OC a risk to toddlers?

[Angelo222]

The safety of the balconies at Ocean Club seems to have attracted some discussion among tourists with young children and especially those who were accommodated on the upper floors.  I must say looking at the design of the balcony with a railing atop a low wall, it certainly doesn't engenger much confidence.  My 2½-year-old grandson can climb out of his cot so a balcony wall like that would be no obstacle to him.



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[Robittybob1]

At what stage did OC put up those stickers?  Were they displayed prior to 3 May 2007?

Is this an actual quote from Goncalo Amaral? "They are being left to sleep alone, while the parents get drunk at social gatherings, falling from windows and balconies like ripe fruit, or drying inside vehicles without the according penal sanction occurring"  Is he listing things that have happened previously? http://gerrymccan-abuseofpower-humanrights.blogspot.co.nz/2010/07/jez-wilkins-and-bridget-odonnell-hoax.html
[That anonymous letter at the bottom of that article is mighty odd, and it even has the word "cover up" in it.]

This is taken from an article written by one of the OC guests and she doesn't mention these stickers.

Excitedly, we were shown to our apartments. Ours was on the fourth floor, overlooking a family and toddler pool, opposite a restaurant and bar called the Tapas. I worried about the height of the balcony. Should we ask for one on the ground floor? Was I a paranoid parent? Should I make a fuss, or just enjoy the view?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/dec/14/ukcrime.madeleinemccann

It seems to suggest the balcony was relatively low when the words: "I worried about the height of the balcony", are used.

[Robittybob1]

Am I in a minority when I say that I've never needed warning to lock my holiday accommodation any more than I have ever needed warning to lock my home?

None of that addresses the point about mobile children being left with access to a dangerous balcony anyway. I think there was a warning sticker on the patio doors about that also.

Where did the impetus for this comment come from in the first place G-unit?  "None of that addresses the point about mobile children being left with access to a dangerous balcony anyway."  Who made the point "about mobile children being left with access to a dangerous balcony" in the first place?
Do you know more than you are allowed to divulge about this case?  For that comment has the indications of quite serious behind the scenes discussion.

[G-Unit]

Where did the impetus for this comment come from in the first place G-unit?  "None of that addresses the point about mobile children being left with access to a dangerous balcony anyway."  Who made the point "about mobile children being left with access to a dangerous balcony" in the first place?
Do you know more than you are allowed to divulge about this case?  For that comment has the indications of quite serious behind the scenes discussion.

A few points raised!

1. I think it was pegasus who posted a pic showing the patio door sticker. With or without it the balcony wasn't safe for small children on their own. I think David Payne commented on this too.

2. It is purely my own sense that tells me not to leave mobile children in an unlocked apartment with easy access to a dangerous balcony. The height is immaterial because there was patio furniture to climb up on anyway.

[Robittybob1]

The safety warning sticker.  What date was this first installed at the apartments?

[Robittybob1]

Health and safety rules would have insisted on adequate warnings being displayed.  There seems to be a "Missing Child Procedure" so they might have also had a "Health and Safety Procedure" and we should see if the version used in 2007 is still available.  We should write to Mark Warner asking for a copy.

[misty]

That photo is not even from Block 5 IMO.

[mercury]

Health and safety rules would have insisted on adequate warnings being displayed.  There seems to be a "Missing Child Procedure" so they might have also had a "Health and Safety Procedure" and we should see if the version used in 2007 is still available.  We should write to Mark Warner asking for a copy.

Parental instinct and responsibility for safety of their kids should not be the responsibility of the health and safety bodies, are you having a larf? Unless all their holidaymakers are imbeciles, as I said, but yes, write to them, let us know what reply you get

[Robittybob1]

The safety warning sticker.  What date was this first installed at the apartments?

It seems to be the most unlikely thing one would bother to photograph whilst on holiday.

[G-Unit]

I repeat. No parent with an ounce of sense would let small children onto those balconies alone. Neither would they leave unsupervised children with access to those balconies. No warning stickers needed.

we would keep an eye and you know explain to them that they shouldn't be out on the balcony you know without an adult present. Err but obviously we tried to keep the err door shut when no-one was out on the balcony and err open if there's someone sat out there keeping an eye on them.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

[Robittybob1]

I repeat. No parent with an ounce of sense would let small children onto those balconies alone. Neither would they leave unsupervised children with access to those balconies. No warning stickers needed.

we would keep an eye and you know explain to them that they shouldn't be out on the balcony you know without an adult present. Err but obviously we tried to keep the err door shut when no-one was out on the balcony and err open if there's someone sat out there keeping an eye on them.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

If you were on the 5th floor would the parents always keep their patio door locked at night even though there was no external access to the patio?  A child could get up and sleep walk out through the unlocked door and climb the rail.  Sleepwalking is a strange phenomenon that is quite unpredictable.  Would you always have enough foresight to prevent an accident from it?
http://listverse.com/2013/06/07/10-terrifying-tales-of-sleepwalking/

Sleepwalking is more common in children than in adults. About 17% of 4-8 year olds experience sleepwalking, compared to 4 to 10% of adults. Stuart Miller was 8 years old when he had an accident while sleepwalking. One night, in September of 1993, Stuart began sleepwalking. He lived in a flat on the fourth floor of council housing, and that night, he fell from his bedroom window. The courts decided that Reading Borough Council, the owner of that block, was responsible, as they had failed to install windows that were childproof. The fall dealt severe damage to Stuart’s spine, and has left him wheelchair bound for life. After 7 years in the courts, he was awarded £1.35m ($2m) in damages.

[Alice Purjorick]

This is taken from an article written by one of the OC guests and she doesn't mention these stickers.https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/dec/14/ukcrime.madeleinemccann

It seems to suggest the balcony was relatively low when the words: "I worried about the height of the balcony", are used.

There is a Eurocode for handrail and balustrade heights.
For external the minimum height is 1100 mm.
Are you suggesting the building does not comply with the Eurocode? If so why are you suggesting it?

[Robittybob1]

There is a Eurocode for handrail and balustrade heights.
For external the minimum height is 1100 mm.
Are you suggesting the building does not comply with the Eurocode? If so why are you suggesting it?

Can you see any measurements? I can't.  It was Bridget O'Donnell who said ""I worried about the height of the balcony".  So maybe you need to ask her if she is "suggesting the building does not comply with the Eurocode?"
PS: Putting a measuring tape up against my body and imagining what a 1100 mm balustrade would be like and   it didn't feel low to me.  So I wonder what height it really is.

[G-Unit]

Here's the Payne's balcony, which would have been similar to O'Donnell's

[Robittybob1]

Here's the Payne's balcony, which would have been similar to O'Donnell's

1100 mm came up to the top of my hip bone. So that balcony looks lower than that, as it looks lower than the waist of "Fiona", but that is just from a visual analysis.  What would happen if it had been constructed at a lower than standard height?